Choosing and Evaluating Primary Schools
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floppy\" post_id=\"1915323\" time=\"1561119356\" user_id=\"97579:
\"And there are a handful of secular single-gender schools (which generally have remained popular too).\"
Ahhh, careful there Chiefzac's mum\" post_id=\"1915296\" time=\"1561105799\" user_id=\"53606:[quote=\"zac's mum\" post_id=1915296 time=1561105799 user_id=53606]
If I'm you, i would rather place my kids in different schools to maximise their potential. A coed school is different from a single sex school and the kids learn to react differently. I prefer a single sex school when the child is younger so that the child can be more relaxed with his/her same gender, but some others may prefer having a coed school. The problem is when you have a perfect family of different sexes you can't send them to the same school. More diversity, more trouble, but better customization
Us parents all know you’re right, from our own observations and experiences.
But why aren’t the new schools that MOE comes up with single-gender? They are invariably co-ed. Neither are they interested in conducting research or academic studies into single-gender schools leading to better output/wellbeing for the kids (though they have happily researched & removed exams for the well-being of the kids).
The bulk of the single-gender schools are religiously linked. And there are a handful of secular single-gender schools (which generally have remained popular too). But no new ones and certainly not in the burgeoning northeast population boom towns.
There are, to be precise, only 3 such schools left. They are namely, HGS, RGPS and SCGPS - all girls' schools andof which only HGS and RGPS are the remaining government single-gender primary schools left.
Single-gender schools popular? Debatable. If popularity is based on which schools are completely filled by Phase 2Cs, the numbers tell a different tale. There are 25 single-gender schools remaining (9 boys, 16 girls). While a number of them remain highly popular, at least 8 of them (> 30%) struggle to fill up every year. And that's despite having affiliation bonus, religious affiliation, and being historical schools for most of them! Furthermore, some of the single-gender schools are going or had gone co-ed: De La Salle School and Canossa Catholic Primary / Canossa Convent Primary (which will reduce the number of single-gender schools to 24 next year).[/quote]zac's mum\" post_id=\"1915325\" time=\"1561120277\" user_id=\"53606:[quote=\"zac's mum\" post_id=1915325 time=1561120277 user_id=53606]The ones that are merging/struggling to fill their places are very specifically, Catholic single-gender schools.
I think this debate here is too late for most parents for this year's registration. I think most parents, even those in Bukit Timah with the means, live in a world where convenience and a shorter commute matters more. Most single sex schools are, as pointed out, are in certain parts of Singapore that may not reflect the great move by new parents towards public housing (e.g. Sengkang/Punggol). Historically, these single sex schools were founded in areas that reflected the demand in the past. Some have been forced to move (e.g De La Salle) and subsequently turned co-ed by the MOE. Would it have turned co-ed if it had relocated to an area like Bukit Timah or Bukit Panjang or Punggol?. I doubt it is because of lack of interest in single sex schools by parents or MOE that some struggle with enrolment. For the MOE part, I am sure they see the bigger picture and are happy to let some schools exists for planning purposes and the benefits of single sex education may be found in secondary schools rather than in primary schools if the child proves his or her worth in getting into the top schools with or without affiliation. For parents, most would try to keep their alumni links if the single sex schools met their needs, and for those without links, they would naturally aim for the \"best\" outcome given they housing needs, gender of the children, commute etc...that even those with links may consider more important than the advantage of placing their children in single sex schools. If it was just a matter of moving single sex schools with low enrolment to current and future population centres, I am sure they would fill up quite readily.
I think there are too many of them around to choose from, and in some far flung locations too, hence the falling enrollment. None of them provide a spectacular unique standout pull factor over the others.[/quote] -
Hendon\" post_id=\"1921181\" time=\"1563659712\" user_id=\"142376:
Unfortunately, the data suggests otherwise. Montfort Junior and St. Anthony’s Convent moved into Hougang and Bedok North (both current / future population centre) in 1992 and 1995 from their old location but they have yet to be filled up readily. Other single gender schools that are struggling in terms of enrolment, and filling up only in Phase 2Cs or not at all, despite being in current / future population centres are: Serangoon - CHIJ OLGC, St Gab, Toa Payoh - Marymount Convent, etc. If you compare some of their enrolment vis-a-vis schools nearby, they are clearly not attracting as many students as the neighbouring schools.
