[PSLE MT] PSLE less weightage in Chinese / Mother Tongue
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verykiasu2010:
I intentionally sent my kids to CHINESE kindergarten and it has worked out well. They do well in MT as well, and we speak English at home.[/quote]actually, the demand for CHinese Kindergarten is strong. the other day i spoke with my kid's centre and was told their current waiting list for playgroup to K2 is two years!!
rains,tamarind:
[quote=\"rains\"]
I am of the view that Chinese can be easily mastered, not just acquired, if only given the immersion. I do not agree that my kid has missed the window period for learning Chinese just bcos I alienated her from the language till she was 7. I only started to be more diligent in cultivating her interest in Chinese at 10, early this year, and a few months on, she's already picking up some skills in recognising characters and starting to read Chinese books on her own.
Chinese is a language easy to like and learn. Some of you make it sound as if it's a challenge to like Chinese. I'm sure those who do not master Chinese have not found the correct method to learn it, or like what tamarind said, they have used the wrong method and thus found Chinese difficult.
Lowering the weightage of Chinese at PSLE does not undermine the importance of Chinese. I thought it over-sensitive to equate it to: gahmen thinks Chinese is not important. Perhaps that's how one always perceives what the gahmen thinks that one is inclined to think this way.
Yes it is not too late to start after 7 years old so long as we put in the hard work.
It is just that kids between the age of 3 to 6 have the capability of learning languages effortlessly, and if using the correct methods, it is not necessary to spend many hours a day. If we start from 2 to 3 years old, it is possible to spend less than an hour a day learning to read, and the child will be capable of reading very proficiently (in both English and Chinese) by the age of 6 years old. And there is no need to sacrifice one language for another. I know for sure that this is possible for all kids of normal learning ability, if only parents care to learn the effective methods of teaching both languages.
I am sure that the government knows that Chinese in important. But the end result of the lower the weighting, is that kiasu parents will shift their focus to other subjects, and we will see more young people who cannot read Chinese newspapers or speak mandarin fluently.
MOE, are you hearing?????
p.s I joked with the centre, they can ask for PV (parent volunteer).... :roll: -
sunflower:
I guess which ever way, these minority will still suffer. So maybe MOE thinks that at least if they do badly with the rising (or recently raised?) standard, it won't affect this group of people that much.
but if standard raise, those minority will suffer further, thus offset the lowering weightage.....HyperKiasu:
[quote=\"sunflower\"]
Hee...maybe MOE is thinking of raising (or with the new textbook and examination format wef this yr, has already raised?) the standard of Chinese, but worried that there are people who can't cope with it, so propose lowering the weighting of MT to neutralise the effect.
But of course, I'm still against lowering MT weighting.[/quote]Just to add, my P6 girl's MT teacher told us during Parent-Teaching meeting that due to the change of syllabus and exam format wef this yr, students really need to \"KNOW\" Chinese in order to do well, quite similar to the way we \"know\" English. It's unlike previous years that 半桶水 can also score A/A*. -
sunflower:
半桶水, 哈哈.
Just to add, my P6 girl's MT teacher told us during Parent-Teaching meeting that due to the change of syllabus and exam format wef this yr, students really need to \"KNOW\" Chinese in order to do well, quite similar to the way we \"know\" English. It's unlike previous years that 半桶水 can also score A/A*.
半桶水还嫌多, 还要砍砍砍(cut cut cut) :stupid: -
tree nymph:
Err..just a little correction, it gradually changed from 文言文 to 白话文 around the 民初 period (early 1900s).
Hi 3Boys,
The New China in 1955 uniformed the spoken language - which is Mandarin. But the written Chinese language IS never changed. Ok, actually it was changed from Baihuawen to Wenyanwen during the same period, which I think was a brilliant decision, but this is the style of writing.
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verykiasu2010:
I intentionally sent my kids to CHINESE kindergarten and it has worked out well. They do well in MT as well, and we speak English at home.
For us it's double immersion: send the kids to Chinese kindergarten AND speak to them in Mandarin at home. As for Eng, DH will try to give them an Eng reading lesson every day. Although I also speak cantonese and shanghainese, I'm sticking to Mandarin not b/c I'm a communist but b/c it's the most useful dialect vs the rest :imcool: -
sunflower:
Yeah...I noticed that error too...but I was waiting to see any \"proponent\" of lowering MT weightage could pick it out.... :rotflmao:
Err..just a little correction, it gradually changed from 文言文 to 白话文 around the 民初 period.tree nymph:
Hi 3Boys,
The New China in 1955 uniformed the spoken language - which is Mandarin. But the written Chinese language IS never changed. Ok, actually it was changed from Baihuawen to Wenyanwen during the same period, which I think was a brilliant decision, but this is the style of writing.
