2019 PSLE Discussions and Strategies (Children born in 2007)
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I have a feeling that those parents who are very vocal are hoping MOE can do a review of the maths paper. Maybe their kids have not done as well as expected and the parents and now jumping up and down like a jumping jac (just kidding).
Yes, the paper may be tough but is it so hard until every question can’t be solved? So far I have asked a few parents, all their kids did reasonably well, and felt that the paper was tough but manageable.
Btw, previous PSLE papers are sold at $1 each at school bookshop, not very expensive. And what Dylanmummy2003 said is very true. So long one has practised enough past year papers, one should be able to do well. The paper is quite standard, we know there’s sure to have one question on speed, one question on circle, maybe one heuristics question, one on surface area or volume will surely appear in the paper. -
lee_yl\" post_id=\"1939852\" time=\"1570204132\" user_id=\"17023:
It is inevitable that parents with kids who can solve those qns see such comments like mine as narrow minded, petty or Chinese saying as 输不起. The truth is, my son did his psle in 2017 (also deemed as a tough year by many) , no tuition or MO or GEP (any other tags I missed? ) , can handle the so-called IQ or MO tough qns, and earned A* for his Maths. I am an educator myself and I speak objectively, for the good of the children's foundation years.
I have a feeling that those parents who are very vocal are hoping MOE can do a review of the maths paper. Maybe their kids have not done as well as expected and the parents and now jumping up and down like a jumping jac (just kidding).
Yes, the paper may be tough but is it so hard until every question can’t be solved? So far I have asked a few parents, all their kids did reasonably well, and felt that the paper was tough but manageable.
Btw, previous PSLE papers are sold at $1 each at school bookshop, not very expensive. And what Dylanmummy2003 said is very true. So long one has practised enough past year papers, one should be able to do well. The paper is quite standard, we know there’s sure to have one question on speed, one question on circle, maybe one heuristics question, one on surface area or volume will surely appear in the paper.
By past year papers, I mean the schools past year papers not only the PSLE ones.
And no, there is no need to hope for review of paper as the bell curve(ah, the beauty of it) will address it.
See this issue objectively, as building primary maths foundation and life long interest in it, then only can you see our side of arguments. Focus is to BUILD it, not just test it. -
jumpingjacks\" post_id=\"1939855\" time=\"1570205270\" user_id=\"56373:
Yes, 2017 maths paper was indeed a tough one. So you are an experienced PSLE parent and you agree that no tuition / no MO / no GEP can earn an A* for a tough maths paper?
It is inevitable that parents with kids who can solve those qns see such comments like mine as narrow minded, petty or Chinese saying as 输不起. The truth is, my son did his psle in 2017 (also deemed as a tough year by many) , no tuition or MO or GEP (any other tags I missed? ) , can handle the so-called IQ or MO tough qns, and earned A* for his Maths. I am an educator myself and I speak objectively, for the good of the children's foundation years.lee_yl\" post_id=\"1939852\" time=\"1570204132\" user_id=\"17023:
I have a feeling that those parents who are very vocal are hoping MOE can do a review of the maths paper. Maybe their kids have not done as well as expected and the parents and now jumping up and down like a jumping jac (just kidding).
Yes, the paper may be tough but is it so hard until every question can’t be solved? So far I have asked a few parents, all their kids did reasonably well, and felt that the paper was tough but manageable.
Btw, previous PSLE papers are sold at $1 each at school bookshop, not very expensive. And what Dylanmummy2003 said is very true. So long one has practised enough past year papers, one should be able to do well. The paper is quite standard, we know there’s sure to have one question on speed, one question on circle, maybe one heuristics question, one on surface area or volume will surely appear in the paper.
By past year papers, I mean the schools past year papers not only the PSLE ones.
And no, there is no need to hope for review of paper as the bell curve(ah, the beauty of it) will address it.
See this issue objectively, as building primary maths foundation and life long interest in it, then only can you see our side of arguments. Focus is to BUILD it, not just test it.
Did your DC2 suffer a panic attack? Sometimes when kids panic, and time seems to ticking away, they can suddenly “blank out”. We have to accept that even if DC1 is capable of getting A* for math, it doesn’t mean that DC2 will automatically get an A* too.
