Any Updates As To When PSLE T-Scores Will Be Scrapped?

[hquek]

galaxyraider:

I have to disagree with this. Affiliation is fair because it is normal to put your family (a.k.a. your own students) before helping others. This is because some students are late bloomers and they should not be penalized just because they couldn't get a high score in primary school.

Anyway, even in working world, \"affiliation\" does exist. Your chance to get a job in a particular company is sometimes affected by your \"affiliation\" (a.k.a. internal referral). It's unfair, but it's real.

It's fair only when it's private money. But schools take taxpayers money. I would wonder why I am paying for other people's privileges?

[galaxyraider]

pirate:

ryka:

My question is where the student go if ALL (2nd, 3rd, 4th,...) his/her choices school has been fully subscribed?

If I have 4-5 points AL, naturally I will pick all the best/popular schools..
These schools may have been fully subscribed.
I predict this kind of scenario may happen.

Probably the same place as somebody with a T-score of 230 who put 1st choice NYGH, 2nd choice RGS, 3rd choice MGS, 4th choice Dunman High IP, 5th choice St Nicks IP and 6th choice SCGS. :evil:

Now that MOE has told you how the system is going to work, why would you want to go and do something stupid like that? :scratchhead:

Not everyone has the same choices of schools, so it might still work. It doesn't mean all 4-pointers will put RI as their top choice.

[floppy]

hquek:

It's fair only when it's private money. But schools take taxpayers money. I would wonder why I am paying for other people's privileges?

By this argument, you have just validated the logic for affiliation.

Affiliated schools are not fully funded by taxpayers money as they are independent or government aided schools.

Refer to http://www.kiasuparents.com/kiasu/content/choosing-primary-school-singapore:
\"These are schools which has a significant part of their funds coming from the Singapore government. These funds are supplemented from other private sources such as fund-raising activities. Many of these schools form part of a group of schools that cover from Primary up to Junior College and even tertiary education. Such schools maintain a certain level of autonomy over how they operate. For example, they can choose to offer class sizes that are different from that recommended by MOE. Some parents prefer these schools because of their flexibility and affiliation to a certain brand of education.\"

[hquek]

floppy:

hquek:

It's fair only when it's private money. But schools take taxpayers money. I would wonder why I am paying for other people's privileges?

By this argument, you have just validated the logic for affiliation.

Affiliated schools are not fully funded by taxpayers money as they are independent or government aided schools.

Refer to http://www.kiasuparents.com/kiasu/content/choosing-primary-school-singapore:
\"These are schools which has a significant part of their funds coming from the Singapore government. These funds are supplemented from other private sources such as fund-raising activities. Many of these schools form part of a group of schools that cover from Primary up to Junior College and even tertiary education. Such schools maintain a certain level of autonomy over how they operate. For example, they can choose to offer class sizes that are different from that recommended by MOE. Some parents prefer these schools because of their flexibility and affiliation to a certain brand of education.\"

unless they are independent, they still take monies from govt, no?

[Mr.025413Clumsy]

galaxyraider:

I have to disagree with this. Affiliation is fair because it is normal to put your family (a.k.a. your own students) before helping others. This is because some students are late bloomers and they should not be penalized just because they couldn't get a high score in primary school.


Anyway, even in working world, \"affiliation\" does exist. Your chance to get a job in a particular company is sometimes affected by your \"affiliation\" (a.k.a. internal referral). It's unfair, but it's real.

That's contradictory. If you put your family first before helping others than for those others without affiliation, how is it fair? It's only fair if everyone (family or not) has an equal opportunity to get into a school.

The only deciding factors should be:

1. Do you have an existing sibling who is currnetly studying in that school (since this makes it easier for families to manage all their children in one school); and

2. Do you live closeby to the school (since this makes it easier for families to send their children to the school and for school activities etc.).

Everything else should not matter. The concept of PVs etc. arose because people are clamoring to get into schools where they do not necessarily satisfy #1 and/or #2 above.

Just my 2cents.

[floppy]

hquek:

floppy:

[quote=\"hquek\"]

It's fair only when it's private money. But schools take taxpayers money. I would wonder why I am paying for other people's privileges?

By this argument, you have just validated the logic for affiliation.

Affiliated schools are not fully funded by taxpayers money as they are independent or government aided schools.

Refer to http://www.kiasuparents.com/kiasu/content/choosing-primary-school-singapore:
\"These are schools which has a significant part of their funds coming from the Singapore government. These funds are supplemented from other private sources such as fund-raising activities. Many of these schools form part of a group of schools that cover from Primary up to Junior College and even tertiary education. Such schools maintain a certain level of autonomy over how they operate. For example, they can choose to offer class sizes that are different from that recommended by MOE. Some parents prefer these schools because of their flexibility and affiliation to a certain brand of education.\"

unless they are independent, they still take monies from govt, no?[/quote]1. Some money from the G, members of the public gets in.
2. Some money from the clans/churches/alumni, members of the clans/churches/alumni get in. Given that S1 posting is mainly meritocratic, ensuring some from P flows to S is the minor concession.