I think this debate here is too late for most parents for this year's registration. I think most parents, even those in Bukit Timah with the means, live in a world where convenience and a shorter commute matters more. Most single sex schools are, as pointed out, are in certain parts of Singapore that may not reflect the great move by new parents towards public housing (e.g. Sengkang/Punggol). Historically, these single sex schools were founded in areas that reflected the demand in the past. Some have been forced to move (e.g De La Salle) and subsequently turned co-ed by the MOE. Would it have turned co-ed if it had relocated to an area like Bukit Timah or Bukit Panjang or Punggol?. I doubt it is because of lack of interest in single sex schools by parents or MOE that some struggle with enrolment. For the MOE part, I am sure they see the bigger picture and are happy to let some schools exists for planning purposes and the benefits of single sex education may be found in secondary schools rather than in primary schools if the child proves his or her worth in getting into the top schools with or without affiliation. For parents, most would try to keep their alumni links if the single sex schools met their needs, and for those without links, they would naturally aim for the \"best\" outcome given they housing needs, gender of the children, commute etc...that even those with links may consider more important than the advantage of placing their children in single sex schools. If it was just a matter of moving single sex schools with low enrolment to current and future population centres, I am sure they would fill up quite readily.
Will shifting into new population centres help? Probably, if there aren't any viable alternatives in those estates. I see Sengkang and Punggol as examples of estates without strong alternatives. As for the rest? Probably not. Turning co-ed or maintaining a small single gender cohort are arguably their only viable solutions.
The other thing is, with the exception of a few, most co-ed schools are government-aided schools. Therefore, MOE didn't turn them co-ed, the decision to do so is made by the school management. -
floppy\" post_id=\"1921189\" time=\"1563677500\" user_id=\"97579:
I have to disagree. The schools you mentioned are found in mature estates with smaller proportion of young parents - Bedok, Toa Payoh, Serangoon, Hougang. Some are attracting parents (who don't mind their kids commute) from Tampines / Pasir Ris, Sengkang / Punggol , the concentration of single sex schools in the Hougang / Serangoon / Toa Payoh areas compete directly with the choice schools in Bishan. There is also the question of affiliation with Marymount without a secondary school, and St Gabs, Montford Jr and SAC all suffering from poor reputation (which may be unfair despite its best efforts) of its secondary schools.
Unfortunately, the data suggests otherwise. Some of the single gender schools are still struggling in terms of enrolment, and filling up only in Phase 2Cs or not at all, despite being in current / future population centres.Hendon\" post_id=\"1921181\" time=\"1563659712\" user_id=\"142376:
I think this debate here is too late for most parents for this year's registration. I think most parents, even those in Bukit Timah with the means, live in a world where convenience and a shorter commute matters more. Most single sex schools are, as pointed out, are in certain parts of Singapore that may not reflect the great move by new parents towards public housing (e.g. Sengkang/Punggol). Historically, these single sex schools were founded in areas that reflected the demand in the past. Some have been forced to move (e.g De La Salle) and subsequently turned co-ed by the MOE. Would it have turned co-ed if it had relocated to an area like Bukit Timah or Bukit Panjang or Punggol?. I doubt it is because of lack of interest in single sex schools by parents or MOE that some struggle with enrolment. For the MOE part, I am sure they see the bigger picture and are happy to let some schools exists for planning purposes and the benefits of single sex education may be found in secondary schools rather than in primary schools if the child proves his or her worth in getting into the top schools with or without affiliation. For parents, most would try to keep their alumni links if the single sex schools met their needs, and for those without links, they would naturally aim for the \"best\" outcome given they housing needs, gender of the children, commute etc...that even those with links may consider more important than the advantage of placing their children in single sex schools. If it was just a matter of moving single sex schools with low enrolment to current and future population centres, I am sure they would fill up quite readily.
Examples: Bedok - St Anthony Canossian, Serangoon - CHIJ OLGC, St Gab, Toa Payoh - Marymount Convent, Hougang - Montford Junior, etc. If you compare their enrolment vis-a-vis schools nearby, they are clearly not attracting as many students as they could and unable to persuade students who are facing ballot in other schools to consider their school.
The other thing is, with the exception of a few, most co-ed schools are government-aided schools. Therefore, MOE didn't turn them co-ed, the decision to do so is made by the school management.
With CHJI OLN, CHIJ OLGC, it has PLMGS and SNGS, and possibly CHIJ TP to compete with. For boy schools, Montford, St Gabs compete with Maris Stella and possibly Holy Innocent.