No choice, we still need an objective score for secondary school selection. Unless you have a better suggestion, else we still need to take PSLE exam. -
entei17\" post_id=\"1939792\" time=\"1570178140\" user_id=\"162440:
I think your solution is still overly complicated. There is no need to shift the semi-circles nor visualize anything. The solution is just 3 lines, does not involve algebra and easier than model method:
Totally agree, the solutions presented so far are too complex. Don't use algebra or units & parts to confuse the kid. In fact, this qn does not involve any properties of circle either. You just need to see that the overlapping parts are of the same length then you can use logic to derive the other parts. Pls see my pic and logic here.jumpingjacks\" post_id=\"1939677\" time=\"1570118362\" user_id=\"56373:
[quote=Iluvmygals post_id=1939672 time=1570115299 user_id=26453]I think the solutions by the tuition centers over complicate the questions.
Just need to focus on the 2 semi circles by the side you will see the length. Don't need algebra, don't need shift the semi circles here and there.....simple circle properties will do.
https://postimg.cc/bZpQGXVK
1. The green line shows the part where the 2 semicircles overlap: they are of the same length on each of the semicircle.
2. Hence, the orange lines must be the same length (i.e. 22cm) as the semicircles are identical.
3. Thus, you can derive the purple part as 22-12=10
Do the same for the other side (highlighted in pink) then you can add them to get 10 +16+10=36
Hence the working can be done in just 2 or 3 lines.
https://postimg.cc/TKbsrNmV
Top=Bottom
3D + 12 + 12 = 2D +22 + 22 +16
D = 36
As for the triangle question part (c), the suggested solution by one of the tutor is overly complicated too, and he is a tutor! Primary school maths and national exams do not need rocket science to solve, to a certain extent,it extends to math olympiad questions too. So one additional heuristic should be added to the top of your tools, and that's the maxim \"PSLE question is meant to be easy, there has to be a shortcut somewhere.\"
The solution for the triangle question part (c) is:
Note that the difference between the white and grey triangles are 1, -2, 3, -4, 5, -6,....., 249, -250
So there are 250 more grey triangles than white triangles
So there are (62500-250) / 2 = 31125 white triangles
31125+250=31375 grey triangles
But even though the questions do not need elaborate solutions, it does not mean they are easy to comprehend and frame a solution, especially when most PSLE students would not have exposure to these question styles. This put an unfair advantage to GEP, E2K students and MO trained students who have gotten exposure to these question types. There is also an element of luck in being able to find the key to the above solution. Under exam stress and time constraint, sometimes you just can't 'see' it.
MOE promulgate the belief that all schools are good schools. I agree, but I also believe that some schools are better. The better schools would be able to better prepare/expose the students for these questions. The field is not even, and toughening the PSLE would make the field even more uneven. This totally run contrary to MOE's new mission to de-stress the educational system. The trend of tougher questions simply pushes parents to seek more help to tackle them, math olympiad classes will get more business and less well off students get left behind. OYK was still asking parents not to send their kids to tuition centres when they scrap some of the exams? The change to the AL system is supposedly for students to be graded based on their individual performance and they will no longer be as finely differentiated. If you are setting a tough question that almost every student has not seen before, then fine. But if some have better exposure, then they are definitely well differentiated.[/quote]I wondered why the semicircle question was featured in the news because it looked easy. I thought maybe primary children will find it difficult. So I showed it to my P5 daughter and she solved it by pushing the 2 bottom semicircles to the sides cancelling out 2 top semicircles and leaving only the middle semicircle and some numbers for an easy solve.
I disagree with you about not needing visualization to solve math problems. Even though my daughter is good in math, she is still not comfortable using equations. Often, she will use visual tools such as diagrams and models to solve math problems, because this is the way that they are taught in school.
For the triangle question, I solved it in the same way although I only looked at the even number figures. I thought my daughter might appreciate a more visual method, so here's another solution by looking at the figures.
Every pair of layers has 2 more grey triangles. E.g. layers 1 & 2 has 3-1 more grey triangles, layers 3 & 4 has 7-5
250 layers = 125 pairs * 2 grey triangles = 250 more grey triangles
Total white = total grey - 250, total grey + total white = 62500, solve and get the answer
Since my daughter was taught this topic only recently, I have been digging up questions (past year, other schools etc) similar to the triangle question in the 2019 PSLE math paper. Most of them are straightforward but some are similarly tricky so it is not true that the triangle question is exceptional. And parents can actually find good practice material from the internet itself. As my daughter is from a no brand neighborhood school, I have been making more effort in tracking the standard of test papers from branded schools like Tao Nan etc. Getting my daughter to try out papers from these schools is my attempt to level the playing field for her.
