School Placement Exercise for returning S'porean children

[mommyNg]

hoskins8h:

My own observation so far suggests that SPERS Sec-1 postings have been better than parent's expectations based on performance at overseas school. I gather that all sec schools have to set aside a certain percentage for students returning at Sec 1. Dont know if there's this quota for entry at higher years. Would suggest to mommyNg to observe the situation as SPERS first started for 2007 intake and the observed statistics might change.

Pardon my blurness... how to observe the situation for SPERS? Through grapevine or ask MOE? :?

It's heartening to know that most kids can adapt pretty well to Singapore education system despite being away for quite a while!

Thanks hoskins8h for sharing!!!

[mommyNg]

Another question… did any of you (or your friends) brought your child back for GEP screening/selection, and perhaps successfully get into the programme? I remember somewhere in this forum someone mentioned they brought their kid back for GEP screening, passed, but didn’t get through the selection round.

[hoskins8h]

mommyNg:

[

Pardon my blurness... how to observe the situation for SPERS? Through grapevine or ask MOE?

Just through the gravevine. MOE is generally tight lipped about information. I asked what are the odds of getting first choice, and they read the standard text from MOE website , something like \"depends on vacancies and applicants to particular school\". So why have a list? Again standard website text ... \"child assessed to be on par with the students in the school\". I guess the computer can only accept 6 choices. Methinks they want to avoid having to explain things to some who may inevitably be unhappy.

[hoskins8h]

mommyNg:

Another question.... did any of you (or your friends) brought your child back for GEP screening/selection, and perhaps successfully get into the programme? I remember somewhere in this forum someone mentioned they brought their kid back for GEP screening, passed, but didn't get through the selection round.

GEP screening is useful because I think they select 8% (or is 6%?) after the first round. It gives information about where the child stands with respect to the Singapore student population. Most overseas parents are uncertain about where the child is compared with local standards.
In your case it is extra useful if your child passes the first stage, the PSLE strategy maybe worthwhile because 250 is about the top 10%. I think latest you can come back is P5. If child is in the Singapore International School HK, MOE conducts GEP first round test in the school, but you will have to be in Singapore for the second round. I think you have to write in by June for other places (see website). If child makes it to GEP and you decide to return, there are privileges, such as higher odds of getting into IP through DSA and GEP scholarship for Independent school. But I think child has to go through GEP to get these advantages; GEP bragging rights dont count.

If you decide to return, another way to boost the odds is to get exemption from Chinese, which the school and MOE are likely to give if you give good reason even if the child is doing well in Chinese, eg away from Singapore, dont speak Chinese at home, no Singapore style tuition available, hence child at disadvantage etc. Child should still take MT lessons and keep up, since NYGH is SAP school and will require a standard like A* in normal Chinese. No need to be discouraged by this requirement as about 80% of the national cohort gets A/A* in Chinese. Once you're in the school, you can get feedback as to whether child meets the Chinese standard to get into NYGH even though not taking PSLE Chinese. I know a case where returnee exempted Chinese, got posted to IP school, and appealed and got into HCI. Trick is have evidence that the child is capable of handling Higher Chinese and the reason for exemption is that the child needs time to catch up to local standards since at disadvantage without the local support system (e.g. tuition, daily environment). Besides having one less subject to mug, my feeling is that there is more room to improve in other subjects. About 44% of students get A/A* for Eng, Math, Sci whereas it's 80% for Chinese; which means there is more room to improve for other subjects. So even if you get 100% for Chinese, the average raw score for Chinese is likely to be high and hence Chinese T-score may not be that high. Must qualify that this is my speculation and a lot depends on the child's Chinese standard.

[xxjustakidxx]

hoskins8h:

GEP screening is useful because I think they select 8% (or is 6%?) after the first round. It gives information about where the child stands with respect to the Singapore student population. Most overseas parents are uncertain about where the child is compared with local standards.

In your case it is extra useful if your child passes the first stage, the PSLE strategy maybe worthwhile because 250 is about the top 10%. I think latest you can come back is P5. If child is in the Singapore International School HK, MOE conducts GEP first round test in the school, but you will have to be in Singapore for the second round. I think you have to write in by June for other places (see website). If child makes it to GEP and you decide to return, there are privileges, such as higher odds of getting into IP through DSA and GEP scholarship for Independent school. But I think child has to go through GEP to get these advantages; GEP bragging rights dont count.

