How much is enough for retirement in Singapore?

[ngl2010]

Nebbermind:

Ya, you can knock down walls but you'll still need to align the rooms with the windows which means there's not much choice in the new configuration.


Secondly, the mbr will probably be 1 'unit' coz it'll provide the sewage and water point for a pantry. But if the mbr is far from the main door, then there'll be a lot of wasted floor area in creating a passage leading to the mbr if it's even possible

I see. That means I have to buy a 5-room flat which master bedroom is near main door.

[ngl2010]

Pen88n:

I've seen some old design type of 5 room HDB having separate living and dining rooms, so can probably convert one to a studio (maybe with 1 bedroom knock down to make bigger space). But I must say it will be dependent on the design - dual key condo has been developed with that dual-key function in mind, so they optimise the space. Converting a 5-room HDB to such may end up with not optimising space and there are corners and wastage due to limitation due to design or inability to knock down some walls, etc.

Whoa... looks like it is not easy. So many limitations. I guess I will cross the bridge when I come to it. It is good that I tossed the idea here so I know what to expect if I want to do it that way.

[Pen88n]

ngl2010:

Pen88n:

I've seen some old design type of 5 room HDB having separate living and dining rooms, so can probably convert one to a studio (maybe with 1 bedroom knock down to make bigger space). But I must say it will be dependent on the design - dual key condo has been developed with that dual-key function in mind, so they optimise the space. Converting a 5-room HDB to such may end up with not optimising space and there are corners and wastage due to limitation due to design or inability to knock down some walls, etc.

Whoa... looks like it is not easy. So many limitations. I guess I will cross the bridge when I come to it. It is good that I tossed the idea here so I know what to expect if I want to do it that way.

Yep, when redesigning the unit, must take into consideration other additional things like water piping / outlet (for kitchen, for laundry), electricity sockets and lightings, windows, toilets, rubbish chute, etc.

[sharonkhoo]

First and foremost, when it comes to HDB flats, is whether HDB approves such modifications? I have a feeling it may be a problem.

[starlight1968sg]

slmkhoo:

First and foremost, when it comes to HDB flats, is whether HDB approves such modifications? I have a feeling it may be a problem.

Agreed esp on hacking some parts.

[lee_yl]

Maybe easier to just buy 2 adjoining flats (3rm flats) and rent out one of them. No need to spend extra money on redesigning/renovate while enjoying a higher rental yield renting out an entire 3rm flat than an artificially created studio.


Agree that most of the 5rm flats have the bedrooms tucked at the far corner of the unit.

Someone I know built a partition wall in between the rooms to split his ground floor 3-bedder private apartment into a studio and 2-bedder. The studio uses the main door to enter/exit while the owner and his wife living in the other half of the house enter/exit through the patio. The studio created is then rented out as a source of retirement income for the old couple.

[Zeit]

lee_yl:

Someone I know built a partition wall in between the rooms to split his ground floor 3-bedder private apartment into a studio and 2-bedder. The studio uses the main door to enter/exit while the owner and his wife living in the other half of the house enter/exit through the patio. The studio created is then rented out as a source of retirement income for the old couple.

This is illegal, isn't it?

http://www.asiaone.com/News/AsiaOne%2BNews/Singapore/Story/A1Story20090920-168929.html

https://www.ura.gov.sg/uol/buy-property/about/leasing/residential.aspx

[Zeit]

starlight1968sg:

slmkhoo:

First and foremost, when it comes to HDB flats, is whether HDB approves such modifications? I have a feeling it may be a problem.

Agreed esp on hacking some parts.

They are talking about erection of partition walls in HDB, not hacking. Hacking requires HDB's permit, as always.
You can partition your HDB flat. Gypsum, tempered glass, wooden walls, whatever but must provide sufficient lighting (implied must have windows?), ventilation and most imptly, direct safety escape route to the main exit. This newly created studio door mustn't open out to another room but must have direct access to the main door. Not too sure about wooden walls, as they are hazmat.

Be careful with reconfiguring bathrooms and kitchen in the newly created studio within your HDB. You know these spaces require waterproofing screed/membrane. E.g. can't simply create a sub-bathroom at the original living room space for your tenant. Your neighbours downstairs will suffer from water leakages or seepage over time.

Get HDB licensed renovation contractor to do up a proposed configuration. There're so many 5-rm flat types in the market. Some point blocks from the 70s-80s, others combined with 4-rooms or even EAs.

[Zeit]

MrsKiasu:

What is the advantage of selling own flat to our kid? Zero cash/no agent fee/heart attachment?

Can't help but wonder why parents want to pick 1 descendant over the other(s) for this sort of transaction. Is it fair? Won't the other descendant(s) get upset since the parents' matrimonial property (aka inheritance) is no more or downsized (if parents purchase a studio apartment after the sale)?

The proceeds won't be a lot since SP's been discounted for one's own child. Parents are shortchanged through this sacrifice.

Won't that buyer's spouse feel pressured to buy that 30-year-old LH property from you and to have to service its mortgage (of an old property with not many years left), albeit it's at a 'own family price', sans the agent's fee? Must the spouse oblige because his/her in laws want to cash out for retirement?

I'd also heard of parents selling the entire flat to 1 married child to cash out, let the child and spouse pay for the monthly instalments and utilities, while the parents and unmarried sibling(s) continue to live as occupiers in the flat.

Another equally bad scenario is the property is jointly owned by the parents and that child (excl. the spouse) via selling 50% share to the latter. The spouse doesn't own the property and quarrels with better half everyday. The other siblings decry unfairness.

[sharonkhoo]

Zeit:

MrsKiasu:

What is the advantage of selling own flat to our kid? Zero cash/no agent fee/heart attachment?

Can't help but wonder why parents want to pick 1 descendant over the other(s) for this sort of transaction. Is it fair? Won't the other descendant(s) get upset since the parents' matrimonial property (aka inheritance) is no more or downsized (if parents purchase a studio apartment after the sale)?

The proceeds won't be a lot since SP's been discounted for one's own child. Parents are shortchanged through this sacrifice.

Won't that buyer's spouse feel pressured to buy that 30-year-old LH property from you and to have to service its mortgage (of an old property with not many years left), albeit it's at a 'own family price', sans the agent's fee? Must the spouse oblige because his/her in laws want to cash out for retirement?

I'd also heard of parents selling the entire flat to 1 married child to cash out, let the child and spouse pay for the monthly instalments and utilities, while the parents and unmarried sibling(s) continue to live as occupiers in the flat.

Another equally bad scenario is the property is jointly owned by the parents and that child (excl. the spouse) via selling 50% share to the latter. The spouse doesn't own the property and quarrels with better half everyday. The other siblings decry unfairness.

Lots of different scenarios, and every family will need to work things out. Given goodwill on all sides, it can be worked out. My mother's youngest brother was left the largest share of the family home (he bought out the other siblings' smaller shares) on the understanding that my grandmother would live with him and he couldn't sell without her consent. My aunt and cousins lived amicably with my grandmother until her death in her 90s.

I my case, if both my kids want to buy the flat, they will have to come to some agreement over it, or we will just sell it on the open market. If only one is married, I guess that will be the one to buy over the flat as, realistically, it will take 2 incomes to afford it. Again, I hope that there will be goodwill on all sides, including the potential in-laws.