When my daughter was selected for SASMO this year, she was just given a past year SASMO paper to try out on her own. So it pained me to hear that some branded schools have MO classes, some since primary 2. Inequality will always exist, we just have to try our best for our kids. -
Sorry to ask here…but we want to sell off some of our son’s papers/notes from educational centres for future parents to use & benefit as much as we did - where is the best place to post?
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entei17\" post_id=\"1939792\" time=\"1570178140\" user_id=\"162440:
I think your solution is still overly complicated. There is no need to shift the semi-circles nor visualize anything. The solution is just 3 lines, does not involve algebra and easier than model method:
Totally agree, the solutions presented so far are too complex. Don't use algebra or units & parts to confuse the kid. In fact, this qn does not involve any properties of circle either. You just need to see that the overlapping parts are of the same length then you can use logic to derive the other parts. Pls see my pic and logic here.jumpingjacks\" post_id=\"1939677\" time=\"1570118362\" user_id=\"56373:
[quote=Iluvmygals post_id=1939672 time=1570115299 user_id=26453]I think the solutions by the tuition centers over complicate the questions.
Just need to focus on the 2 semi circles by the side you will see the length. Don't need algebra, don't need shift the semi circles here and there.....simple circle properties will do.
https://postimg.cc/bZpQGXVK
1. The green line shows the part where the 2 semicircles overlap: they are of the same length on each of the semicircle.
2. Hence, the orange lines must be the same length (i.e. 22cm) as the semicircles are identical.
3. Thus, you can derive the purple part as 22-12=10
Do the same for the other side (highlighted in pink) then you can add them to get 10 +16+10=36
Hence the working can be done in just 2 or 3 lines.
https://postimg.cc/TKbsrNmV
Top=Bottom
3D + 12 + 12 = 2D +22 + 22 +16
D = 36
As for the triangle question part (c), the suggested solution by one of the tutor is overly complicated too, and he is a tutor! Primary school maths and national exams do not need rocket science to solve, to a certain extent,it extends to math olympiad questions too. So one additional heuristic should be added to the top of your tools, and that's the maxim \"PSLE question is meant to be easy, there has to be a shortcut somewhere.\"
The solution for the triangle question part (c) is:
Note that the difference between the white and grey triangles are 1, -2, 3, -4, 5, -6,....., 249, -250
So there are 250 more grey triangles than white triangles
So there are (62500-250) / 2 = 31125 white triangles
31125+250=31375 grey triangles
But even though the questions do not need elaborate solutions, it does not mean they are easy to comprehend and frame a solution, especially when most PSLE students would not have exposure to these question styles. This put an unfair advantage to GEP, E2K students and MO trained students who have gotten exposure to these question types. There is also an element of luck in being able to find the key to the above solution. Under exam stress and time constraint, sometimes you just can't 'see' it.
MOE promulgate the belief that all schools are good schools. I agree, but I also believe that some schools are better. The better schools would be able to better prepare/expose the students for these questions. The field is not even, and toughening the PSLE would make the field even more uneven. This totally run contrary to MOE's new mission to de-stress the educational system. The trend of tougher questions simply pushes parents to seek more help to tackle them, math olympiad classes will get more business and less well off students get left behind. OYK was still asking parents not to send their kids to tuition centres when they scrap some of the exams? The change to the AL system is supposedly for students to be graded based on their individual performance and they will no longer be as finely differentiated. If you are setting a tough question that almost every student has not seen before, then fine. But if some have better exposure, then they are definitely well differentiated.[/quote]Actually i think i understand the previous person's one better than urs... -
November (next month), some Secondary schools conduct Open house, may take a look at the dates
https://www.schoolbag.sg/story/open-house-dates-of-secondary-schools-2019 -
lee_yl\" post_id=\"1939856\" time=\"1570207119\" user_id=\"17023:
Hmm, I am bemused at how u derive that I hv a DC2 doing PSLE this year. :scratchhead:
Yes, 2017 maths paper was indeed a tough one. So you are an experienced PSLE parent and you agree that no tuition / no MO / no GEP can earn an A* for a tough maths paper?