If you decide to return, another way to boost the odds is to get exemption from Chinese, which the school and MOE are likely to give if you give good reason even if the child is doing well in Chinese, eg away from Singapore, dont speak Chinese at home, no Singapore style tuition available, hence child at disadvantage etc. Child should still take MT lessons and keep up, since NYGH is SAP school and will require a standard like A* in normal Chinese. No need to be discouraged by this requirement as about 80% of the national cohort gets A/A* in Chinese. Once you're in the school, you can get feedback as to whether child meets the Chinese standard to get into NYGH even though not taking PSLE Chinese. I know a case where returnee exempted Chinese, got posted to IP school, and appealed and got into HCI. Trick is have evidence that the child is capable of handling Higher Chinese and the reason for exemption is that the child needs time to catch up to local standards since at disadvantage without the local support system (e.g. tuition, daily environment). Besides having one less subject to mug, my feeling is that there is more room to improve in other subjects. About 44% of students get A/A* for Eng, Math, Sci whereas it's 80% for Chinese; which means there is more room to improve for other subjects. So even if you get 100% for Chinese, the average raw score for Chinese is likely to be high and hence Chinese T-score may not be that high. Must qualify that this is my speculation and a lot depends on the child's Chinese standard.

Correction: A is 25 percent of each cohort.

[hoskins8h]

xxjustakidxx:

Correction: A is 25 percent of each cohort.

For Eng, Math, Sci, 25% for A sounds correct, means about 20% for A*; in line with a conversation I had with a teacher.
Just to clarify, when I mentioned 44% for A/A* means 44% got A or better. For some reason, the info I gleaned from the \"official\" data do not break down between A and A*.

[mommyNg]

If, as you mentioned, about 44% of students get A/A* for Eng, Math, Sci but it is 80% for Chinese, this means it is easier to get an A/A* for Chinese?? I suppose this means 80% of those students taking Chinese, or does that mean the whole cohort.


I thought there were some discussions in another thread saying that an A in Chinese is worth more in terms of T-score than an A in, say, Math or Eng? Hence, if one is pretty good in Chinese, then he/she should take Chinese (and not exemption) cos’ he/she will have a greater chance of getting a higher PSLE T-score?

[hoskins8h]

mommyNg:

If, as you mentioned, about 44% of students get A/A* for Eng, Math, Sci but it is 80% for Chinese, this means it is easier to get an A/A* for Chinese?? I suppose this means 80% of those students taking Chinese, or does that mean the whole cohort.


I thought there were some discussions in another thread saying that an A in Chinese is worth more in terms of T-score than an A in, say, Math or Eng? Hence, if one is pretty good in Chinese, then he/she should take Chinese (and not exemption) cos' he/she will have a greater chance of getting a higher PSLE T-score?

Yes about 80% of students taking Chinese (other MT similar) get A/A*. As far as I know, all subjects are equally weighted even though Eng and MT are marked upon 200 marks. Officially MOE says that with exemption, T-score is adjusted so that student is \"neither disadvantaged or advantaged\", so my guess is that with exemption, T-score is equally weighted based on 3 subjects. If that is correct, then one should exempt based on whether Chinese T-score is likely to be above or below the average of the other 3 subjects.

My analysis suggests that exemption is likely to be better because there is \"more room to improve\" in the other non-MT subjects as average subject raw scores are likely to be lower. 85% marks for MT is likely to be a lower T-score than an 85% for other subjects.

Having said that, most parents want our children to learn Chinese well and exemption from PSLE may affect the learning attitude. I overcome this by telling my child that exemption is only for PSLE and it is Higher Chinese in secondary school. The point being that PSLE Chinese affects T-score and streaming, whilst HCL at O level is a pass/fail requirement for local university and does not affect A level score.

If I may guess, you're probably not based in Asia, so having access to Chinese education at the required level may prove difficult overseas and the decision to exempt may come naturally.

[hoskins8h]

hoskins8h:

... As far as I know, all subjects are equally weighted ...

News today that MOE considering lowering the weightage of Mother Tongue. It till take a few years before they decide and implement. Article also mentions that the current weighting for MT is 25%, so it is equally weighted.
I've gathered enough info to be convinced that this is so, because I too was puzzled when I returned to Singapore and found out that Eng and MT was marked upon 200 marks. Thought things were like they were back in my time when the 2 languages were double weighted.

http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/Singapore/Story/STIStory_517143.html

[turquoise]

hoskins8h, if you are exempted from CL at PSLE, can you take HCL in Secondary School? I’m wondering because I know if you are exempted from CL at PSLE due to a learning disability, you will not be permitted to take HCL nor 3rd language in Secondary School. Is it different for returning overseas students?