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ksi:
Yeah...I noticed that error too...but I was waiting to see any \"proponent\" of lowering MT weightage could pick it out.... :rotflmao:
wow, if they could spot it, they would not have belonged to that camp liao....
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ksi:
Yeah...I noticed that error too...but I was waiting to see any \"proponent\" of lowering MT weightage could pick it out.... :rotflmao:
Haha, that's next to impossible
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3Boys,
One thing I don’t really know is your complaint about the Chinese Language. There are 60+ pages here and I really did not go back page by page to read what you have written before.
Where I replied to your post on 9 May evening, this was what your wrote:
>If you ask my father, educated in Malaysia, fluent in 3 dialects (but not
>mandarin), then having come over here, he’d say the only people
>speaking mandarin in his day were the communists!
>In his view, who gives the right to the mandarin speaking to ‘hijack’
>the definition of Chinese-ness??
>Consider this, hardly 20 years ago, most Hong-Kongers could barely
>speak mandarin, were they less Chinese then?
>How about the migrants to the Chinatowns of Vancouver, Melbourne,
>who took their dialects with them and barely had an incentive to learn
>mandarin? How about the very elderly in our midst who do not speak
>mandarin and often do not read the text as well?
>Are they less Chinese as well?
I agree with you that your father have no less Chinese-ness . I agree that Hong-Kongers who barely speak Mandarin, are no less Chinese.
What I am trying to explain to you is that, these people including your father are Chinese and continue to be Chinese not just because of their spoken language - the Teochew and the Cantonese. They are Chinese because of their culture - what they do, what they think, what they eat, what they wear, as well as how they speak and if they are educated, how they write.
I gather that your point is this: I, 3Boys, is a Chinese, because 4 or 5 generations ago, my great-grand-fathers were from China.
I, 3Boys, speaks Teochew, and therefore I am Chinese enough.
I don’t speak Mandarin. But I am still a Chinese. YOu people don’t quarrel with me just because I don’t speak Mandarin (well) and
throw me with loads of shit that I am culturally a non-Chinese.
Am I right here ?
OK. I come into this discussion thread because of the lowering of the weightage of Chinese Language in PSLE. I am against the reduction. And in my mind, Chinese Language comprise of both the written language and the spoken Mandarin. So when you use the examples of your father, the Hong Kongers and migrants who don’t actually speak Mandarin but preserved their culture roots - I wanted to explain to you that:
(i) they don’t speak Mandarin because Mandarin had not been officially defined by the New China as the common standard spoken language;
(ii) however, they can read, and the written part of Chinese is there for years;
Therefore, they still know the Chinese Language. Therefore, they still have their culture roots.
In another word, if the Qing Dynasty or even the Ming Dynasty government had done the definition and standardization of Mandarin before (your so-call) the Communist Party [[and frankly, I think bringing in the Communist politics into this discussion is totally irrelevant and ridiculous]], then your father could very well be fluent in Mandarin !
3Boys, all these Hokkien, Teochew, Cantonese, Hainanese…carries the Chinese culture, and so for hundreds and even thousands of years. When a New China was formed, it was a right thing in my view to unify the spoken language of the Chinese people. When Emperor Qin unified the ancient China, he also did the same to the Chinese language in particular the written words.
Something you may also want to note: that before a unified China government was established, there was no proper education system in China. All they had was the private schools in the villege, run by a old scholar. All they did was to recite the Three Character Classic (San Ji Jing). Probably after a New China was formed, they had a government, they had public funds administration by government, central or local, setting up school and education systems, and define proper syllabus for teaching.
Your father definitely missed that part - thus he did not have the opportunity to learn the Chinese Language properly. Having so defined in 1955, it become the standard language for the Chinese people in the whole world.
It is therefore really disappointing for me to read your reply to me, confusing all these issues, even more, by saying "one qualifies to be Chinese on account of a political act of the Communist Party of China in 1955". The others have already repsonded to you on this, i.e. even if KMT won the war, likely we are still speaking Mandarin as in Taiwan today. Taiwan uses the traditional character set. PRC uses the simplified character set. But the Chinese Language, is still the one Chinese Language that they use, we use here in Singapore, and elsewhere by all the Chinese overseas.
