Networking Group - JCs General
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Sieg:
Don't think JAE-JC cohort represents the entire top 25%. At most, they are amongst the top 11-25%, with some top 5-10% in IPJCs and top non-IP JC like NYJC.
I believe many sgp parents who have kids with L1R5 up to 20 (which should translate to top 25% in the cohort?) dream of them holding degrees. If you were a low-income earner, you'd wish your kids can break your family's poverty cycle. If you were a graduate, you'd want your kids to be at least at par with you in terms of qualification. Holding a degree is also a form of self-actualization apart for practical reasons. If you have the confidence to succeed, you won't stop pursuing a degree just so that the job market won't be flooded with grads.jetsetter:
You rather have the whole job market flooded with many uni grads?
Don't see it as being elitist. Poly grads can still rejoin the uni pathway. This alternative is actually better for certain groups of kids who find it tough to pass GP and/or MT. 勉强读A水准是没有幸福的！
Besides the shorter route for JC, cost is also a factor. JC fees will cost approx $30 x 2yrs = $720 while poly will cost approx $2700 x 3 yrs = $8100. If one could reach the same uni pathway eventually, it's a lot of savings on time and cost to choose JC.
Someone posted in a forum that the 2015 cohort of IJC had achieved 93% pass in GP. It may not be as 'mianqiang' as you think but rather these students in lower tier JC are pinning hopes for themselves.
I expressed my reservations because I've always held that today's 15-20 pointers were roughly yesteryears' 20-25 pointers (when the top 1-10% were part of the O level bellcurve) who were streamed to 3-yr A level institutes instead of 2-yr JCs.
Somehow, after the top 10% were sieved out, this group of late bloomers found themselves gaining admission to 2-yr JCs and given the opportunity to take the \"murderous\" A levels in 18 months (not 24 months btw) and complete PW in JC1.
I'm not sure if they can withstand the rigors of A levels because even single-digit pointers in top IPJCs have to slog like mad for H2s and the precarious GP!
IJC's 93% pass in GP was commendable, but were their passes good enough to qualify for NUS/NTU/SMU or any of the 3 new unis? How long did the 93% secure a pass in GP? 18 months or 30 months (i.e. retention)? What's the point if your pass cannot get you into any local uni?
Anyway, take heart that the merger won't deny uni-aspirants/late bloomers/strugglers alike - regardless of household income - from joining the 2-yr A level programme so long as they hit L1R5 20 points or lower. They are merely migrated to another A level brick and mortar centre to help MOE optimise resources. They sure can still fulfil the dreams of their parents, though I don't think that's a good reason! Never let our DC be the victims of our unfulfilled or unrealistic ambitions. -
jetsetter:
Don't think JAE-JC cohort represents the entire top 25%. At most, they are amongst the top 11-25%, with some top 5-10% in IPJCs and top non-IP JC like NYJC.
I believe many sgp parents who have kids with L1R5 up to 20 (which should translate to top 25% in the cohort?) dream of them holding degrees. If you were a low-income earner, you'd wish your kids can break your family's poverty cycle. If you were a graduate, you'd want your kids to be at least at par with you in terms of qualification. Holding a degree is also a form of self-actualization apart for practical reasons. If you have the confidence to succeed, you won't stop pursuing a degree just so that the job market won't be flooded with grads.Sieg:
[quote=\"jetsetter\"]
You rather have the whole job market flooded with many uni grads?
Don't see it as being elitist. Poly grads can still rejoin the uni pathway. This alternative is actually better for certain groups of kids who find it tough to pass GP and/or MT. 勉强读A水准是没有幸福的！
Besides the shorter route for JC, cost is also a factor. JC fees will cost approx $30 x 2yrs = $720 while poly will cost approx $2700 x 3 yrs = $8100. If one could reach the same uni pathway eventually, it's a lot of savings on time and cost to choose JC.
Someone posted in a forum that the 2015 cohort of IJC had achieved 93% pass in GP. It may not be as 'mianqiang' as you think but rather these students in lower tier JC are pinning hopes for themselves.
I expressed my reservations because I've always held that today's 15-20 pointers were roughly yesteryears' 20-25 pointers (when the top 1-10% were part of the O level bellcurve) who were streamed to 3-yr A level institutes instead of 2-yr JCs.
In the 80s, we lack technologies, resources and good english environment to pursue a 2 yr JC course as 20-25 pointers. Kids these days are much smarter and computer savvy. They are able to tap lots of information from internet and are trained on argumentative writing at O levels.
Somehow, after the top 10% were sieved out, this group of late bloomers found themselves gaining admission to 2-yr JCs and given the opportunity to take the \"murderous\" A levels in 18 months (not 24 months btw) and complete PW in JC1.
