Adam Khoo: The expats will rule Singapore

[gajidouma]

Well said, everyone.


I just hope my kids will understand:

the earth is round;
competition is global;
nobody owes you a living;
learn to appreciate diversity;
........... and always be grateful. :celebrate:

[minnie2004]

Cheval:

Yes things have changed a lot in HK. I remember very clearly my first visit to HK in 1988. Most of the time shop assistants turned around when I spoke to them in Mandarin. One time a guy waved his hand showing me the door. After that I started to speak English and things became OK. Another problem came: some people had difficulty in English, including a policeman I approached to ask the road.

It's true HK people are highly adaptable. So many are learning mandarin and ignoring Eng that their Eng. standards are falling sharply. Since the Chinese govt relaxed the visa requirement for Chinese to enter HK in 2003, the no. of mainland tourists jumped exponentially. If you walk in TST (tsim sha tsui), you'd think you're in China.

Cheval:

In general, the French have a mixed feeling toward English: proud of the French language and shameful of their low English level at the time. Also, I think if people start with \"Sorry do you speak English?\" things may get better. Actually it is not that polite to start to speak a different language to a local thinking that he/she should understand and reply you in your language.
.

This reminds me of the story one of my French colleagues told me. When he was studying in the U.S. for his graduate degree, he started a conversation with a classmate in Eng. After he's done talking, his classmate told him he doesn't speak French :laugh:

Cheval:

Please do not take it wrong: we are not accusing Singapore in whatever way. The so-called financial benefits are not big deal. What I deplore myself, maybe Minnie included, is the discriminatory policies of the government as well as the mindset of some, finding all this normal.

Totally agreed. I could care less about the little govt handouts. It's the embedded spirit of discrimination I don't feel comfortable with. Maybe we lived in more liberal places before and take certain things for granted.

[minnie2004]

tree nymph:

Minnie,
you don't have to stay in Malaysia to realize that Singapore is actually quite a OK place to stay lah. You said it all yourself in your post!

Haha, i was kidding when I said i should live in Malaysia. There's no way I would do that. Yes, Singapore is a nice place to live, especially if you have kids. Nowadays whenever I go back to HK, my allergy (running nose, teary eyes etc) will come back. HK is a place to make $$ though and good place for singles

[tree nymph]

Cheval:

If this is the case, HK may be the most European city in Asia. In France (that I know well), foreigners have ALL the benefits except the right to vote. But the latter issue has been raised many times since Mitterand. In Asia, we often take differentiation or even discrimination for granted. Several years ago, I read in the Staff Manual of A*STAR IME (Institute of Microelectronics) that PhDs from US/Europe/Japan are entitled to a housing subsidy of $2500/month and those PhD from China and India for $1500 (or $700?). Locals returning home with a PhD have nothing. Now things have changed, generally little or no more housing subsidy is given to anyone. But this does not mean that differentiation is becoming less. All the contrary. Just look at the new policies on medical care and university fees.

wah! no wonder us citizens got angry - discrimination of our own! No housing subsidies for Locals returning home with a PhD!

But We do understand, don't we, that we like to attract the brains to Singapore. But to do this to our own locally-breed PhD - they will be enticed to go overseas. So now the policy is to encourage these foreign Brains to convert to Citizens.

[tree nymph]

Cheval:

tree nymph:

I went to France. And since I can't speak French, I spoke English to the people I meet. MOST turned their noses at me and walked away. Some who bothered to answer me, told me off saying they do not like to speak English and that I should speak French. After getting this kind of treatment for my first few days there, I decided to speak in Mandarin during the first encounter. You know what happened? They obviously can't speak Mandarin so they asked me if I can speak English and they then proceeded to treat me nicely....

In general, the French have a mixed feeling toward English: proud of the French language and shameful of their low English level at the time. Also, I think if people start with \"Sorry do you speak English?\" things may get better. Actually it is not that polite to start to speak a different language to a local thinking that he/she should understand and reply you in your language.

tree nymph:

Cheval,
Why do you apply to become citizen?

3 reasons: (1) I consider myself too straight, not suitable to make a career in the fast changing China. (2) Also, I find life here more comfortable -- pay relatively high. (3) Singapore is a safe place, which is good for kids.

I am grateful for all you guys taking part in the discussions. This will definitely help understand each other better. In my work and private life, we get along well with locals. That's why we choose to stay. BTW, my 2 kids a all born here; China is a place to visit, but only here is their home.
:celebrate: [/i]

Hi Cheval,
I did that, asking the locals:\" Do you speak English?\" and they turned their back to me. That's because I'm still using English mah. However, when I start any conversation in Mandarin first, they will ask me if I can speak English.

