[PSLE MT] PSLE less weightage in Chinese / Mother Tongue
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3boys,
I appreciate snideness as far as the next man...and I think you misunderstood what I meant in my post. I did not state that Chinese/Mandarin was only 55 years old. I was addressing your point on migration and culture being intertwined, and the fact that suppositions in argument are ultimately pointless.
To be honest, I simply believe that learning a language itself is necessary and helpful in opening one up to the cultures of that speakers of that language. Linguists would know that Langauage restricts as well as form perceptions/blinders to the users. Learning another langaage, and mastering it to certain level of competence helps faclitate that entry into another world.
There are conflicting views on the issue of reduction in weightage mainly because people percieve the reduction in weightage to be equivalent to a reduction in importance. This is the case because of our emphasis on academic mastery in not just languages, but in all examinable subjects as a whole. It may be that a reduction in weightage may spur some to enjoy the language (MT) more because it is no longer so stressful. The cynic in me believes otherwise. Unless a overhaul of the entire educational system takes place, piecemeal measures targeting a specific subject would just push students to focus on the more \"ïmportant\" subjects.
A fair question to you would be: What would you do, if MOE decides to reduce the weightage of MT in PSLE? Would you still encourage your kids to study it as conscientously and excel in it as with other subjects? Having read somewhere that you are not a kiasu parent of course.3Boys:
nan.nan,
thank you for taking such a long time time to craft your extensive reply. It is very thoughtful and I appreciate it. You get about 90% of what I am trying to say. Where we differ is in the cultural aspects (emphasis on it) and how we set examinable standards.
So I ask this question. If you take a long posting/migrate to the US or Europe, are you culturally rooted as a Singaporean, or are you culturally rooted as a Chinese? How you answer this question comes from deep down inside your guts and will colour how you see this issue to some extent. Since it is a gut reaction, there is no point really trying to have a rational discussion on it, simply too emotive.
People keep setting up straw-men, so as to knock them down. Don't know how many false depictions of my positions are out there, and I am too weary to go correct them all.
To me its deja-vu, not much has changed in 30 years. -
A 3rd letter to add to Grandma Chong's and Mrs Sng's : pro-lowering of weightage. Sigh, when will these people stop blaming the government for everything? :?
May 11, 2010
My son will suffer like my husband did because of mother tongue.
I AM a Singaporean who grew up in a typical Chinese family. I had no difficulties learning Chinese because we conversed in Mandarin at home. In fact, I did very well for my mother tongue papers in school.
My husband came from a Peranakan family that spoke only English. He did not do well in mother tongue during his Primary School Leaving Examination, even though he aced his other subjects. He was struggling with his mother tongue simply because he was from an English-speaking background.
He was sent to the Normal stream in secondary school. He worked very hard to move on to the Express stream, but did not do well in mother tongue in the O levels. He was forced to leave Singapore at the age of 16 to continue his studies in the United States.
Many children born during the 1970s and who could not manage mother tongue had to leave Singapore to study. What about those who could not afford to do so? They stayed behind and struggled through the system. Those who did very well in three subjects but took simple Chinese went to neighbourhood schools; those who did well in all four subjects, including Higher Chinese, got to go to the best schools.
I was so glad when Education Minister Ng Eng Hen brought up the revamp of the study of mother tongue recently. Chinese teachers should not feel let down because such a move would lighten their workload. This would free up more time for them to implement new ways of teaching the language.
During music classes, teach Chinese songs. Children learn best when they are in different settings. For health education, social studies or physical education lessons, engage Chinese nationals to teach these lessons in Chinese.
Now I have a very difficult time teaching my son his mother tongue, despite my Chinese background. He cannot go to the best class because he too cannot grasp the subject. Should I send him overseas too? Isn't it sad that a child has to leave Singapore and further his studies because the system failed him?
Can't there be a win-win situation where Special Assistance Plan schools allow for two different admission categories: three best subjects (without Chinese) and four best subjects (with Chinese).
Tan Yan Ning (Ms) -
HyperKiasu:
nah.....
before i :offtopic: , one more thing to add (for fun only):
If exam-smart-only is willing to work for street-smart-only, that is becoz exam-smart-only can earn higher than street-smart-only. e.g, Income for a qualified actuarial is higher than that of GM....
