* Eunoia JC (EJC)
-
floppy\" post_id=\"1901296\" time=\"1551775370\" user_id=\"97579:
\"forummers here believed that only Mean is always lower than Median right\"Grandyma\" post_id=\"1901291\" time=\"1551773900\" user_id=\"153793:[quote=Grandyma post_id=1901291 time=1551773900 user_id=153793]
Previously, forummers here believed that only Mean is always lower than Median right, if Im not wrong? Idk who said this and was accepted by the rest.
Regarding those JCs with RP 83 and above, they also have low 70s scorers, why then RP can be 83 pt above? You havent explained.
Njc didnt reveal abt its % cohort performance overall RP so you said Njc RP can be 80-82.5, ok loh but to be confirmed.
But Nyjc revealed More than 50% with 85 pt above, in Mathematical logic, its Mean cant be 5 pts lower than its Median of > 85 pts.
You biased lei.
If say 1-3 pts lower If we take it to be negative skewed, then Nyjc RP can be 82.5 the lowest to 84.X the highest.
> This is mischaracterizing what forummers say.
> As far as I can recall, forummers understand that there are 3 possible outcomes and mean < median is the most likely outcome (ok, most forummers understand... there are some stubborn ones who
).
\"Regarding those JCs with RP 83 and above, they also have low 70s scorers, why then RP can be 83 pt above?\"
> Which are the JCs? I don't know.
ANS: you asked me which JCs: VJC, RV, DH. These JCs RP > 83 so you mean they dun have low 70s scorers?? Cant be.
Also, these JCs you Confirm their Median are so high above 86 thats why RP is 83.X??
> As to why? Because there are 3 possible outcomes (I'm also getting old, sound like a broken record
). When it is said that mean < median is the most likely outcome, it doesn't mean that it is the ONLY possible outcome.
ANS: Wa, now you bring in more complex theory. So you mean Nyjc or even Njc Mean can > Medium??
> Without conjuring my Harry Potter self, I can also tell you that RP > 83 is easier to achieve a 'mean > median' than for RP > 85 to do so (although both is quite unlikely, statistically speaking). A distribution like this:
70, 75, 82, 82, 82, 83, 88, 89, 90, 90, 90 will have a median of 83 and a mean of 83.7, i.e. mean > median.
ANS: above eg, so why cant Nyjc have a Mean closer to its Median of 85.X or slight lesser since 50% more with > 85pts??
\"But Nyjc revealed More than 50% with 85 pt above, in Mathematical logic, its Mean cant be 5 pts lower than its Median of > 85 pts.\"
> Ok, understandable why you get that impression. You quoted my first draft.
> This is what I added:
\"That said, it's fair to assume that NYJC (and NJC) should be closer to the higher end of that range.\"
> Based on what had been shared by NYJC, I don't think NYJC mean is anywhere near to 84.x. It's the data that has NOT been shared that often shines the brightest.
> And \"more than 50% with 85 pt above\" is not mathematics. It's a statement, and a fairly useless one where statistics and mathematics are concern. Based on mathematical logic, it's mean CAN absolutely be 5 points lower than median. However, based on statistical analysis, this is an extremely unlikely (but not impossible) scenario. Two different things.
ANS: its a statement that rep how the cohort has performed and with integrity announced by Principal.
Of course, with a statement like this since you are prone towards EJC, you will not believe. Its normal you choose not to believe even though its true. Learn to trust, friend.
You always give 2 diff versions- possible yet again impossible. Be certain lei.
Dont need to bring out more Maths term.
If you ask around out there now ( not in KSP forum), peope including students know where does Nyjc stand among the top tier/IPJC now based on 2018 results.
Have a gd evening. -
Grandypa\" post_id=\"1901314\" time=\"1551779546\" user_id=\"154562:
Dont worry, I choose to believe in whats worth.
Floppy, perhaps you want to start collecting tuition fees from Ah Ma.
Its obvious she know nuts about statistics 101. Start at statistics 51 level more to her ability
Dont need tuition. -
It’s the characteristic of the population;
If mean = median, then likely the scores will be spaced out uniformly, equally high number of high and low scores.
If mean > median, the high scorers do extremely well but the poor scorers do badly and significant in numbers!!
If mean < median, likely the high scorers do very well but most of the population still perform well enough and only a handful doesn’t perform well at all.
