2021 PSLE Discussions and Strategies (Children born in 2009)

[lee_yl]

Veyron\" post_id=\"2050047\" time=\"1638289254\" user_id=\"30663:

Just because you can't dispute the facts that don't mean they are irrelevant. Can you highlight which part of what I posted is not relevant to AL banding?

Sharing one of my favourite quote

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions.” Rear Admiral Grace M. Hopper.

Fact 1: The sun rises from the East
Fact 2: Grace M. Hopper is a lady

These are facts but how are they relevant to PSLE discussion?

You forget that t-score is dependent on the cohort’s mean and SD. Cross cohort comparison for t-score is meaningless so there’s no point trying to estimate the COP in 2021 using cohort 2020 t-score.

[Liew Nga Wing]

When you see two (2) persons are arguing over an issue and both sides don’t "let go", the best way to do - is to ask them to cool down even though you may think one of them is "wrong".


Giving out your view and saying one side is "wrong" under such circumstances will not help anyone. It will make the original 2 parties fighting become 3 or 4 or more parties fighting here.

[AHsDad]

Veyron, you are right


Hope your kid gets into RGS or whichever 1st-choice school
Hope we don’t have to hear about Tscore anymore

[ChiefKiasu]

Woah... I just woke up and wow... don't you guys ever sleep? :scared:


What's done is done, and the Christmas season is here. We should enjoy the season the best we can with our children, instead of going over the relationship between t-scores and AL scores again and again.

I'm just curious... does t-scores ever need any balloting?

[lee_yl]

SpongyBobs\" post_id=\"2050016\" time=\"1638281496\" user_id=\"196018:

Chill.. Your mathematics based on some assumptions. My teacher used to say that too many assumptions, results not conclusive.

1. We don't know if the 258 last student into MGS = AL6. FWIW, it can be 258 / 258 x 350 = 350 = 87 + 88 + 87 + 88 = AL8. If you argue that this is not possible, because MOE posted indicative COP = AL6 and not AL8, read point (2) below.

2. You assumed that MGS COP = 258 = AL6 because MOE announced indicative AL COP for MGS is AL6. This may or may not be true. Someone has shared that indicative AL COP was simulated by MOE by assuming 2020 cohort graded using AL system, and posted using AL criteria. The last student posted to MGS under T-score exercise may not be the same as the last student posted to MGS under AL simulation. Can they be the same? Of course, but what's the odd?

Quoting MOE
Start Quote
\"
Using these simulated PSLE Scores and students’ school choices from 2020,
• MOE simulated their posting outcomes based on the new S1 Posting System
and its tie-breakers (in the order of Citizenship, Choice order of Schools and
Computerised Balloting).
• The indicative PSLE Score ranges for individual secondary schools were then
generated based on the PSLE Scores of the first student and the last student
who would have been posted into the school under the simulation.
\"
End Quote

At the end of the day, I can't figure out your points of insisting that a specific school may need to ballot on AL5. Well, it sure is possible, if there are a large number of AL4 & AL5 putting RGS or MGS (which has even less vacancies) as their first choices. But what can we do on our ends? I don't see any other than be aware that COP AL6 can be COP AL5. MOE has mentioned that indicative AL can swing by ±1, how likely is anybody guess.

Down the road, will everyone start to chase AL4 for it to be safe? Will AL4 be new AL5? Possibly.. We can't tell, and no point worrying about what we can't control in future.

Agree and for Illustration purposes only :

Helen with tscore 258 qualified for MGS and under tscore system, she was the last student posted to MGS.

However, under MOE’s AL Banding simulation, Helen could have AL7 and got posted to another IP school OR Helen had AL6 but got balloted out. So another girl, Jane with AL6 was the last student posted to MGS under the simulation.

Thus, we cannot simply assume AL6=258 as Helen was the last student posted to MGS under tscore system while Jane could well be the last student posted to MGS under AL simulation.

[Veyron]

AHsDad\" post_id=\"2050066\" time=\"1638315911\" user_id=\"172457:

Hope we don’t have to hear about Tscore anymore

Care to explain why t-score should not be mentioned anymore?