To the French, isn't English a different language to them? So IF i can't speak French, how do you propose I converse with them?? :? Besides, I really don't look like an angmoh, I'm a pure breed Chinese, don't you think that the locals should not assume that I can speak French right? So if you go to India, you will have to converse with the local in Tamil?

Great to have you join us!

:celebrate:

[tree nymph]

gajidouma:

Well said, everyone.


I just hope my kids will understand:

the earth is round;
competition is global;
nobody owes you a living;
learn to appreciate diversity;
........... and always be grateful. :celebrate:

:goodpost:

i like... :love:

[minnie2004]

Busymom:

minnie2004:

What often scares me here, is this \"we against the world\" mentality, this fundamental anti-foreigner (esp. from less developed countries) sentiment among its people.

Hi minnie2004

I am sorry to hear that you feel this way. I hope it is just an impression that you get after reading recent news on the papers about the need to distinguish the benefits of citizens and PRs, rather than some real time discriminations that either yourself or people you know have met while here. From memory, I don't recall such topics ever been discussed here and there were indeed very little difference in the benefits enjoyed by a citizen and a PR in the past. However, things have changed drastically in the last few years in Singapore, and if the government does not address this issue now, there could be some real social issues in the future.

In fact it was just a feeling I had after reading Chief's post. He used a lot of \"we Singaporeans\", \"us Singaporeans\", conveying a strong \"we against the world\" message. Not just him, the frequency these phrases appear in other media is higher than I'm used to. In real life however, I don't feel like an outsider and have no problem getting along with locals.

BTW, i hope Chief won't be mad at me and black-list me from KSP

Busymom:

I visited Hong Kong a few times when it was still a British colony. I am not a Cantonese and while I could understand the dialect, my pronunication is not superb. I was told specifically that I should not speak Mandarin when I went shopping, as otherwise, I would be deemed as a Mainland Chinese and would receive second class treatment from the shop assistants. It was true, and I ended up using English instead. Well, if that is not a discrimination against non-angmoh foreigners or Mainland Chinese, then I do not know what is. Again, it can't be that the entire Hong Kong population has that kind of attitude. Similarly, there are bound to be some people out there who are anti-foreigners in Singapore, but surprisingly, I haven't met any in all my years here (and mind you, I am not that young!)

It's quite sad that mainland Chinese are still being looked down upon especially in places dominated by the Chinese. Even in Singapore, if I speak in mandarin to people such as taxi drivers, I'd be considered a mainland Chinese (or a China national, as they're being called here) as I don't have a hokkien accent . They'll ask me if I'm from China. When I say I'm from HK, their attitude would change and start chatting with me in Cantonese. As a Chinese, I think it's sick to discriminate people of your own race. Hopefully things will change for the better as China becomes more developed, both economically and culturally. In principal, I'm against discrimination of any kind, including race, religion, sexuality, profession, education, net asset value etc etc.

[tree nymph]

Minnie,


I’ve been asked by a lot of people if I’m a Chinese from China. Told them that my grandparents were. Well, some still don’t believe me while others just tell me that i sounded different.

Actually, we don’t discriminate the Chinese. But the Chinese reputation is spolit by a small number of Dragon Ladies. They created headlines for the wrong reasons. I think that’s where the ‘looking down’ came about. I think the chinese lady cleaning our office toilets here is doing a fantastic job and we have even written letters to her boss singing her praises!

[csc]

tree nymph:

Actually, we don't discriminate the Chinese. But the Chinese reputation is spolit by a small number of Dragon Ladies. They created headlines for the wrong reasons. I think that's where the 'looking down' came about. I think the chinese lady cleaning our office toilets here is doing a fantastic job and we have even written letters to her boss singing her praises!

You are so right!

I just realised my children's Chinese tutor is from Shanghai and their piano teacher is from Canton.

Both have excellent work ethics. Very thankful for them. :lol:

[minnie2004]

csc:

tree nymph:

Actually, we don't discriminate the Chinese. But the Chinese reputation is spolit by a small number of Dragon Ladies. They created headlines for the wrong reasons. I think that's where the 'looking down' came about. I think the chinese lady cleaning our office toilets here is doing a fantastic job and we have even written letters to her boss singing her praises!

You are so right!

I just realised my children's Chinese tutor is from Shanghai and their piano teacher is from Canton.

Both have excellent work ethics. Very thankful for them. :lol:

The lady who does my facial is also from china. She used to be a lawyer in China!! My masseur is also from China. She was a TCM doctor there