Did your DC2 suffer a panic attack? Sometimes when kids panic, and time seems to ticking away, they can suddenly “blank out”. We have to accept that even if DC1 is capable of getting A* for math, it doesn’t mean that DC2 will automatically get an A* too.
No choice, we still need an objective score for secondary school selection. Unless you have a better suggestion, else we still need to take PSLE exam.
Removing PSLE is not my point either. If u care to read properly, levelling the playing fields and remove the all-stakes notion is.
I brought up the point on my son's Maths in 2017 to show that my concern is objective, not swayed by by own child's ability or inability to do the qns. As an educator myself, I feel the struggles on the ground.
My arguments are directed at the relevance of the qns to our Pri school syllabus. Which topic does the semi circle qn fall under? The triangle type of qn (and any related past qns in school pp or assessment bks) is an over extension of Patterns. If these are critical skills, then the govt schools must train the kids and dedicate topics on it. Then, by all means, set higher order qns on these topics.
Look at how some of the parents here put all-stakes effort in trying to help their kids level up in spite of school's effort and tuition... Parents scouring Internet, Assessmt bks, past year papers to address qns not addressed in the schools, take leave, quit jobs due to PSLE etc. These kids are fortunate hv such parents, but not all kids are that lucky. Where is the level playing field?
Most parents don't go to such extent for O or A lvls. Is it they see they can't help much at that lvl, or they hv left it to the schools or tuition? Or simply because they know their 16 yr olds are equipped to handle? Why can't this be the attitude for psle? Because some PSLE qns are beyond scope? Because our 12 Yr old are not able to handle the psle rigour? That's why parents rushed in to fill the gaps for them. It's a never-ending struggle n over-commitment for parents(shouldn't it be the students?) if these are not addressed. -
dylanmummy2003\" post_id=\"1939794\" time=\"1570179164\" user_id=\"116705:
There seem a debate on whether psle maths questions should be as challenging as ot did in these odd years.
not necessary only GEP, and MO trained students will get exposures to such questions.entei17\" post_id=\"1939792\" time=\"1570178140\" user_id=\"162440:
I think your solution is still overly complicated. There is no need to shift the semi-circles nor visualize anything. The solution is just 3 lines, does not involve algebra and easier than model method:
Top=Bottom
3D + 12 + 12 = 2D +22 + 22 +16
D = 36
As for the triangle question part (c), the suggested solution by one of the tutor is overly complicated too, and he is a tutor! Primary school maths and national exams do not need rocket science to solve, to a certain extent,it extends to math olympiad questions too. So one additional heuristic should be added to the top of your tools, and that's the maxim \"PSLE question is meant to be easy, there has to be a shortcut somewhere.\"
The solution for the triangle question part (c) is:
Note that the difference between the white and grey triangles are 1, -2, 3, -4, 5, -6,....., 249, -250
So there are 250 more grey triangles than white triangles
So there are (62500-250) / 2 = 31125 white triangles
31125+250=31375 grey triangles
But even though the questions do not need elaborate solutions, it does not mean they are easy to comprehend and frame a solution, especially when most PSLE students would not have exposure to these question styles. This put an unfair advantage to GEP, E2K students and MO trained students who have gotten exposure to these question types. There is also an element of luck in being able to find the key to the above solution. Under exam stress and time constraint, sometimes you just can't 'see' it.
MOE promulgate the belief that all schools are good schools. I agree, but I also believe that some schools are better. The better schools would be able to better prepare/expose the students for these questions. The field is not even, and toughening the PSLE would make the field even more uneven. This totally run contrary to MOE's new mission to de-stress the educational system. The trend of tougher questions simply pushes parents to seek more help to tackle them, math olympiad classes will get more business and less well off students get left behind. OYK was still asking parents not to send their kids to tuition centres when they scrap some of the exams? The change to the AL system is supposedly for students to be graded based on their individual performance and they will no longer be as finely differentiated. If you are setting a tough question that almost every student has not seen before, then fine. But if some have better exposure, then they are definitely well differentiated.
my DD, she is not GEP, not in the top 2 elite classes, never MO trained, she did lots of practices on past year papers and assessment books. she managed to solve these questions. same for her classmates. they are in a neighbourhood school only. all her classmates agree is tough, but no one cried, no one looks defeated. they managed to attempted all the Maths questions mentioned in the recently social media posts
So i finally decided to challenge myself on the 5 tough qns posted in straits times, i must qualify that i was juggling with other tasks while looking at the questions.