The top JCs exhibit such traits which is why I think median UAS usually higher than mean UAS.
If for the first case where mean = median, then likely a middling JC while for mean > median, I think you will find it in some Pre-U Centres where you find good performers but many more poor scorers!! -
lee_yl\" post_id=\"1901324\" time=\"1551781500\" user_id=\"17023:
Perhaps Ah Ma was insinuating that NJC and NYJC are no better than Pre U centers when she insist their mean>median?
It’s the characteristic of the population;
If mean = median, then likely the scores will be spaced out uniformly, equally high number of high and low scores.
If mean > median, the high scorers do extremely well but the poor scorers do badly and significant in numbers!!
If mean < median, likely the high scorers do very well but most of the population still perform well enough and only a handful doesn’t perform well at all.
The top JCs exhibit such traits which is why I think median UAS usually higher than mean UAS.
If for the first case where mean = median, then likely a middling JC while for mean > median, I think you will find it in some Pre-U Centres where you find good performers but many more poor scorers!! -
Grandypa\" post_id=\"1901326\" time=\"1551782562\" user_id=\"154562:
Only a person having such bad thought in the first place will use such word.
Perhaps Ah Ma was insinuating that NJC and NYJC are no better than Pre U centers when she insist their mean>median?lee_yl\" post_id=\"1901324\" time=\"1551781500\" user_id=\"17023:
It’s the characteristic of the population;
If mean = median, then likely the scores will be spaced out uniformly, equally high number of high and low scores.
If mean > median, the high scorers do extremely well but the poor scorers do badly and significant in numbers!!
If mean < median, likely the high scorers do very well but most of the population still perform well enough and only a handful doesn’t perform well at all.
The top JCs exhibit such traits which is why I think median UAS usually higher than mean UAS.
If for the first case where mean = median, then likely a middling JC while for mean > median, I think you will find it in some Pre-U Centres where you find good performers but many more poor scorers!!
Pls dont under estimate Pre-U centres. -
floppy\" post_id=\"1901287\" time=\"1551771716\" user_id=\"97579:
Why you chose num from 80-82.5 as your range? Why not any higher range?
:?Grandyma\" post_id=\"1901272\" time=\"1551766969\" user_id=\"153793:
Your low 80s RP is at which range?
But I did prove that Mean can be higher or lower than Median which was initially believed by the rest that Mean is always < Median.
Nyjc More than 5 in 10 got More than 85 pts. So more top scorers saturated on the positive skewed. Yes, there will low 70s scorers but P has said more than 50% got 85 pts or more.
Median will be > 85.0.
Other JCs with RP 83.X or more will also have 70s or lower scorers in the cohort, right??
Whats yr take for NJC Mean with its Median at 84.4??
You didn't prove anything nor is there a need for you to.
There are only 3 possible outcome in statistics:
1. Mean = Median
2. Mean > Median
3. Mean < Median
I don't think there's anyone out there who believe in a fourth outcome. Given the way rank points are being distributed, what most people here are saying (and believing, correctly if I may add) is that schools with median > 8X is more likely to have a mean < 8X than a mean > or = 8X.
With that, welcome once again to Statistics 101.
I don't recall anyone here have disputed that it isn't possible for NYJC median to be > 85. Given that NYJC COP for 2017 is 7 / 6 for Arts / Science, why shouldn't more than 50% of the students do well? :scratchhead: What most people have an issue with, is comparing mean with median, and obfuscating the two. As you have said, there will be students in NYJC scoring in the low 70s. Therefore, I won't be surprised if NYJC mean is also in the low 80s. Same goes for NJC (with a median of 84.4). My range of low 80s? 80 to 82.5 i.e. same bracket as EJC, TJC. That said, it's fair to assume that NYJC (and NJC) should be closer to the higher end of that range. Apart from the two colleges named R and H, this is actually not a bad result at all (and why EJC is rightfully proud of the school's performance).
You have no base lei? -
[quote]ANS: you asked me which JCs: VJC, RV, DH. These JCs RP > 83 so you mean they dun have low 70s scorers?? Cant be.
Also, these JCs you Confirm their Median are so high above 86 thats why RP is 83.X??[/quote]The median can be 84 or 85. It doesn't have to be \"so high\", but that's beside the point. The answer lies in the population distribution.