Your last point is also wrong, most government aided schools are single sex not co-ed. It makes no sense for a boy school that feeds into SJI to turn co-ed if not for MOE. -
Hendon\" post_id=\"1921198\" time=\"1563679553\" user_id=\"142376:
I have to disagree. The schools you mentioned are found in mature estates with smaller proportion of young parents - Bedok, Toa Payoh, Serangoon, Hougang. Some are attracting parents (who don't mind their kids commute) from Tampines / Pasir Ris, Sengkang / Punggol , the concentration of single sex schools in the Hougang / Serangoon / Toa Payoh areas compete directly with the choice schools in Bishan. There is also the question of affiliation with Marymount without a secondary school, and St Gabs, Montford Jr and SAC all suffering from poor reputation (which may be unfair despite its best efforts) of its secondary schools.
Unfortunately, the data suggests otherwise. Some of the single gender schools are still struggling in terms of enrolment, and filling up only in Phase 2Cs or not at all, despite being in current / future population centres.floppy\" post_id=\"1921189\" time=\"1563677500\" user_id=\"97579:
[quote=Hendon post_id=1921181 time=1563659712 user_id=142376]
I think this debate here is too late for most parents for this year's registration. I think most parents, even those in Bukit Timah with the means, live in a world where convenience and a shorter commute matters more. Most single sex schools are, as pointed out, are in certain parts of Singapore that may not reflect the great move by new parents towards public housing (e.g. Sengkang/Punggol). Historically, these single sex schools were founded in areas that reflected the demand in the past. Some have been forced to move (e.g De La Salle) and subsequently turned co-ed by the MOE. Would it have turned co-ed if it had relocated to an area like Bukit Timah or Bukit Panjang or Punggol?. I doubt it is because of lack of interest in single sex schools by parents or MOE that some struggle with enrolment. For the MOE part, I am sure they see the bigger picture and are happy to let some schools exists for planning purposes and the benefits of single sex education may be found in secondary schools rather than in primary schools if the child proves his or her worth in getting into the top schools with or without affiliation. For parents, most would try to keep their alumni links if the single sex schools met their needs, and for those without links, they would naturally aim for the \"best\" outcome given they housing needs, gender of the children, commute etc...that even those with links may consider more important than the advantage of placing their children in single sex schools. If it was just a matter of moving single sex schools with low enrolment to current and future population centres, I am sure they would fill up quite readily.
Examples: Bedok - St Anthony Canossian, Serangoon - CHIJ OLGC, St Gab, Toa Payoh - Marymount Convent, Hougang - Montford Junior, etc. If you compare their enrolment vis-a-vis schools nearby, they are clearly not attracting as many students as they could and unable to persuade students who are facing ballot in other schools to consider their school.
The other thing is, with the exception of a few, most co-ed schools are government-aided schools. Therefore, MOE didn't turn them co-ed, the decision to do so is made by the school management.
With CHJI OLN, CHIJ OLGC, it has PLMGS and SNGS, and possibly CHIJ TP to compete with. For boy schools, Montford, St Gabs compete with Maris Stella and possibly Holy Innocent.
Your last point is also wrong, most government aided schools are single sex not co-ed. It makes no sense for a boy school that feeds into SJI to turn co-ed if not for MOE.[/quote]Typo on my last point, most single-gender (not co-ed) schools are government-aided schools. Government-aided schools have autonomy over how they operate. Hence, the decision to turn a boy school that feeds into SJI is largely down to the school and not MOE. Similarly, the decision to turn https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/education/canossa-convent-to-go-co-ed-next-year which feeds into a girls' school (Saint Anthony's Canossian) is down to the school management.
Competition with neighbouring schools is a given. Are you suggesting that there are too many single gender schools around? Given your take on Montfort Jr and SAC, moving single gender schools with low enrolment to current and future population centres would not result in them being filled up quite readily if their affiliated secondary schools have poor reputation. On the other hand, schools like De La Salle feeds into, not one but, two schools, including a highly reputable one. It is in a current population centre and yet, enrolment is still behind non-affiliated / non-historical schools. De La Salle also serves as an interesting contrast to St Anthony's Primary, which feeds into the same schools, was also converted from single-gender to co-ed and is situated in a similar estate, but has remained fairly popular.
Would some estates, such as Punggol and Seng Kang, welcome a single-gender primary school? Definitely, in terms of choice and offering to parents who may also be looking for schools align with their religious values, given that most single-gender primary schools are also missionary schools. To suggest that they would be filled up readily, however, is wide of the mark. Geography is an important consideration, as always, but gender of a school matters little when compared to parents' perception of the 'quality' of the school - single-gender is a 'good-to-have' and not a 'must-have'. Therefore, moving Montfort or SAC to Punggol or Sengkang would probably not result in a huge increase in their enrolment if the concerns that caused them to be sidelined by parents in Hougang or Bedok remain unchanged.
