* Eunoia JC (EJC)
-
ezke\" post_id=\"1901110\" time=\"1551708160\" user_id=\"138513:
It’s hard to draw that conclusion without further info.
Given that there are 25 %JAE, and if the 75% of the IP kids really performed above-expectation (say >=85 UAS), I can conclude that the JAE kids would have performed below expectation for the mean UAS to be 82.4.thsheng99\" post_id=\"1900543\" time=\"1551425407\" user_id=\"37400:
...
With a UAS of 82.4 is close to or similar to the likes of NJC and VJC ( who has COP of 5-7)
...
However, it’s clear that on the whole, EJC performance for the pioneer batch isn’t that far off from NJC / VJC (I suspect both will still be marginally better), and is on par or better than TJC. I don't believe in this 'value-added' nonsense. The result is consistent with the quality provided by EJC three feeder school. -
floppy\" post_id=\"1901154\" time=\"1551749346\" user_id=\"97579:
If you don’t understand, I cannot help you. As lee_yl says, it’s statistics 101. I understand a crash course in statistics can be overwhelming for some elderly folks. Perhaps your grandchild who has gotten an A in Maths (I hope) has a better way of explaining to you (I hope again).[/quote]Your low 80s RP is at which range?
Mean must be = Median?Grandyma\" post_id=\"1901151\" time=\"1551748738\" user_id=\"153793:
[quote=floppy post_id=1901081 time=1551693609 user_id=97579]
If you take principal's comment at face value, median > 85 (however, we also know 5 in 10 could also mean 45%
).
If 50% of the students score between 85 and 90, an equal amount would have to score between 80 and 85 to have mean = median, or a better ratio for mean > median, which are very unlikely to be the case. Chances are, there will be a handful scoring in the 70s or lower. Hence, NYJC mean should also be in the low 80s. How low? Insufficient data to know.
Principal said ' MORE than 5 in 10' not 5 in 10
Dont understand yr login....hahaa but thanks.
But I did prove that Mean can be higher or lower than Median which was initially believed by the rest that Mean is always < Median.
Nyjc More than 5 in 10 got More than 85 pts. So more top scorers saturated on the positive skewed. Yes, there will low 70s scorers but P has said more than 50% got 85 pts or more.
Median will be > 85.0.
Other JCs with RP 83.X or more will also have 70s or lower scorers in the cohort, right??
Whats yr take for NJC Mean with its Median at 84.4?? -
Grandyma\" post_id=\"1901272\" time=\"1551766969\" user_id=\"153793:
:?
Your low 80s RP is at which range?
But I did prove that Mean can be higher or lower than Median which was initially believed by the rest that Mean is always < Median.
Nyjc More than 5 in 10 got More than 85 pts. So more top scorers saturated on the positive skewed. Yes, there will low 70s scorers but P has said more than 50% got 85 pts or more.
Median will be > 85.0.
Other JCs with RP 83.X or more will also have 70s or lower scorers in the cohort, right??
Whats yr take for NJC Mean with its Median at 84.4??
You didn't prove anything nor is there a need for you to.
There are only 3 possible outcome in statistics:
1. Mean = Median
2. Mean > Median
3. Mean < Median
I don't think there's anyone out there who believe in a fourth outcome. Given the way rank points are being distributed, what most people here are saying (and believing, correctly if I may add) is that schools with median > 8X is more likely to have a mean < 8X than a mean > or = 8X.
With that, welcome once again to Statistics 101.
I don't recall anyone here have disputed that it isn't possible for NYJC median to be > 85. Given that NYJC COP for 2017 is 7 / 6 for Arts / Science, why shouldn't more than 50% of the students do well? :scratchhead: What most people have an issue with, is comparing mean with median, and obfuscating the two. As you have said, there will be students in NYJC scoring in the low 70s. Therefore, I won't be surprised if NYJC mean is also in the low 80s. Same goes for NJC (with a median of 84.4). My range of low 80s? 80 to 82.5 i.e. same bracket as EJC, TJC. That said, it's fair to assume that NYJC (and NJC) should be closer to the higher end of that range. Apart from the two colleges named R and H, this is actually not a bad result at all (and why EJC is rightfully proud of the school's performance). -
floppy\" post_id=\"1901287\" time=\"1551771716\" user_id=\"97579:
Previously, forummers here believed that only Mean is always lower than Median right, if Im not wrong? Idk who said this and was accepted by the rest.
:?Grandyma\" post_id=\"1901272\" time=\"1551766969\" user_id=\"153793:
Your low 80s RP is at which range?
But I did prove that Mean can be higher or lower than Median which was initially believed by the rest that Mean is always < Median.
Nyjc More than 5 in 10 got More than 85 pts. So more top scorers saturated on the positive skewed. Yes, there will low 70s scorers but P has said more than 50% got 85 pts or more.
Median will be > 85.0.
