[PSLE MT] PSLE less weightage in Chinese / Mother Tongue
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NUS only require students to pass MT. There is no need to get an A grade. If a student cannot even pass MT, he does not qualify for a university education.
Remember that our government wants our universities to be world class. If they take in everybody, then a degree will become worthless.
The problem is not with PSLE. The problem is with those parents who try so hard to push their kids into the top secondary schools. I am sure there are many parents who do not care about getting into the top secondary schools, because they know very well if the child is hardworking, he/she can do well in any school. These kids will be able to enjoy their childhood. -
sunflower:
Tamarind, you're very lucky to get such good Chinese teachers, similarly to my hubby when he got very good English teachers who helped him improved his English proficiency tremendously when he was in Secondary school. Most of my Chinese teachers do not teach the subject in an interesting manner.
My case was different. I was in primary/secondary school from late 70s to 80s, and I have always enjoyed my Chinese lesson. I was never required to use rote memory for Chinese. My Chinese teachers never asked us to memorize anything. I had very inspiring teachers, who told us many things about China that I remember for a long time. In fact, after I started working, I went to China in search of all the places that my teachers mentioned, like 寒山寺, 西湖, etc. Most importantly, my teachers taught me how to appreciate the beauty of the Chinese characters. In fact, Chinese lessons are much more fun than English lessons to me. I had to memorise everything in the English Grammar book.tamarind:
[quote=\"nan.nan\"]
In your time and mine time, teachers are not so well trained (compare to today) and there have not been so many new teaching methods. Learning was all by hard work using rote memory. It was not fun at all.
I think the standards of the Chinese teachers probably got worst from late 80s to the 90s ?
As for me, I just had a Chinese home environment with lots of Chinese books and literature lying around because unlike me, my much older siblings went to Chinese school. I dabbled with their secondary school Chinese textbook and was curious enough to \"study\" some 文言文 when I was small. I mainly spoke dialect with mum, English with dad and Chinese with siblings. :lol:[/quote]I am just curious about all these complains that Chinese is a rote learning subject. Anyone of us had Chinese teachers that make us memorize the textbook ?
In fact, I remember that our Chinese textbooks contain interesting stories, and all we had to do is to read and learn the new words. There is no need to memorize the stories. It is similar to the Stellar program now. I looked at the primary school textbooks kids are using now, they are still using Chinese stories to teach.
The only thing we had to practice is Ting Xie, and this is definitely not more than English Spelling. Lots of kids need to spend a lot of time memorizing English spelling also, then English is also a rote learning subject, why no one complains ?
Even though MOE is using the Stellar program now, all primary schools still have English spelling tests every week. Note that many kids do not know phonics and they are made to practice writing the same English words many times to memorize the letters. Isn't this rote learning ?
The reason why I brought this up is that instead of spending so much time debating about lowering the weighting, educators and parents need to spend more time looking into how the languages are actually taught and how to improve the methods. -
3boys,
I appreciate snideness as far as the next man...and I think you misunderstood what I meant in my post. I did not state that Chinese/Mandarin was only 55 years old. I was addressing your point on migration and culture being intertwined, and the fact that suppositions in argument are ultimately pointless.
To be honest, I simply believe that learning a language itself is necessary and helpful in opening one up to the cultures of that speakers of that language. Linguists would know that Langauage restricts as well as form perceptions/blinders to the users. Learning another langaage, and mastering it to certain level of competence helps faclitate that entry into another world.
There are conflicting views on the issue of reduction in weightage mainly because people percieve the reduction in weightage to be equivalent to a reduction in importance. This is the case because of our emphasis on academic mastery in not just languages, but in all examinable subjects as a whole. It may be that a reduction in weightage may spur some to enjoy the language (MT) more because it is no longer so stressful. The cynic in me believes otherwise. Unless a overhaul of the entire educational system takes place, piecemeal measures targeting a specific subject would just push students to focus on the more \"ïmportant\" subjects.
A fair question to you would be: What would you do, if MOE decides to reduce the weightage of MT in PSLE? Would you still encourage your kids to study it as conscientously and excel in it as with other subjects? Having read somewhere that you are not a kiasu parent of course.3Boys:
nan.nan,
thank you for taking such a long time time to craft your extensive reply. It is very thoughtful and I appreciate it. You get about 90% of what I am trying to say. Where we differ is in the cultural aspects (emphasis on it) and how we set examinable standards.