Suppose I ask you, what do you think best (in terms of academic achievement) or the most popular AL11 COP schools in Singapore?

What will be your answer and why?

[snorlax]

ChiefKiasu\" post_id=\"2049945\" time=\"1638261959\" user_id=\"3:

Woah... in that case, you are suggesting that MOE cares more about their employees than their \"customers\", ie. us. I would like to work in MOE then
I worked in Operations for LTA before and it was a sleepless night every 2 weeks before COE bidding.

COE bidding is open bidding, different in nature, as the system availability is important. it's not fair for late bidder if the system is down.

S1 posting is kind of close bidding, timing is not important, you don't see the result until they release result. as long as every one can \"bid\", then it's fair.

[snorlax]

alg\" post_id=\"2050020\" time=\"1638282483\" user_id=\"11165:

ESIS is top 1/3 of students admitted to Independent Schools by PSLE score.

So i guess all those who able to enter RI, RGS, HCI, ACS, RV… etc all able to get ESIS?

this year only AL4 AL5 get ESIS right?
if RI, RGS, HCI / NYGS COP at AL6, all those AL6 balloting into these \"TOP 4\" wont get ESIS right ?

assume only AL4 AL5 get ESIS.

[MerlionInGermany]

ChiefKiasu\" post_id=\"2050067\" time=\"1638316364\" user_id=\"3:

Woah... I just woke up and wow... don't you guys ever sleep? :scared:

What's done is done, and the Christmas season is here. We should enjoy the season the best we can with our children, instead of going over the relationship between t-scores and AL scores again and again.

I'm just curious... does t-scores ever need any balloting?

T scores would ballot if the decimal place are the same i think? And they say, no one would have identical scores down to the nth decimal place. But no one knows for sure if it is really the decimal place they tell you it is or actually it is just random

But I admire his/ her passion in making sure everyone understands his/her theory. I didnt learn about the relationship between t and AL, but I sure learn about fighting till the end on what you truely believe in.

[SpongyBobs]

Veyron\" post_id=\"2050072\" time=\"1638317519\" user_id=\"30663:

Your above illustration is incorrect and here is why

a) MOE does not set a predetermine 2020 AL COP for MGS to conduct their simulation. Doing so will be like putting the cart before the horse

b) MOE simulation does not move students around from school to school or change the school order of choice etc

c) MOE does not conduct balloting in their simulation.

In the above illustration, if Helen is AL7, then the indicative AL COP for MGS will be AL7, not AL6. Helen doesnt get remove from MGS just because she is AL7. And if MOE move Helen to another IP school, then someone from another IP school will have to be kicked out.

Hope you understand what about saying here. (think think)

Now we are going somewhere..

But seriously, Veyron. Try to argue with open mind instead of keep insisting yours is right and others are wrong. While you are trying to present your facts, you can try to understand others who tried to deliver their points across.

a) MOE does not set a predetermine 2020 AL COP for MGS to conduct their simulation. Doing so will be like putting the cart before the horse
→ Agree

b) MOE simulation does not move students around from school to school or change the school order of choice etc
→ Not necessary. MOE simulation may have caused students to move from school to school.. The 280 students entering RI under the simulation (assume 400 intake - 30% DSA) may not be those 280 students really went into RI during 2020 posting.

c) MOE does not conduct balloting in their simulation.
→ I believe MOE simulation involve balloting. Thats why they can tell you that 9 out of 10 students involved in the simulation did not need to ballot. This number wasn't plucked out of thin air, but based on their simulation

See MOE press release below. You only need to check first point, although reading the whole thing will be insightful.

https://www.moe.gov.sg/-/media/files/news/press/2021/annex-d-psle-2021.pdf?la=en&hash=D9545EF210071D1E7F0B220D7C85F20C73CB8DB4

If no-one moving across schools when MOE run their simulation, MOE would not need to even run the simulation. They can simply convert those T-score to AL accurately, since they have all the mean & standard deviation data, and told us the AL COP.