My take is, i would pre empt my kids taking psle in 2 years time, a couple of questions amounting up to 10 points are not meant for totalling up to 100 marks for the maths subject. They are bonus questions.
I gave my kids below 10yo to try part a n b of the 2019 triangle questions. 1 got both points in a couple of mins with very little writing, the other just could not see part b. But i share the same sentiments that such questions are not maths related. Without studying for psle topics, one under 10 can do, one under 10 cannot. So these qns are not meant for testing kids whether they.are proficient in the maths topics. However, I also feel it's no point questioning SEAB or MOE intention.
Parents just have to prepare our kids, if they can crack the code on the last questions, good, it's a bonus. If they cannot, focus on the rest of the papers based on the set curriculum.
I tried to refrain myself from reading the posted solution, i want to solve it on my own. In the end one child solve it with the same method as mine. Square numbers.
Is a matter of whether u see it or not, my other child, more passionate about maths, could not see it at the moment. But i m sure he could in time to came, onefine day.
Both kids above, no maths Olympiad training, not in gep, in neighbourhood school. No tuition. Only moe standard teachers.
I gave them the qn to try after making sure it's not going to break their soul. -
jumpingjacks\" post_id=\"1939888\" time=\"1570249612\" user_id=\"56373:
You wrote so passionately about the matter that I thought you have a PSLE kid this year.
Hmm, I am bemused at how u derive that I hv a DC2 doing PSLE this year. :scratchhead:
Removing PSLE is not my point either. If u care to read properly, levelling the playing fields and remove the all-stakes notion is.
I brought up the point on my son's Maths in 2017 to show that my concern is objective, not swayed by by own child's ability or inability to do the qns. As an educator myself, I feel the struggles on the ground.
My arguments are directed at the relevance of the qns to our Pri school syllabus. Which topic does the semi circle qn fall under? The triangle type of qn (and any related past qns in school pp or assessment bks) is an over extension of Patterns. If these are critical skills, then the govt schools must train the kids and dedicate topics on it. Then, by all means, set higher order qns on these topics.
Look at how some of the parents here put all-stakes effort in trying to help their kids level up in spite of school's effort and tuition... Parents scouring Internet, Assessmt bks, past year papers to address qns not addressed in the schools, take leave, quit jobs due to PSLE etc. These kids are fortunate hv such parents, but not all kids are that lucky. Where is the level playing field?
Most parents don't go to such extent for O or A lvls. Is it they see they can't help much at that lvl, or they hv left it to the schools or tuition? Or simply because they know their 16 yr olds are equipped to handle? Why can't this be the attitude for psle? Because some PSLE qns are beyond scope? Because our 12 Yr old are not able to handle the psle rigour? That's why parents rushed in to fill the gaps for them. It's a never-ending struggle n over-commitment for parents(shouldn't it be the students?) if these are not addressed.
There is never a “level-playing” field to begin with. Some children are born smart, some aren’t. Some are born into families whose parents are educators and can score A* for tough maths papers even without tuition. :evil: Some parents can afford expensive quality tuition, some can’t and are only trying to make both ends meet.
While schools play their part by making available quality worksheets and exposing all students to a variety of questions, there will still be differentiated teaching. For example, top classes may be given more difficult maths questions to practise. That is because the HA students can be stretched further. There’s a Chinese saying, 因材施教. If a kid already has problem understanding basic maths concept, should he be forced to take up MO?
Students taking O and A level are more mature and sufficiently motivated to handle exams themselves. By the time they are 17-18yo, parents can nag but that doesn’t mean the teens will listen. Are you sure only PSLE is difficult? A-level exam is easy? Many JC students regularly sleep late and wake up early in preparation for the A-level exams.
Whether PSLE is an all-stakes exams or not, it boils down to parents’ expectations. I have friends who are chill about PSLE as they are willing to accept whatever the outcome is. In preparation for my kids’ PSLE, my hair turned gray. But I recognized that I have high expectations and that is my own issue.
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