The problem is, most of these schools are either well funded or well established to do away with 1. Unless you are favoring a future of independent and private schools (which will be a true elitist system), it is a good compromise to keep them in the current frame.

[SpartanMum]

Zappy:

SpartanMum:

The anxiety, confusion and I daresay, even fear is palpable.


4A1 is similar to 4Astar. How many 4Astars are there in each cohort? I believe that it won't be that many. So competition for top schools in the 4 points category may be less intense than 5 or 6 points which I think will be the most intense when it comes to the top schools. This is where the non-citizens will really bear the full brunt...sad but true.

\"MOE explained that the upper ranges are narrower as majority of pupils do well for PSLE. On average, about half the cohort will score AL4 or better. Finer bands at the top will help to differentiate students at these levels... \"

Source: http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/e ... e-says-moe

So, if half the students are scoring this AL4, I don't think that competition for the 4 points category may necessarily be less intense.

Zappy, I meant total of 4 points ( i.e. AL1 in all subjects) ...not AL4 in each subject which is about the average we are told.
I believe the competition won't be in the category where the total points is 4 or less becos I believe there won't be that many of these. It will be likely in the 5-7 category that the competition to get into elite schools will be intense.

I believe there will be some sort of internal simulation...it makes a lot of sense. MOE will definitely want to get a sense of how their new system works and I think it should be quite easily done. Perhaps they have already done it based on previous batch results and their respective S1 posting choices? I certainly hope so - that would be most reassuring.

Just realised the new system also further disadvantages top students who don't take Chinese as a second language as they are very limited in the 'elite' schools they can apply too. All the SAP schools (many of which are elite schools - e.g. HCI, NYGH, Dunman High, Catholic Hi, CHIJ St Nicks, RV High) are out for the non- Chinese MTL students. I don't know if this is also going to bring about a difference in the racial mix in schools like RI, RGS, ACSI, VS, Cedar, NJC, TJC, SCGS and SJI.

For example, if I am a Tamil girl, I would literally have only 4 top IP schools that I could apply to and I might not get into any of them if I get my choices 'wrong'. None of the schools have affliation advantage.
If I am Chinese, I will have 9 choices. 3 of these schools also have affiliation advantage.

In the previous system where order of choice doesn't matter, all the Tamil student needs to do is to get a score within the COP. Now even with good points if she puts the school she qualifies for as 4th choice she may not get in as it is only her 4th choice. And she doesn't have a 5th nor 6th choice IP school to fall back on.
:?

[lee_yl]

From what I see right now, out of 100 votes, only 8 think that the new banding will help to reduce PSLE stress. I am not sure how the govt conducted the survey before announcing and implementing the new banding system with balloting and how they ascertain that the majority of the parents welcome these changes.

[pirate]

phtthp:

zephyrfei:

I strongly suggest MOE to run simulation, start from 2016 PSLE. Request the students to hand in 6 choices of school. And later calculate the percentile of those got ballot out of all their 6 choices. Then compare his score to the highest score from the school he landed, and the lowest score from his choice. I believe the result will be shocking!

Yes, should start doing parallel run, starting with this year batch of 2016 P6 students, to provide vital info to public -

- What is the AL cut off point like, to enter each IP school, and also to enter all O level schools, including both O level and N level stream ?

- how many unlucky students are balloted out of popular IP schools, & out of popular O level schools ?

For these students balloted out : what are their AL score, like ?

- for the unlucky P6 students balloted out, in the end which secondary schools did they end up in, or get posted to ?

How great is the difference, in terms of AL score difference, between their last #6 choice, vs. The school that they got eventually posted to ?

- compare the before & after implementation results :
That is, under current T-score system and under the new AL score system :
Do the second Tier secondary schools, have a better quality of intake students Under AL vs. t-score ?


Start the rehearsal from 2016 until 2020 (for 5 years), so as to prepare parents and students mentally, for what is to come, in 2021.
See what kind of unexpected glitches or shocking results, may surface !

MOE already has the raw PSLE scores and secondary school selection choices of the current and previous batches of students. I seriously doubt that it took them years (how many again?) to come up with the AL bands etc without running those numbers through the computer to see what is the likely outcome.

[Mr.025413Clumsy]

lee_yl:

From what I see right now, out of 100 votes, only 8 think that the new banding will help to reduce PSLE stress. I am not sure how the govt conducted the survey before announcing and implementing the new banding system with balloting and how they ascertain that the majority of the parents welcome these changes.

Ok, so 8 folks here are from MOE