Other JCs with RP 83.X or more will also have 70s or lower scorers in the cohort, right??
Whats yr take for NJC Mean with its Median at 84.4??
You didn't prove anything nor is there a need for you to.
There are only 3 possible outcome:
1. Mean = Median
2. Mean > Median
3. Mean < Median
With that, welcome to Statistics 101.
I don't recall anyone here has disputed that it isn't possible for NYJC median to be > 85. Given that NYJC COP for 2017 is 7 / 6 for Arts / Science, why shouldn't more than 50% of the students do well? :scratchhead:
What most people have an issue with, is comparing mean with median, and obfuscating the two. As you have said, there will be students in NYJC scoring in the low 70s. Therefore, I won't be surprised if NYJC mean is in the low 80s. Same goes for NJC. My range of low 80s? 80 to 82.5 (i.e. same bracket as EJC, TJC
). Apart from the two colleges named R and H, this is actually not a bad result.
Regarding those JCs with RP 83 and above, they also have low 70s scorers, why then RP can be 83 pt above? You havent explained.
Njc didnt reveal abt its % cohort performance overall RP so you said Njc RP can be 80-82.5, ok loh but to be confirmed.
But Nyjc revealed More than 50% with 85 pt above, in Mathematical logic, its Mean cant be 4-5 pts lower than its Median of > 85 pts.
You biased lei.
If say 1-3 pts lower If we take it to be negative skewed, then Nyjc RP can be 82.5 the lowest to 84.X the highest. -
Grandyma\" post_id=\"1901291\" time=\"1551773900\" user_id=\"153793:
\"forummers here believed that only Mean is always lower than Median right\"
Previously, forummers here believed that only Mean is always lower than Median right, if Im not wrong? Idk who said this and was accepted by the rest.
Regarding those JCs with RP 83 and above, they also have low 70s scorers, why then RP can be 83 pt above? You havent explained.
Njc didnt reveal abt its % cohort performance overall RP so you said Njc RP can be 80-82.5, ok loh but to be confirmed.
But Nyjc revealed More than 50% with 85 pt above, in Mathematical logic, its Mean cant be 5 pts lower than its Median of > 85 pts.
You biased lei.
If say 1-3 pts lower If we take it to be negative skewed, then Nyjc RP can be 82.5 the lowest to 84.X the highest.
> This is mischaracterizing what forummers say.
> As far as I can recall, forummers understand that there are 3 possible outcomes and mean < median is the most likely outcome (ok, most forummers understand... there are some stubborn ones who
).
\"Regarding those JCs with RP 83 and above, they also have low 70s scorers, why then RP can be 83 pt above?\"
> Which are the JCs? I don't know.
> As to why? Because there are 3 possible outcomes (I'm also getting old, sound like a broken record ). When it is said that mean < median is the most likely outcome, it doesn't mean that it is the ONLY possible outcome.
> Without conjuring my Harry Potter self, I can tell you that RP > 83 is easier to achieve a 'mean > median' than for RP > 85 to do so (although both is quite unlikely, statistically speaking).
> A distribution like this:
70, 75, 82, 82, 82, 83, 88, 89, 90, 90, 90 will have a median of 83 and a mean of 83.7, i.e. mean > median.
\"But Nyjc revealed More than 50% with 85 pt above, in Mathematical logic, its Mean cant be 5 pts lower than its Median of > 85 pts.\"
> Ok, understandable why you get that impression. You quoted my first draft.
> This is what I added:
\"That said, it's fair to assume that NYJC (and NJC) should be closer to the higher end of that range.\"
> Based on what had been shared by NYJC, I don't think NYJC mean is anywhere near to 84.x. It's the data that has NOT been shared that often shines the brightest.
> And \"more than 50% with 85 pt above...\" is not mathematics. It's a statement, and a fairly useless one where statistics and mathematics are concerned. Based on mathematical logic, it's mean CAN absolutely be 5 points lower than median. However, based on statistical analysis, this is an extremely unlikely (but not impossible) scenario. Two different things.
> A distribution like this:
70, 70, 71, 71, 80, 85, 86, 86, 86, 87, 88 will have a median of 85 and a mean of 80.0, i.e mean < median by 5 points.
A bit more of these and we can move on to Statistics 201. -
Floppy, perhaps you want to start collecting tuition fees from Ah Ma.
Its obvious she know nuts about statistics 101. Start at statistics 51 level more to her ability -
floppy\" post_id=\"1901296\" time=\"1551775370\" user_id=\"97579:
\"forummers here believed that only Mean is always lower than Median right\"Grandyma\" post_id=\"1901291\" time=\"1551773900\" user_id=\"153793:[quote=Grandyma post_id=1901291 time=1551773900 user_id=153793]
Previously, forummers here believed that only Mean is always lower than Median right, if Im not wrong? Idk who said this and was accepted by the rest.