Like I said, I did not read your previous posts. I am trying to find out which part of Chinese Language is bothering you.
>I am putting my kids through Chinese immersion. There is certainly
>an academic need to do so, and a possibly future economc utility.
>I have nothing against gaining proficiency in Mandarin, like all other
>subjects. Also, I would like to equip them with some tools, so that
>in future, should they so desire, they may explore the MANDARIN
>culture more fully. But I do it on my own terms, and I do it to a
>reasonable extent. What is reasonable is now being looked at by MOE,
>and is the cause of this furore.
Are you having problem with the spoken Mandarin or even with the written part as well ?
If you are saying your own terms - are you saying that you want (either for yourself or your children) to be proficient just the written part, but not the spoken Mandarin part and you can continue to do so in Teochew…?
Mind you, MOE is talking about lowering the entire Chinese Language weightage both written (papers 1 and 2) and spoken (oral exam).
In a following post, you repeat the complain of other people defining the standard to you:
>However, I resist the imposition of someone else’s standards of what
>the level of Chinese language proficiency needs to be, and I want a
>good open debate on it.
3Boys, standard is what we set for ourselves.
Today, I live in Singapore, I have an apartment, I have a car…this is my living standard. Good or bad ? I am happy with it.
Today, you can only speak Teochew. You are happy. But if all your friends, your neighbours and colleagues speak fluent Mandarin. You are of a lower standard compared to them.
Tomorrow, (and that is what the others saying) China overtakes USA, the whole world is speaking fluent Mandarin, and you are still speaking Teochew only, that is your choice.
Tomorrow, if MOE lower the MT/CL to 5%, I am not going to let my children sit back and forget about learning Chinese. That is my standard.
So, if you rely on MOE to set the standard for you…too bad. You give the decision power in your life to someone in MOE.
Singapore always kiasu (hey, that is why we are in this forum). People have this standard. We must surpass that. Say in London there is a wheel by the river, we must build a slightly bigger one by the bay. People have casino, we must have two. People’s airport is so-so, ours must have awards year after year.
We set our own standard.
>What perplexes me is that Singaporeans, living in Singapore, are willing
>to go to cultural war with each other over a standard (not culture mind
>you, a standard) set by a foreign government, and not willing to plot
>our own way forwards, crafting policies that are commensurate with
>the needs of our population. No other country does what we do.
I am a Singaporean. I have recited the pledge since 7 years old until now. But I don’t have to recite any pledge that I am a Chinese, at all.
For 2.5 years or so, Singapore government wants me to pledge that I will take up the M16 and fight my life for Singapore. But I don’t need any
pledge and will do whatever necessary to preserve my identity as a Chinese, what I do, what I think, what I eat, what I wear, what I speak and what I write.
We are not following anything set by a foreign government - but set by the entire Chinese people in this world: what we do, what we think, what we eat, what we wear, what we speak and what we write.
For those of us who wants to keep our standard of Chinese Language on-par with PRC and Taiwan, we think what MOE is doing for us is NOT ENOUGH. This is why 2,518 people went to Hong Lim Park and put it in writing yesterday.
But…for you, 3Boys, if you are really happy that you are a Chinese because you can speak Teochew. OK. You are.
>Honestly, if I had known then what it was all about, I would have told
>a couple of my more nasty CL2 teachers to take a walk…
Having nasty teachers is not your fault. You cannot forgive your nasty teachers until now, and therefore you continue to hate.
In your time and mine time, teachers are not so well trained (compare to today) and there have not been so many new teaching methods. Learning was all by hard work using rote memory. It was not fun at all.
The learning experience is so much different now. I can’t help but think you said what you said because of your bad experience. Luckily you said you are sending your children to Chinese classes and equip them with what they need. Otherwise, you are going to be such a bad influence for your children that they will suffer (unfairly) because of your bad experience in your younger days.
OK. Enough. Lets listen to what the Prime Minister is going to say tomorrow. -
HyperKiasu:
the more we discussed, the more fun it became... thanks to MOE's proposal..... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:[/quote]Hee...really fun. Donno abt other forums (didn't go) but very interesting discussion here. :lol:tamarind:
[quote=\"nan.nan\"]Are you really thinking that the language is only 55 years old ?
I guess now you have a better understanding of those people who thinks that the weighting of MT should be reduced
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