Adam Khoo: The expats will rule Singapore

[tree nymph]

minnie2004:

Hi busymom, tree nymph and tamarind,


I agree it's not fair to compare Singapore with HK. HK is the most laissez faire city in the world and I guess I've been spoilt. Singapore needs to have more loyal and committed citizens like you guys to protect it from sometimes-hostile neighbors. And I admire the Singapore govt for taking good care of its citizens and in return, the strong support it receives from locals for most of its policies. Back in HK, almost every policy will receive criticism from oppositions and local people. I think Donald Tsang can't wait to be in Lee Hsien Loong's shoes.

It's one thing to treat its citizen right, and another to treat foreigners as second class. I'm not here to compete with locals for jobs or benefits. I gave up my good job in HK to be an SAHM so my DH can pursue his dreams here. Meanwhile, DH contributes to employment here by hiring locals. It's just that when I see something unfair I can't help but voice out. Of course, I can always choose to be like thousands of other PRs, who take whatever unfair policies imposed on them in silence.

If my DH knew what I'm doing here he'll definitely think I'm crazy. He'll ask: \"where do you think you are??\". The first thing he was told when he first arrived in Singapore was to watch his mouth. Hope KSP won't reveal my true identity to any govt related agencies

Aiyah Minnie! heheheee...

We are not bias against PRs! I think we welcome PRs and we welcome PRs to become citizens - so you can enjoy the citizen's benefits...

[tamarind]

Just for information :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimination

Discrimination is a sociological term referring to the treatment taken toward or against a person of a certain group in consideration based solely on class or category. Discrimination is the actual behavior towards another group. It involves excluding or restricting members of one group from opportunities that are available to other groups. The United Nations explains: \"Discriminatory behaviors take many forms, but they all involve some form of exclusion or rejection.\"

Refer to this page comparing the school fees that citizens and PRs pay :
http://www.ica.gov.sg/data/resources/docs/BenefitsPrivilegesRightsObligations_20080429.pdf

tree nymph:

We are not bias against PRs! I think we welcome PRs and we welcome PRs to become citizens - so you can enjoy the citizen's benefits...

Agree. I was born a PR So how can I be bias against PR ?

[toddles]

minnie2004:

If my DH knew what I'm doing here he'll definitely think I'm crazy. He'll ask: \"where do you think you are??\". The first thing he was told when he first arrived in Singapore was to watch his mouth. Hope KSP won't reveal my true identity to any govt related agencies

Don't worry... most times we over-estimate the \"police state\"-ness of Singapore. They are not as Big Brother as we give them credit for...

so in some ways, we unnecessarily self-censor...

[Parent1]

tamarind:

Just for information :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimination

tree nymph:

We are not bias against PRs! I think we welcome PRs and we welcome PRs to become citizens - so you can enjoy the citizen's benefits...

Agree. I was born a PR So how can I be bias against PR ?

Is hard to believe you if we listen to the sweeping statements & stereo-typing you made against PRs!

tamarind:

The PRs nowadays are not the same as our parents' generation. All my Malaysian colleagues have no intention of becoming citizens, or let their sons serve NS. The reason is because they want to earn money here, then retire back in Malaysia where they can live like kings. There are no official figures, but I believe that not many PRs actually become citizens.

tamarind:

Most PRs from China will eventually return, because the amount of money they earned here will enable them to live very comfortably back in China.

tamarind:

Most PRs will work in Singapore until they saved up enough to retire comfortably back in their home countries. By then, their kids would have completed university in Singapore, and will continue to work in Singapore as PRs. The old PRs bring all the money back to Malaysia, China, etc and live like kings, while their children PRs stay in Singapore and repeat the same cycle.

The only problem I have with PRs, is that when times are bad, do you think that they will stay back and help rebuild Singapore ?

tamarind:

Staying in Singapore to work does not mean \"giving back to society\". They are milking the benefits from our economy, earning high pay so that they can bring back the money to their own country and retire comfortably.

[minnie2004]

Totally agree Parent1. Indeed all these statements are filled with biases. These biases seem specifically aimed at fellow Asians from poorer countries.


There are plenty of Singaporeans working in HK due to the higher pay there. According to some headhunters I talked to, the pay is in general 30% lower in Singapore. And yet I’ve never heard of any HK people complaining them of "milking the benefits from our economy, earning high pay so that they can bring back the money to their own country and retire comfortably".

[peterch]

minnie2004:

Totally agree Parent1. Indeed all these statements are filled with biases. These biases seem specifically aimed at fellow Asians from poorer countries.


There are plenty of Singaporeans working in HK due to the higher pay there. According to some headhunters I talked to, the pay is in general 30% lower in Singapore. And yet I've never heard of any HK people complaining them of \"milking the benefits from our economy, earning high pay so that they can bring back the money to their own country and retire comfortably\".