Regarding those JCs with RP 83 and above, they also have low 70s scorers, why then RP can be 83 pt above? You havent explained.
Njc didnt reveal abt its % cohort performance overall RP so you said Njc RP can be 80-82.5, ok loh but to be confirmed.
But Nyjc revealed More than 50% with 85 pt above, in Mathematical logic, its Mean cant be 5 pts lower than its Median of > 85 pts.
You biased lei.
If say 1-3 pts lower If we take it to be negative skewed, then Nyjc RP can be 82.5 the lowest to 84.X the highest.
> This is mischaracterizing what forummers say.
> As far as I can recall, forummers understand that there are 3 possible outcomes and mean < median is the most likely outcome (ok, most forummers understand... there are some stubborn ones who ).
\"Regarding those JCs with RP 83 and above, they also have low 70s scorers, why then RP can be 83 pt above?\"
> Which are the JCs? I don't know.
ANS: you asked me which JCs: VJC, RV, DH. These JCs RP > 83 so you mean they dun have low 70s scorers?? Cant be.
Also, these JCs you Confirm their Median are so high above 86 thats why RP is 83.X??
> As to why? Because there are 3 possible outcomes (I'm also getting old, sound like a broken record ). When it is said that mean < median is the most likely outcome, it doesn't mean that it is the ONLY possible outcome.
ANS: Wa, now you bring in more complex theory. So you mean Nyjc or even Njc Mean can > Medium??
> Without conjuring my Harry Potter self, I can also tell you that RP > 83 is easier to achieve a 'mean > median' than for RP > 85 to do so (although both is quite unlikely, statistically speaking). A distribution like this:
70, 75, 82, 82, 82, 83, 88, 89, 90, 90, 90 will have a median of 83 and a mean of 83.7, i.e. mean > median.
ANS: above eg, so why cant Nyjc have a Mean closer to its Median of 85.X or slight lesser since 50% more with > 85pts??
\"But Nyjc revealed More than 50% with 85 pt above, in Mathematical logic, its Mean cant be 5 pts lower than its Median of > 85 pts.\"
> Ok, understandable why you get that impression. You quoted my first draft.
> This is what I added:
\"That said, it's fair to assume that NYJC (and NJC) should be closer to the higher end of that range.\"
> Based on what had been shared by NYJC, I don't think NYJC mean is anywhere near to 84.x. It's the data that has NOT been shared that often shines the brightest.
> And \"more than 50% with 85 pt above\" is not mathematics. It's a statement, and a fairly useless one where statistics and mathematics are concern. Based on mathematical logic, it's mean CAN absolutely be 5 points lower than median. However, based on statistical analysis, this is an extremely unlikely (but not impossible) scenario. Two different things.
ANS: its a statement that rep how the cohort has performed and with integrity announced by Principal.
Of course, with a statement like this since you are prone towards EJC, you will not believe. Its normal you choose not to believe even though its true. Learn to trust, friend.
You always give 2 diff versions- possible yet again impossible. Be certain lei.
Dont need to bring out more Maths term.
If you ask around out there now ( not in KSP forum), peope including students know where does Nyjc stand among the top tier/IPJC now based on 2018 results.
Have a gd evening. -
Grandypa\" post_id=\"1901314\" time=\"1551779546\" user_id=\"154562:
Dont worry, I choose to believe in whats worth.
Floppy, perhaps you want to start collecting tuition fees from Ah Ma.
Its obvious she know nuts about statistics 101. Start at statistics 51 level more to her ability
Dont need tuition. -
It’s the characteristic of the population;
If mean = median, then likely the scores will be spaced out uniformly, equally high number of high and low scores.
If mean > median, the high scorers do extremely well but the poor scorers do badly and significant in numbers!!
If mean < median, likely the high scorers do very well but most of the population still perform well enough and only a handful doesn’t perform well at all.
The top JCs exhibit such traits which is why I think median UAS usually higher than mean UAS.
If for the first case where mean = median, then likely a middling JC while for mean > median, I think you will find it in some Pre-U Centres where you find good performers but many more poor scorers!! -
lee_yl\" post_id=\"1901324\" time=\"1551781500\" user_id=\"17023:
Perhaps Ah Ma was insinuating that NJC and NYJC are no better than Pre U centers when she insist their mean>median?
It’s the characteristic of the population;
If mean = median, then likely the scores will be spaced out uniformly, equally high number of high and low scores.
If mean > median, the high scorers do extremely well but the poor scorers do badly and significant in numbers!!
If mean < median, likely the high scorers do very well but most of the population still perform well enough and only a handful doesn’t perform well at all.
The top JCs exhibit such traits which is why I think median UAS usually higher than mean UAS.
If for the first case where mean = median, then likely a middling JC while for mean > median, I think you will find it in some Pre-U Centres where you find good performers but many more poor scorers!!
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