Do VJC / RV / DHS have low 70s scorers? Possibly. In fact, they probably have a few students scoring lower than that given that their 3H2 passing rate is not 100%. Notwithstanding, we can reasonably assume that the scores for the rest of their cohort are very narrowly distributed and is more likely to skew towards the higher end because of the distribution of the IP students.
You can also refer to lee_yl post for an understanding about the characteristic of the population.
[quote]ANS: Wa, now you bring in more complex theory. So you mean Nyjc or even Njc Mean can > Medium??[/quote]Complex meh? Maybe Statistics is not suitable for you.
[quote]ANS: above eg, so why cant Nyjc have a Mean closer to its Median of 85.X or slight lesser since 50% more with > 85pts??[/quote]Because NYJC doesn't share it's data which allows people like us to make things up.
However, I think we can reasonably assume passing rate for the school is < 100%. We can also reasonably assume that the results of the school is more widely distributed than the IP colleges because the intake of the students is widely varied. While COP is an indicator of the quality of the cohort, it doesn't fully explain / show the quality as a lot of people seem to assume, i.e. how many students qualify due to affiliation, bonus points, how many students have chosen easier subject combinations like combined science / combined humanities / Art / D&T / FNA, etc in O Level. Despite the IP schools having a better controlled sample, very few IP colleges are able to achieve mean closer or slightly lesser to its median. My bet is NYJC isn't going to be an outlier.
[quote]ANS: its a statement that rep how the cohort has performed and with integrity announced by Principal.
Of course, with a statement like this since you are prone towards EJC, you will not believe. Its normal you choose not to believe even though its true. Learn to trust, friend.[/quote]I have no reasons to be bias towards EJC. Didn't graduate from there nor have any direct dealings with the 3 feeder schools. I don't choose to believe or trust, I just don't refute the numbers. Until NYJC is able to provide more data and be more transparent (you know... like most of the top tier JCs), I would prefer to take everything with a pinch of salt. Finally, don't take the P (any P) statement literally. They are all full of hyperbole. I highly doubt you can find one Principal among the hundreds of Pri, Sec and JC principals who will step up and tell you that his / her school sucks (even though you / I / he / she / it knows that some schools really suck).
[quote]You always give 2 diff versions- possible yet again impossible. Be certain lei.
Dont need to bring out more Maths term.
If you ask around out there now ( not in KSP forum), peope including students know where does Nyjc stand among the top tier/IPJC now based on 2018 results.[/quote]Did I give 2 different versions? This is Statistics: there will always be conditions, if / or statements involved. Nothing is absolute, unless you are counting the number of times the sun will rise from the west.
IMHO, 2018 didn't change much of NYJC narrative:
Is she a good JC? Yes.
Is she a top-top tier JC? :roll: IMHO, the school has a long way to go before she catches up with RJC, HCI, VJC and NJC. The cliche we often used is \"form is temporary, class is permanent\". Until NYJC sustain the results consistently, we won't know where it truly stands. Right now, it's simply the \"best of the rest\". I think it's no mean feat for just being alongside the likes of RV / DHS / TJC.
As for asking people, including students, really?
You know nothing, Jon Snow.
At this rate, better to drop Statistics totally than to attempt Statistics 201. -
Grandyma\" post_id=\"1901327\" time=\"1551783693\" user_id=\"153793:
What word?
Only a person having such bad thought in the first place will use such word.Grandypa\" post_id=\"1901326\" time=\"1551782562\" user_id=\"154562:
Perhaps Ah Ma was insinuating that NJC and NYJC are no better than Pre U centers when she insist their mean>median?
Pls dont under estimate Pre-U centres. -
floppy\" post_id=\"1901329\" time=\"1551785450\" user_id=\"97579:
NYJC does not reveal many details about her performance. And many people often wonder why they are so secretive about it. It is definitely not top tier, just a good heartland JC.
IMHO, 2018 didn't change much of NYJC narrative:
it a good JC? Yes.
Is it a top-top tier JC? Unfortunately, it has a long way to catch up with RJC, HCI, VJC and NJC. The cliche we often used is \"Form is temporary, class is permanent\". Until NYJC can sustain the results consistently, we won't know where it truly stands. Right now, it's simply the \"best of the rest\". -
floppy\" post_id=\"1901329\" time=\"1551785450\" user_id=\"97579:The median can be 84 or 85. It doesn't have to be \"so high\", but that's beside the point. The answer lies in the population distribution.