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25hourmaid:
Coming from an English speaking family is not an excuse for not doing well in Chinese.A 3rd letter to add to Grandma Chong's and Mrs Sng's : pro-lowering of weightage. Sigh, when will these people stop blaming the government for everything? :?
May 11, 2010
My son will suffer like my husband did because of mother tongue.
I AM a Singaporean who grew up in a typical Chinese family. I had no difficulties learning Chinese because we conversed in Mandarin at home. In fact, I did very well for my mother tongue papers in school.
My husband came from a Peranakan family that spoke only English. He did not do well in mother tongue during his Primary School Leaving Examination, even though he aced his other subjects. He was struggling with his mother tongue simply because he was from an English-speaking background.
He was sent to the Normal stream in secondary school. He worked very hard to move on to the Express stream, but did not do well in mother tongue in the O levels. He was forced to leave Singapore at the age of 16 to continue his studies in the United States.
Many children born during the 1970s and who could not manage mother tongue had to leave Singapore to study. What about those who could not afford to do so? They stayed behind and struggled through the system. Those who did very well in three subjects but took simple Chinese went to neighbourhood schools; those who did well in all four subjects, including Higher Chinese, got to go to the best schools.
I was so glad when Education Minister Ng Eng Hen brought up the revamp of the study of mother tongue recently. Chinese teachers should not feel let down because such a move would lighten their workload. This would free up more time for them to implement new ways of teaching the language.
During music classes, teach Chinese songs. Children learn best when they are in different settings. For health education, social studies or physical education lessons, engage Chinese nationals to teach these lessons in Chinese.
Now I have a very difficult time teaching my son his mother tongue, despite my Chinese background. He cannot go to the best class because he too cannot grasp the subject. Should I send him overseas too? Isn't it sad that a child has to leave Singapore and further his studies because the system failed him?
Can't there be a win-win situation where Special Assistance Plan schools allow for two different admission categories: three best subjects (without Chinese) and four best subjects (with Chinese).
Tan Yan Ning (Ms)
My hubby is also Peranakan, his parents cannot read or speak a word of Chinese. They engaged a private tutor for my hubby and he was able to get As in Chinese all the way to A levels.
The mother who wrote the article obviously does not know the correct methods to teach Chinese, she should send her child to enrichment classes like Berries/Tien Hsia or engage a private tutor. I have seen many non-Chinese students who scored A / A * for PSLE after attending classes at Tien Hsia.
Even in neighbourhood schools, there are many students who do very well in O levels. It is not the end of the world.
My girl's Chinese teacher teaches many songs during the Chinese lesson. I believe that most Chinese teachers are already trying their best to make the lessons more interesting. The problem could be with the child, he is most likely influenced by the parents' negative attitude towards the language, then don't blame the teacher. -
Based on their arguments, I believe they are more children who are disadvantaged in English because they came from non-English speaking families. And why are they not complaining? Partly because their parents could not write English letters to ST forums. :lol:
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tamarind:
Coming from an English speaking family is not an excuse for not doing well in Chinese.
:goodpost: tamarind! :celebrate: -
gnoikj:
You take a fairly utilitarian view of the issue, which is largely aligned with mine. I put my kids through the drill because I am aware of what the local scene is like and do not wish for them to be too severely disadvantaged (so yeah, maybe I'm am just a little bit kiasu). It is an utilitarian approach, and if in the future they wish to pursue the culture at a deeper level, it is their choice, I neither encourage nor discourage it. I see it this way, I am a Singaporean first, lingua franca is English. English necessarily needs to be of a higher importance than MT. For those who wish to pursue MT at a higher level, there are MANY options open. However, my view is that it is unreasonable to set the general bar at a level that a small (but significant) number of otherwise smart students struggle constantly with it through school and are disadvantaged when it comes to certain opportunities on the account of it. This has some resonance with me. Not everbody has the same affinity for the language or culture, and we are a plural society, so no one should be hounded on account of feeling that way.
There are conflicting views on the issue of reduction in weightage mainly because people percieve the reduction in weightage to be equivalent to a reduction in importance. This is the case because of our emphasis on academic mastery in not just languages, but in all examinable subjects as a whole. It may be that a reduction in weightage may spur some to enjoy the language (MT) more because it is no longer so stressful. The cynic in me believes otherwise. Unless a overhaul of the entire educational system takes place, piecemeal measures targeting a specific subject would just push students to focus on the more \"ïmportant\" subjects.