True but somehow from friends and relatives' A level kids' results, all are able to outperform those of their 'forefathers' so far although some have to repeat a year in JC.
I'm not sure if they can withstand the rigors of A levels because even single-digit pointers in top IPJCs have to slog like mad for H2s and the precarious GP!
For this reason, I would give more credit to pupils from the lower-tier JCs for their tremendous effort put into A levels as compared to their more gifted peers in top JCs. Hence I am quite disturbed that the IP JC pupils like EJC are 'rewarded' with a grand new building while the weaker JCs are being merged. MOE should have been more sensitive and empathetic in this aspect. These pupils can't choose their study-IQ but they can choose to slog hard to catch up with their peers and should be commended too. Go visit any JC and see who is not slogging like mad. Also note that most lower-tier JCs pupils will take the minimum H2 subjects and hence more manageable.
IJC's 93% pass in GP was commendable, but were their passes good enough to qualify for NUS/NTU/SMU or any of the 3
new unis? How long did the 93% secure a pass in GP? 18 months or 30 months (i.e. retention)? What's the point if your pass cannot get you into any local uni?
I mentioned GP earlier since your post suggested that it is one of the toughest to get by in JC. GP was indeed tough in the 80s.
A forummer mentioned IJC's retention rate was 10% and approx 60% in the cohort made it to local uni in 2015.
But in any way, there are many channels to get a full-time degree in sgp these days if one can't get into a local uni or his ideal course. Of course they aren't as recognised as those from local uni but the employability of more than 80% is acceptable. These institutions include SIM Global Edu, James Cook Uni, Kaplan, MDIS, PSB, etc. The degrees offered are exactly the same as their home countries (UK, AUS, US) and aren't external degrees of the 80s. Their home professors are flown over for 60% of the course and the pupils take the same papers as their home uni pupils. Though the world ranking of most of these uni are in the 200-300 range, they are more prominent than our local SMU and SUTD universally as the latter 2 are still new and niche.
Anyway, take heart that the merger won't deny uni-aspirants/late bloomers/strugglers alike - regardless of household income - from joining the 2-yr A level programme so long as they hit L1R5 20 points or lower. They are merely migrated to another A level brick and mortar centre to help MOE optimise resources. They sure can still fulfil the dreams of their parents, though I don't think that's a good reason! Never let our DC be the victims of our unfulfilled or unrealistic ambitions.
Yeah, they have to help to optimise and skim on resources so that the smarter ones get a world-class premises. :evil:
Don't worry. Parents are more like the victims of teenagers these days. They are a lot more independent in thoughts than our time.
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Sieg:
Hmmm....why not move EJC to the existing SRJC premises if MOE truly wants to optimise resources??
Yeah, they have to help to optimise and skim on resources so that the smarter ones get a world-class premises. :evil:
Don't worry. Parents are more like the victims of teenagers these days. They are a lot more independent in thoughts than our time.[/b]
They can 'sweeten' it by some revamping and upgrading jobs. :siam:
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candyfan:
\"Elitism is the belief or attitude that individuals who form an elite—a select group of people with a certain ancestry, intrinsic quality or worth, high intellect, wealth, specialized training or experience, or other distinctive attributes—are those whose influence or authority is greater than that of others; whose views on a matter are to be taken more seriously or carry more weight; whose views or actions are more likely to be constructive to society as a whole; or whose extraordinary skills, abilities, or wisdom render them especially fit to govern.\"
Hmmm....why not move EJC to the existing SRJC premises if MOE truly wants to optimise resources??Sieg:
Yeah, they have to help to optimise and skim on resources so that the smarter ones get a world-class premises. :evil:
Don't worry. Parents are more like the victims of teenagers these days. They are a lot more independent in thoughts than our time.[/b]
They can 'sweeten' it by some revamping and upgrading jobs. :siam:
Jokes aside, I feel that your suggestion is not totally unrealistic. I feel that some 'smarter ones' may only be smart in books but not at work and also may lack EQ and empathy for our society if they were to become our future leaders. It may be a good idea to train them to be humble early to understand the plight of the average citizens. -
Sieg:
[color=#FF0000]Yeah, they have to help to optimise and skim on resources so that the smarter ones get a world-class premises. ::
But isnt that life in meritocratic society? You reap the rewards based on your performance.