So I ask this question. If you take a long posting/migrate to the US or Europe, are you culturally rooted as a Singaporean, or are you culturally rooted as a Chinese? How you answer this question comes from deep down inside your guts and will colour how you see this issue to some extent. Since it is a gut reaction, there is no point really trying to have a rational discussion on it, simply too emotive.
People keep setting up straw-men, so as to knock them down. Don't know how many false depictions of my positions are out there, and I am too weary to go correct them all.
To me its deja-vu, not much has changed in 30 years. -
A 3rd letter to add to Grandma Chong's and Mrs Sng's : pro-lowering of weightage. Sigh, when will these people stop blaming the government for everything? :?
May 11, 2010
My son will suffer like my husband did because of mother tongue.
I AM a Singaporean who grew up in a typical Chinese family. I had no difficulties learning Chinese because we conversed in Mandarin at home. In fact, I did very well for my mother tongue papers in school.
My husband came from a Peranakan family that spoke only English. He did not do well in mother tongue during his Primary School Leaving Examination, even though he aced his other subjects. He was struggling with his mother tongue simply because he was from an English-speaking background.
He was sent to the Normal stream in secondary school. He worked very hard to move on to the Express stream, but did not do well in mother tongue in the O levels. He was forced to leave Singapore at the age of 16 to continue his studies in the United States.
Many children born during the 1970s and who could not manage mother tongue had to leave Singapore to study. What about those who could not afford to do so? They stayed behind and struggled through the system. Those who did very well in three subjects but took simple Chinese went to neighbourhood schools; those who did well in all four subjects, including Higher Chinese, got to go to the best schools.
I was so glad when Education Minister Ng Eng Hen brought up the revamp of the study of mother tongue recently. Chinese teachers should not feel let down because such a move would lighten their workload. This would free up more time for them to implement new ways of teaching the language.
During music classes, teach Chinese songs. Children learn best when they are in different settings. For health education, social studies or physical education lessons, engage Chinese nationals to teach these lessons in Chinese.
Now I have a very difficult time teaching my son his mother tongue, despite my Chinese background. He cannot go to the best class because he too cannot grasp the subject. Should I send him overseas too? Isn't it sad that a child has to leave Singapore and further his studies because the system failed him?
Can't there be a win-win situation where Special Assistance Plan schools allow for two different admission categories: three best subjects (without Chinese) and four best subjects (with Chinese).
Tan Yan Ning (Ms) -
HyperKiasu:
nah.....
before i :offtopic: , one more thing to add (for fun only):
If exam-smart-only is willing to work for street-smart-only, that is becoz exam-smart-only can earn higher than street-smart-only. e.g, Income for a qualified actuarial is higher than that of GM....
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25hourmaid:
Coming from an English speaking family is not an excuse for not doing well in Chinese.A 3rd letter to add to Grandma Chong's and Mrs Sng's : pro-lowering of weightage. Sigh, when will these people stop blaming the government for everything? :?
May 11, 2010
My son will suffer like my husband did because of mother tongue.
I AM a Singaporean who grew up in a typical Chinese family. I had no difficulties learning Chinese because we conversed in Mandarin at home. In fact, I did very well for my mother tongue papers in school.
My husband came from a Peranakan family that spoke only English. He did not do well in mother tongue during his Primary School Leaving Examination, even though he aced his other subjects. He was struggling with his mother tongue simply because he was from an English-speaking background.
He was sent to the Normal stream in secondary school. He worked very hard to move on to the Express stream, but did not do well in mother tongue in the O levels. He was forced to leave Singapore at the age of 16 to continue his studies in the United States.
Many children born during the 1970s and who could not manage mother tongue had to leave Singapore to study. What about those who could not afford to do so? They stayed behind and struggled through the system. Those who did very well in three subjects but took simple Chinese went to neighbourhood schools; those who did well in all four subjects, including Higher Chinese, got to go to the best schools.
I was so glad when Education Minister Ng Eng Hen brought up the revamp of the study of mother tongue recently. Chinese teachers should not feel let down because such a move would lighten their workload. This would free up more time for them to implement new ways of teaching the language.
During music classes, teach Chinese songs. Children learn best when they are in different settings. For health education, social studies or physical education lessons, engage Chinese nationals to teach these lessons in Chinese.
Now I have a very difficult time teaching my son his mother tongue, despite my Chinese background. He cannot go to the best class because he too cannot grasp the subject. Should I send him overseas too? Isn't it sad that a child has to leave Singapore and further his studies because the system failed him?