We probably would have to agree to disagree. -
floppy\" post_id=\"1921215\" time=\"1563684615\" user_id=\"97579:
Typo on my last point, most single-gender (not co-ed) schools are government-aided schools. Government-aided schools have autonomy over how they operate. Hence, the decision to turn a boy school that feeds into SJI is largely down to the school and not MOE. Similarly, the decision to turn https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/education/canossa-convent-to-go-co-ed-next-year which feeds into a girls' school (Saint Anthony's Canossian) is down to the school management.
I have to disagree. The schools you mentioned are found in mature estates with smaller proportion of young parents - Bedok, Toa Payoh, Serangoon, Hougang. Some are attracting parents (who don't mind their kids commute) from Tampines / Pasir Ris, Sengkang / Punggol , the concentration of single sex schools in the Hougang / Serangoon / Toa Payoh areas compete directly with the choice schools in Bishan. There is also the question of affiliation with Marymount without a secondary school, and St Gabs, Montford Jr and SAC all suffering from poor reputation (which may be unfair despite its best efforts) of its secondary schools.Hendon\" post_id=\"1921198\" time=\"1563679553\" user_id=\"142376:
[quote=floppy post_id=1921189 time=1563677500 user_id=97579]
Unfortunately, the data suggests otherwise. Some of the single gender schools are still struggling in terms of enrolment, and filling up only in Phase 2Cs or not at all, despite being in current / future population centres.
Examples: Bedok - St Anthony Canossian, Serangoon - CHIJ OLGC, St Gab, Toa Payoh - Marymount Convent, Hougang - Montford Junior, etc. If you compare their enrolment vis-a-vis schools nearby, they are clearly not attracting as many students as they could and unable to persuade students who are facing ballot in other schools to consider their school.
The other thing is, with the exception of a few, most co-ed schools are government-aided schools. Therefore, MOE didn't turn them co-ed, the decision to do so is made by the school management.
With CHJI OLN, CHIJ OLGC, it has PLMGS and SNGS, and possibly CHIJ TP to compete with. For boy schools, Montford, St Gabs compete with Maris Stella and possibly Holy Innocent.
Your last point is also wrong, most government aided schools are single sex not co-ed. It makes no sense for a boy school that feeds into SJI to turn co-ed if not for MOE.
Competition with neighbouring schools is a given. Are you suggesting that there are too many single gender schools around? Given your take on Montfort Jr and SAC, moving single gender schools with low enrolment to current and future population centres would not result in them being filled up quite readily if their affiliated secondary schools have poor reputation. On the other hand, schools like De La Salle feeds into, not one but, two schools, including a highly reputable one. It is in a current population centre and yet, enrolment is still behind non-affiliated / non-historical schools. De La Salle also serves as an interesting contrast to St Anthony's Primary, which feeds into the same schools, was also converted from single-gender to co-ed and is situated in a similar estate, but has remained fairly popular.
Would some estates, such as Punggol and Seng Kang, welcome a single-gender primary school? Definitely, in terms of choice and offering to parents who may also be looking for schools align with their religious values, given that most single-gender primary schools are also missionary schools. To suggest that they would be filled up readily, however, is wide of the mark. Geography is an important consideration, as always, but gender of a school matters little when compared to parents' perception of the 'quality' of the school - single-gender is a 'good-to-have' and not a 'must-have'. Therefore, moving Montfort or SAC to Punggol or Sengkang would probably not result in a huge increase in their enrolment if the concerns that caused them to be sidelined by parents in Hougang or Bedok remain unchanged.
We probably would have to agree to disagree.[/quote]Like I said there are other factors at play besides equating low enrolment to level of popularity of single sex schools. Low enrolment may itself be misleading as it gives Phase 2CS and Phase 3 options to parents and they fill up eventually. So Low enrolment here means low enrolment at the earlier phases.
As for the MOE vs School management decision process, I can say you are wrong about De La Salle and St Anthony Primary, and it was not the low enrolment that led to them turning co-ed. Government aided schools are not driven by KPIs of enrolment, if left alone. -
Octavia\" post_id=\"1920554\" time=\"1563416057\" user_id=\"161617:
Hi Octavia
Hi mums, I'd like to know academic feedback/review for Wellington Primary School and Endeavour Primary School.
We are still confusing which one better. Actually we did 60 hours of PV at Canberra Primary but less chance because there are a lot of SCs. (We are PR).
Next week will be phase 2B and we still thinking for our second choice in case balloting..