Complex meh? Maybe Statistics is not suitable for you.
Do VJC / RV / DHS have low 70s scorers? Possibly. In fact, they probably have a few students scoring lower than that given that their 3H2 passing rate is not 100%. Notwithstanding, we can reasonably assume that the scores for the rest of their cohort are very narrowly distributed and is more likely to skew towards the higher end because of the distribution of the IP students.
###ANS: you dont know these JCs population distribution- so wont know their Median?
\" few scoring lower/ low 70s\"- how you know?
\"cohort narrowly distributed\"- VJC has abt 50% IP kids only.
You like to assume.
You can also refer to lee_yl post for an understanding about the characteristic of the population.
[quote]ANS: Wa, now you bring in more complex theory. So you mean Nyjc or even Njc Mean can > Medium??
[quote]ANS: above eg, so why cant Nyjc have a Mean closer to its Median of 85.X or slight lesser since 50% more with > 85pts??[/quote]Because NYJC doesn't share it's data which allows people like us to make things up.
###ANS: so what you or others( EJC forummers) hv commented are based on assumption.
However, I think we can reasonably assume passing rate for the school is < 100%. We can also reasonably assume that the results of the school is more widely distributed than the IP colleges because the intake of the students is widely varied. While COP is an indicator of the quality of the cohort, it doesn't fully explain / show the quality as a lot of people seem to assume, i.e. how many students qualify due to affiliation, bonus points, how many students have chosen easier subject combinations like combined science / combined humanities / Art / D&T / FNA, etc in O Level. Despite the IP schools having a better controlled sample, very few IP colleges are able to achieve mean closer or slightly lesser to its median. My bet is NYJC isn't going to be an outlier.
###ANS: whats the issue with its intake? Yes, intake is widely varied but doesnt mean such cohort cant get high score. Right?
whats the issue with combined Sci kids. Cant they do well in A level when in Nyjc?
Look down on people that these kids will be on the lower end, is it?
[quote]ANS: its a statement that rep how the cohort has performed and with integrity announced by Principal.
Of course, with a statement like this since you are prone towards EJC, you will not believe. Its normal you choose not to believe even though its true. Learn to trust, friend.[/quote]I have no reasons to be bias towards EJC. Didn't graduate from there nor have any direct dealings with the 3 feeder schools. I don't choose to believe or trust, I just don't refute the numbers. Until NYJC is able to provide more data and be more transparent (you know... like most of the top tier JCs), I would prefer to take everything with a pinch of salt. Finally, don't take the P (any P) statement literally. They are all full of hyperbole. I highly doubt you can find one Principal among the hundreds of Pri, Sec and JC principals who will step up and tell you that his / her school sucks (even though you / I / he / she / it knows that some schools really suck).
###ANS: bias as your take for Njc, Nyjc RP range below 82.5.
No principals wont critizise his school but he knows whats integrity and his words are being heard.
You n other forummers here dont trust people, do you hv friends? I wonder.
[quote]You always give 2 diff versions- possible yet again impossible. Be certain lei.
Dont need to bring out more Maths term.
If you ask around out there now ( not in KSP forum), peope including students know where does Nyjc stand among the top tier/IPJC now based on 2018 results.[/quote]Did I give 2 different versions? This is Statistics: there will always be conditions, if / or statements involved. Nothing is absolute, unless you are counting the number of times the sun will rise from the west.
IMHO, 2018 didn't change much of NYJC narrative:
Is she a good JC? Yes.
Is she a top-top tier JC? :roll: IMHO, the school has a long way to go before she catches up with RJC, HCI, VJC and NJC. The cliche we often used is \"form is temporary, class is permanent\". Until NYJC sustain the results consistently, we won't know where it truly stands. Right now, it's simply the \"best of the rest\". I think it's no mean feat for just being alongside the likes of RV / DHS / TJC.
###ANS: other than those regular forummers who support or believe yr words, go out n find out yrself Nyjc tier.
\"Catches up\" ... among that JCs, you should go n ask around.
You dk?
As for asking people, including students, really?
###ANS: Yup.
You know nothing, Jon Snow.
At this rate, better to drop Statistics totally than to attempt Statistics 201.[/quote]
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