I know quite a few bakers who work in Jakarta, Indonesia as the pay there is higher...... With Singapore Dollars salary and cost of living in Rupiah I think they are the who could live like king there in Jakarta :celebrate:

[Cheval]

I support Parent1 and minnie2004. There's a long way to go for Singapore to become a civil society. Plus, from what I observe around me, Asians having studied in Western countries rarely learn the human values, as in French: Liberty, Equality and Fraternity. Lack of respect is common. Sorry to tell the harsh truth but truth is truth.


On the other hand, I am not saying Singapore is particularly worse than elsewhere in Asia. I just mean that there is much room to improve.

tree nymph:

Cheval:

Hi 'tree nymph', I'd just remind you that your sample is pretty small and most of all your classmates are not PRs, at least for the time being. Also, it seems that the government is tightening PR issuing.

Hi Cheval,

yes, my sample size is pretty small, but if we are able to get a bigger number, the percentage will not be too far off, don't you agree?

Cannot agree lah, sorry! :lol:

In fact, it's quite different for different groups of people. If you are highly skilled, it's easy to get PR. Otherwise, just a different story.

[tree nymph]

Cheval:

I support Parent1 and minnie2004. There's a long way to go for Singapore to become a civil society. Plus, from what I observe around me, Asians having studied in Western countries rarely learn the human values, as in French: Liberty, Equality and Fraternity. Lack of respect is common. Sorry to tell the harsh truth but truth is truth.


On the other hand, I am not saying Singapore is particularly worse than elsewhere in Asia. I just mean that there is much room to improve.

tree nymph:

[quote=\"Cheval\"]Hi 'tree nymph', I'd just remind you that your sample is pretty small and most of all your classmates are not PRs, at least for the time being. Also, it seems that the government is tightening PR issuing.

Hi Cheval,

yes, my sample size is pretty small, but if we are able to get a bigger number, the percentage will not be too far off, don't you agree?

Cannot agree lah, sorry! :lol:

In fact, it's quite different for different groups of people. If you are highly skilled, it's easy to get PR. Otherwise, just a different story.[/quote]No leh, my sample size is not about how easy to get PRs. But my sample size tell me that MAJORITY of the PRs still harbour hopes of going back to their home country. But you are right lah, different for different groups of people.

For the Angmohs, they usually will want to go back to their home country after their stint in Singapore. so they don't even bother to apply for PR, most are holding employment pass. I think that is quite logical, given the good welfare benefits etc in their home country...

[minnie2004]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GAHFrLAxzM&feature=fvst


John Lennon may be idealistic and unrealistic but isn't that the world we all long to be in? :hugs:

[ChiefKiasu]

Cheval:

I support Parent1 and minnie2004. There's a long way to go for Singapore to become a civil society. Plus, from what I observe around me, Asians having studied in Western countries rarely learn the human values, as in French: Liberty, Equality and Fraternity. Lack of respect is common. Sorry to tell the harsh truth but truth is truth...

In my opinion, Asians give too much credit to the West for upholding the principles of \"Liberty, Equality and Fraternity\". Where were these principles when http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight-Nation_Alliance came into China to force it to open up to their trade demands? And do you know why most Canadians speak French while the Americans speak English, although we all know that the Americas used to belong to the natives - the Indians? Tell the Indians that it was all for \"Liberty, Equality and Fraternity\".

In the years I spent in the US as a student, I do get occasional yells from drunk Americans (at least I hope they were drunk) honking their cars whizzing by me and telling me to go home. I believe that experience is somewhat similar to what some of the PRs who have lately come to our community are feeling from all the seemingly negative pressure put on them recently to give citizens priority and more benefits.

The fact is, in most competitions, there is always the home ground advantage. The home team will always be given the best chance and motivation to win. But the home team does not always win, even if the home ground advantage does skew the results to the home team. This is true regardless of whether we are an Asian or Western country.

To all PRs out there looking for a place in our society, Singapore welcomes you, as long as you add positively to our country. Such is the measure of our pragmatism. But you should not feel that you are discriminated against, for this rule is applied not only on you, but on all citizens in the country. We Singaporeans have been brought up believing that there is no place in Singapore for the lazy and the incompetent. We have been told, time and again, that our country's only resource is US, the people, and the moment we slack we will go back to being a back-water kampung in the stream. Most of our parents and ourselves have burnt ourselves up running the Singapore Marathon, where the only possible direction is forward, and any pause or rest we take is but an opportunity for others to overtake us.

If you are for Singapore, run with us as a citizen. If you are just here for the ride, enjoy the ride, but do not say we are far from being a \"civil society\". That's because, notwithstanding the smallness of our country, we are far more cosmopolitan and tolerant of foreigners and religions than the more homogeneous countries in the world. It is, after all, in our pledge as citizens of our country.