Last week went to Endeavour Open House but i feel not so great compare with Canberra. Because last year we went Canberra Open house but unfortunately we missed Wellington open house which was at early May.
So we are very confused.
Hopefully get a place at Canberra.
BTW, we are <1km.
I went to both Wellington & Endeavour open house. For Wellington they do not have open house for this year. if you would like to visit the school you can call their school and they will make arrangement.
I am still considering which school to chose too. Last Sat went to Northoaks open house & like it v much but it too far from my house.
Can share how good is Canberra? -
Hi all senior mums
Yesterday we registered at Canberra for Phase 2B but as we all expected numbers of applicants are more than available vacancies. So for us is less chance, i'd like to know can we register again at Canberra for Phase 2C as we believe high chance for <1km like us.
But i don't want online. MOE announced 2C 29th is online, at school is 30th.
One of our senior friends said some of the schools would reject to give you the registration form if you had already done at 2B regardless of your outcome. We are not sure but we are afraid .
So anyone encountered such a thing or should we directly go online on 29th?
Because our first target is Canberra, we like to try any chances we could have at any particular phase. -
Ivy Be\" post_id=\"1921495\" time=\"1563785513\" user_id=\"155691:[quote=\"Ivy Be\" post_id=1921495 time=1563785513 user_id=155691]
Octavia\" post_id=\"1920554\" time=\"1563416057\" user_id=\"161617:
Hi OctaviaHi mums, I'd like to know academic feedback/review for Wellington Primary School and Endeavour Primary School.
We are still confusing which one better. Actually we did 60 hours of PV at Canberra Primary but less chance because there are a lot of SCs. (We are PR).
Next week will be phase 2B and we still thinking for our second choice in case balloting..
Last week went to Endeavour Open House but i feel not so great compare with Canberra. Because last year we went Canberra Open house but unfortunately we missed Wellington open house which was at early May.
So we are very confused.
Hopefully get a place at Canberra.
BTW, we are <1km.
I went to both Wellington & Endeavour open house. For Wellington they do not have open house for this year. if you would like to visit the school you can call their school and they will make arrangement.
I am still considering which school to chose too. Last Sat went to Northoaks open house & like it v much but it too far from my house.
Can share how good is Canberra?[/quote]
Hi Ivy,
Yes, Canberra is great. All the students are very active, approachable, well-communicate with visitors. By looking at how they do open-house, school itself organised very well.
Northoak is not bad? but it is far from my house too. -
Octavia\" post_id=\"1921634\" time=\"1563846256\" user_id=\"161617:
Why do you think your chance at P2C will be higher if your chance in P2B is low? :scratchhead: P2C is more competitive.
Hi all senior mums
Yesterday we registered at Canberra for Phase 2B but as we all expected numbers of applicants are more than available vacancies. So for us is less chance, i'd like to know can we register again at Canberra for Phase 2C as we believe high chance for <1km like us.
But i don't want online. MOE announced 2C 29th is online, at school is 30th.
One of our senior friends said some of the schools would reject to give you the registration form if you had already done at 2B regardless of your outcome. We are not sure but we are afraid .
So anyone encountered such a thing or should we directly go online on 29th?
Because our first target is Canberra, we like to try any chances we could have at any particular phase.
You can, of course, apply at P2C again if you do not get into the school at P2B. However, historically, for Canberra at P2C, balloting is only for SC staying within 1 km of the school. -
Octavia\" post_id=\"1921634\" time=\"1563846256\" user_id=\"161617:
First of all, i am not a mum.
Hi all senior mums
Yesterday we registered at Canberra for Phase 2B but as we all expected numbers of applicants are more than available vacancies. So for us is less chance, i'd like to know can we register again at Canberra for Phase 2C as we believe high chance for <1km like us.
But i don't want online. MOE announced 2C 29th is online, at school is 30th.
One of our senior friends said some of the schools would reject to give you the registration form if you had already done at 2B regardless of your outcome. We are not sure but we are afraid .
So anyone encountered such a thing or should we directly go online on 29th?
Because our first target is Canberra, we like to try any chances we could have at any particular phase.
If one fail to obtain a seat in 2B, he/she can attempt at 2C again. Of course the odd will be lower given the competition.
I am quite sure some school reject application because the school know that the applicants has zero chances, not due to the outcome of the 2B. Example a parent 1-2km of canberra eligible for 2B, balloting was done in 2B for 1-2km but for phase 2C, all positions are filled up by those within 1km, the school would be kind enough to ask the applicant not to enter.
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