A fair question to you would be: What would you do, if MOE decides to reduce the weightage of MT in PSLE? Would you still encourage your kids to study it as conscientously and excel in it as with other subjects? Having read somewhere that you are not a kiasu parent of course.
Therefore, I feel there should be a diversity of approaches and standards. As many here have already stated, they don't set their internal standard for Chinese proficiency by what MOE does, they set it higher. I.e. they imply they don't really care what other people do. Yet, there is an internal contradiction in their position when they then insist that all must be held to the same standard, so that their precious baby's advantage will not be eroded away.
What does this tell me. Protectionism? Self interest? You can draw your own conclusions. I have little time for such attitudes, they are divisive and contributory to the high pitch of the debate.
Being in this mix has been extremely motivating for me, but in a negative way. At least you have the maturity to engage directly on the issue as opposed to casting innuendo or sneering behind my back.
What will I do? One basically needs to adapt to the environment. My kids will get the kind of support they need to manage CL2 well in the school environment. That includes enrichment, and at an early stage. But it will not be immersive. This is my base level, to be titrated up and down as the situation dictates. It does not matter if they be in the top tier of CL. In my years of hiring people, I know there is not necessarily a lot of correlation between PSLE (or even 'O' level) scores and work performance. Not to downplay the importance of academic performance, but exam-smart only gets you so far. -
3Boys:
.....What does this tell me. Protectionism? Self interest? .......
Don't you see that by supporting reduction in MT weightage, you take a position no different from those you imputed on quote 'there is an internal contradiction in their position when they then insist that all must be held to the same standard, so that their precious baby's advantage will not be eroded away. ', except that you are at opposite ends of it.
Why must one group benefit at the expense of another group?
gnoikj is right. One cannot improve the system by piece measure such as just reducing the MT weightage. -
Now I want to address the lowering of the bar…
>However, my view is that it is unreasonable to set the general bar at a
>level that a small (but significant) number of otherwise smart students
>struggle constantly with it through school and are disadvantaged when it
>comes to certain opportunities on the account of it
Say there are 10 students: 4 of them A* for MT, 3 of them B for MT, 2 of the C for MT, and 1 of them D for MT. Suppose one of the B students is 3Boys’ child.
Now the bar is at 25%.
So, the B, C and D are struggling.
MOE lower the bar to 10%. The B’s are happy, now they don’t struggle so much.
But the bottom 3 are still struggling.
6 months later, they petition to MOE. MOE lower the bar again to 5%.
The C’s are now happy. But there is still a D there struggling.
So where should the bar be such that NO Smart students are struggling ?
The bar should be at Zero.
Although the bar is at Zero, the 6 students’ MT standard is still poor compare to the 4 ! Because no effort was made to improve their capability but lower the bar. They remain weak and happy, because in Singapore, they speak English as working language and in coffeeshop they order mee pok in Teochew. That works.
These 10 students now will not struggle with MT. So the next thing will be Maths. There will be Science Smart student but struggling with numbers. So, their parents will petition to MOE to lower the weightage of Maths for PSLE.
…on and on…until all weightages are zero. All Singaporeans are happy now.
Singaporeans are happy to continue to speak English as a working language, order mee pok in Teochew, the mee pok man give change, they cannot count, take out a calculator and press… -
Way2GO:
Exactly, and 3Boys, your baby's advantage is English just like mine, but I think in fairer terms for those who focused on Chinese. I feel that I have a loser mindset if I cannot even accept that people have invested more time in getting something right which I have not done so for my child. I do not expect the playing field to be levelled but I DO expect my child to try hard for her own sake. I would be happy to inform in future that she has not taken the defeatist attitude towards her life.3Boys:
.....What does this tell me. Protectionism? Self interest? .......
Don't you see that by supporting reduction in MT weightage, you take a position no different from those you imputed on quote 'there is an internal contradiction in their position when they then insist that all must be held to the same standard, so that their precious baby's advantage will not be eroded away. ', except that you are at opposite ends of it.
Why must one group benefit at the expense of another group?
gnoikj is right. One cannot improve the system by piece measure such as just reducing the MT weightage.
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