Take a look at the campuses of the current elite schools ,some would even have facilities that typical neighbourhood school can only dream of eg swimming pools and really really big gyms
MOE do have to nuture the future crop of leaders of our siciety and they are being practical about it. You cannot expect them to built the same facilities for neighbourhood schools given budget constraints
So rather then being jealous and sore about this, i would rather encourage my child to do his best and get the best opportunities thats available out there -
mindays:
I guess HC and NJ have very different cultures? HC is more centred on the Chinese side while NJ is more English speaking? I also think the merger of HC and NJ can be highly considered because it also eliminates people's perception that only the underperformed JCs get to merge.
I don't think they are under-performing. They have falling enrolments, which is a different thing. -
ryanryan:
Sieg:
[color=#FF0000]Yeah, they have to help to optimise and skim on resources so that the smarter ones get a world-class premises. ::
But isnt that life in meritocratic society? You reap the rewards based on your performance.
Take a look at the campuses of the current elite schools ,some would even have facilities that typical neighbourhood school Would dream of eg swimming pools.
MOE do have to nuture the future crop of leaders of our siciety and they are being practical about it. You cannot expect them to built the same facilities for neighbourhood schools given budget constraints
So rather then being jealous about this, i would rather encourage my child to do his best and get the best opportunities thats available out there
To be fair to MOE, they spend a great deal on providing good premises and facilities across the board. If some JCs seem to have more and better, remember that they probably collect a lot more fees and donations, and it's not funded by MOE. My daughter in MI didn't suffer for lack of resources compared to her sister in a top JC; and we pay a lot more in fees and incidentals for the younger sister!
I'm sure once the hoohah has died down, the next thing will be renovations and additions to the newly-merged JCs. But that will probably attract less press coverage and debate because it will be less controversial. -
notredame:
\"Elitism is the belief or attitude that individuals who form an elite—a select group of people with a certain ancestry, intrinsic quality or worth, high intellect, wealth, specialized training or experience, or other distinctive attributes—are those whose influence or authority is greater than that of others; whose views on a matter are to be taken more seriously or carry more weight; whose views or actions are more likely to be constructive to society as a whole; or whose extraordinary skills, abilities, or wisdom render them especially fit to govern.\"
Jokes aside, I feel that your suggestion is not totally unrealistic. I feel that some 'smarter ones' may only be smart in books but not at work and also may lack EQ and empathy for our society if they were to become our future leaders. It may be a good idea to train them to be humble early to understand the plight of the average citizens.
This is so so true. Just look at the big scammers - Durai, Ming Yi, Kong Khee? Errrrr, where did they receive their education from?
They are not the only ones, I have also encountered real life experiences of those who had elite education - super smart/intelligent but sorely lack compassion.
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slmkhoo:
Glad to have level headed parents like you around.
To be fair to MOE, they spend a great deal on providing good premises and facilities across the board. If some JCs seem to have more and better, remember that they probably collect a lot more fees and donations, and it's not funded by MOE. My daughter in MI didn't suffer for lack of resources compared to her sister in a top JC; and we pay a lot more in fees and incidentals for the younger sister!ryanryan:
But isnt that life in meritocratic society? You reap the rewards based on your performance.
Take a look at the campuses of the current elite schools ,some would even have facilities that typical neighbourhood school Would dream of eg swimming pools.
MOE do have to nuture the future crop of leaders of our siciety and they are being practical about it. You cannot expect them to built the same facilities for neighbourhood schools given budget constraints
So rather then being jealous about this, i would rather encourage my child to do his best and get the best opportunities thats available out there
I'm sure once the hoohah has died down, the next thing will be renovations and additions to the newly-merged JCs. But that will probably attract less press coverage and debate because it will be less controversial.
Some seem to have the mindset that if I dont have it as well, then I must take it away from you to make things equal
:siam: -
ryanryan:
Sieg:
[color=#FF0000]Yeah, they have to help to optimise and skim on resources so that the smarter ones get a world-class premises. ::
But isnt that life in meritocratic society? You reap the rewards based on your performance.
Take a look at the campuses of the current elite schools ,some would even have facilities that typical neighbourhood school Would dream of eg swimming pools.
MOE do have to nuture the future crop of leaders of our siciety and they are being practical about it. You cannot expect them to built the same facilities for neighbourhood schools given budget constraints
So rather then being jealous about this, i would rather encourage my child to do his best and get the best opportunities thats available out there
More like you reap your reward based on how well you are gifted in your studies as hard work alone is insufficient.
I am not sure but I think the swimming pool in ACJC was contributed by its alumni and its partnered religious group.
EJC is a new government JC without any history hence I mentioned.
I ain't jealous about EJC too as my DC is very fortunate to be offered IP route quite effortlessly.
I am speaking from a neutral stand about how I feel about the JCs merging issue and the reasons given by MOE spokepersons.
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