Can't there be a win-win situation where Special Assistance Plan schools allow for two different admission categories: three best subjects (without Chinese) and four best subjects (with Chinese).
Tan Yan Ning (Ms)
My hubby is also Peranakan, his parents cannot read or speak a word of Chinese. They engaged a private tutor for my hubby and he was able to get As in Chinese all the way to A levels.
The mother who wrote the article obviously does not know the correct methods to teach Chinese, she should send her child to enrichment classes like Berries/Tien Hsia or engage a private tutor. I have seen many non-Chinese students who scored A / A * for PSLE after attending classes at Tien Hsia.
Even in neighbourhood schools, there are many students who do very well in O levels. It is not the end of the world.
My girl's Chinese teacher teaches many songs during the Chinese lesson. I believe that most Chinese teachers are already trying their best to make the lessons more interesting. The problem could be with the child, he is most likely influenced by the parents' negative attitude towards the language, then don't blame the teacher. -
Based on their arguments, I believe they are more children who are disadvantaged in English because they came from non-English speaking families. And why are they not complaining? Partly because their parents could not write English letters to ST forums. :lol:
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tamarind:
Coming from an English speaking family is not an excuse for not doing well in Chinese.
:goodpost: tamarind! :celebrate: -
gnoikj:
You take a fairly utilitarian view of the issue, which is largely aligned with mine. I put my kids through the drill because I am aware of what the local scene is like and do not wish for them to be too severely disadvantaged (so yeah, maybe I'm am just a little bit kiasu). It is an utilitarian approach, and if in the future they wish to pursue the culture at a deeper level, it is their choice, I neither encourage nor discourage it. I see it this way, I am a Singaporean first, lingua franca is English. English necessarily needs to be of a higher importance than MT. For those who wish to pursue MT at a higher level, there are MANY options open. However, my view is that it is unreasonable to set the general bar at a level that a small (but significant) number of otherwise smart students struggle constantly with it through school and are disadvantaged when it comes to certain opportunities on the account of it. This has some resonance with me. Not everbody has the same affinity for the language or culture, and we are a plural society, so no one should be hounded on account of feeling that way.
There are conflicting views on the issue of reduction in weightage mainly because people percieve the reduction in weightage to be equivalent to a reduction in importance. This is the case because of our emphasis on academic mastery in not just languages, but in all examinable subjects as a whole. It may be that a reduction in weightage may spur some to enjoy the language (MT) more because it is no longer so stressful. The cynic in me believes otherwise. Unless a overhaul of the entire educational system takes place, piecemeal measures targeting a specific subject would just push students to focus on the more \"ïmportant\" subjects.
A fair question to you would be: What would you do, if MOE decides to reduce the weightage of MT in PSLE? Would you still encourage your kids to study it as conscientously and excel in it as with other subjects? Having read somewhere that you are not a kiasu parent of course.
Therefore, I feel there should be a diversity of approaches and standards. As many here have already stated, they don't set their internal standard for Chinese proficiency by what MOE does, they set it higher. I.e. they imply they don't really care what other people do. Yet, there is an internal contradiction in their position when they then insist that all must be held to the same standard, so that their precious baby's advantage will not be eroded away.
What does this tell me. Protectionism? Self interest? You can draw your own conclusions. I have little time for such attitudes, they are divisive and contributory to the high pitch of the debate.
Being in this mix has been extremely motivating for me, but in a negative way. At least you have the maturity to engage directly on the issue as opposed to casting innuendo or sneering behind my back.
What will I do? One basically needs to adapt to the environment. My kids will get the kind of support they need to manage CL2 well in the school environment. That includes enrichment, and at an early stage. But it will not be immersive. This is my base level, to be titrated up and down as the situation dictates. It does not matter if they be in the top tier of CL. In my years of hiring people, I know there is not necessarily a lot of correlation between PSLE (or even 'O' level) scores and work performance. Not to downplay the importance of academic performance, but exam-smart only gets you so far. -
3Boys:
.....What does this tell me. Protectionism? Self interest? .......
Don't you see that by supporting reduction in MT weightage, you take a position no different from those you imputed on quote 'there is an internal contradiction in their position when they then insist that all must be held to the same standard, so that their precious baby's advantage will not be eroded away. ', except that you are at opposite ends of it.
Why must one group benefit at the expense of another group?
gnoikj is right. One cannot improve the system by piece measure such as just reducing the MT weightage.
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