$350k for 1 child?

[kaitlynangelica]

buds:

tamarind:

I told my kids that I am keeping track of how much I pay for them now, and in the future when they start work they have to pay me back


I know many parents will criticize me for being calculative, but it is only my way of telling my kids not to take things for granted.

Tam darling, i keep ALL receipts in my BIG book since the first time they
enrolled in kindy. :evil: How? Track secure anot? :lol:

No one has a right to criticize others cos we all have our own way of doing
things especially when it comes to raising our children. :hugs:

Children SHOULD NEVER take things for granted. That's definitely a start.
That's why before the girls sleep each night, i remind them to count their
blessings. This way they reflect and learn to appreciate even the littlest
things in life. And... the simplest things in life CAN be rewarding more
than we know it.

Buds and Tam,

I beg to differ. Yes I agree that children should never take anything for granted. I keep reminding my daughter that she is very very fortunate unlike the children in our maid's country who mostly don't have an opportunity for a good education. I teach her kindness through other methods like encouraging her to give away her old things to our maid or to share her things with others. I point out the less fortunate to her like the old man who has to sell tissue on the roadside. My aim is just to pass on the correct values to her, and not to reap something in return. Whatever is within our means, we will give to her.

I disagree with keeping all the recipts just to show them in future. From the day me and dh decided to have dd, we agreed that we will give her unconditional love without being calculative.

How would you feel if your parents fished out all the receipts or kept track of all the expenses that they had incurred over raising us? I would be hurt and disgusted.

Likewise, I just think that if we are calculative with them, they will be calculative with us in the future.

[cnimed]

kaitlynangelica:

Likewise, I just think that if we are calculative with them, they will be calculative with us in the future.

There are many shades of grey in between the black and white statements that have been made, but I generally do agree that children watch not only our actions, but also our motivations. Sometimes it's the child's character.

I never see children as being empty slates. I feel they come with their own personalities and that something that is uniquely them. You hear of children who grow up with horrible parents but they are still the nicest people around, and vice versa. Of course we can influence to an extent, we can teach them social rules and expectations, we can teach and model kindness, but ultimately, they are their own person. Before I became a mother, I know that I do not want my children to feel beholden to me. After all they did not ask to be born. They come with nothing, and what we do for them and how we raise them, is a reflection of us and our beliefs. It's not something that they have control over. As an adult, that's when they can finally assert themselves.

On East versus West, I think this is a very simplistic way of looking at things. IN any case, very often when we talk about West, we are really talking only about the English-speaking countries, and even this is overly simplistic. We are only talking about caricatures.

Old folk's home - my father actually told me that when the time comes, just put him in an old folk's home. He says he doesn't mind and he doesn't care. To him it's better than to be a burden. But of course I don't intend to. The fact that he doesn't EXPECT me to, makes me want to avoid this scenario in all possible ways. But he's not the only one who has said that. Another old neighbour told me the same thing. She said that from her own experience as a caregiver to a senile elderly, she knows that it is very hard, and she doesn't want the burden upon her children.

To me that is generosity. How do we respond to that generosity is up to the individual. Do we appreciate it, or do we take advantage of it? And how will our children respond to such generosity? If you know your child well, you will have an idea.

But back to the original thread title, I do agree with Tamarind that raising a child need not be expensive. Many many things are unnecessary and there are really so many things that you can learn at home, at the playground, going to neighbours' house. The thing is the caregiver must be willing to make the time to learn, to network, to open the house to other children etc. It's only expensive if you feel you need to outsource everything to the \"expert\".

[dimsum]

jedamum:

i dont work now too. i used to give my mum allowance when i was working, but she told me not to after i turn SAHM. then i kena scolded by dh. he insisted that if i insisted, my mum will accept.
now, that we will be shifting out of my PIL, my MIL told my dh that he don't have to give her allowance cos of our increase in expenditure...

Women generally are 口是心非 Both my mum and mil made such remarks too..... \"now that u have a child, dun need to give so much lah\", \"since u are not working now, don't need to give lah.\" But when we insisted, they would still accept gladly.

[tamarind]

kaitlynangelica:

A lot is for social skills rather than keeping them at home. Going to kindergarten is also for exposure.

I once met a taxi driver with 3 kids. The youngest one was 8 and the oldest one was 18. He was driving the taxi part-time because he needed income. It surprised me during the conversation because he said he was unaware that raising a kid was ex. He even felt that paying $80 a month to the PAP kindergarten was a huge burden. Also, he found that he had to fork out addition for tuition because the work is much tougher nowadays.

Therefore whilst in principle it is true that you can don't go to kindy and just pay for food and clothes, the reality is that most ppl will not deny their child these necessities.

Kindergarten is not a necessity. It is too simplistic to say that kids will learn good social skills when they attend kindergarten. I know some kids who picked up very bad behaviour due to bad influence from other kids in kindergarten.

If parents must send kids to kindergarten only to learn social skills, then the best place is at PCF kindergarten that costs only $100 a month. Total cost only $2400 for K1 and K2. There will still be a lot of money left in the baby bonus account.

[tamarind]

deminc:

kaitlynangelica:

Likewise, I just think that if we are calculative with them, they will be calculative with us in the future.

To me that is generosity. How do we respond to that generosity is up to the individual. Do we appreciate it, or do we take advantage of it? And how will our children respond to such generosity? If you know your child well, you will have an idea.

The problem is that kids nowadays grow up listening and reading to only English story books. I feel that most English books do not teach kids to repay their parents' kindness. The only book I know of is the original adventures of Pinocchio, which most kids and probably even parents don't know about.

I believe this is the reason why more and more young people nowadays think that it is not their responsibility to take care of their parents. I heard that many old people are being left in old folks home, and their children stopped paying for them. The staff at old folks home have a big problem chasing after the kids for payment.

If we don't try to teach our kids, how do we know whether they will be grateful to us ? Like in \"The Giving Tree\", kids may take it for granted that parents should love them unconditionally, and if parents expect nothing in return, then kids will not return anything !

I know many parents think that they should love their kids unconditionally and expect nothing in return. That is what you think now. You will change your mind when you actually watch someone you love grow old and die, or when it is your time and none of your kids are by your side.

[buds]

kaitlynangelica:

Buds and Tam,


I beg to differ. Yes I agree that children should never take anything for granted. I keep reminding my daughter that she is very very fortunate unlike the children in our maid's country who mostly don't have an opportunity for a good education. I teach her kindness through other methods like encouraging her to give away her old things to our maid or to share her things with others. I point out the less fortunate to her like the old man who has to sell tissue on the roadside. My aim is just to pass on the correct values to her, and not to reap something in return. Whatever is within our means, we will give to her.

Obviously, you failed to read through all the pages beyond this post to
have posted the above... which i suggest you do.

We work with underprivileged children & also children from dysfunctional
families. Passing on values is not as easy as pointing out to the less
fortunate if you ask me. You have not seen the truly needy yet...

My girls don't need reminders to know they are fortunate. They remind
me and my husband how fortunate they are to have us as their parents.

kaitlynangelica:

I disagree with keeping all the receipts just to show them in future. From the day me and dh decided to have dd, we agreed that we will give her unconditional love without being calculative.

Once again you fail to see the big picture, cos again i don't reckon you
read every exchange done between us here to have posted that. Cos
there is NO mention of calculating costs, nor of reaping returns and
whatever nonsense. :lol: You never heard of scrapbooking i suppose..

Ours is done similar to that manner..

Just an example for your knowledge..

Off to piano class, bought new book after finishing the Schaum. Paid
piano fees for April... so happy XXX is doing so much better & playing
piano for the love of it instead of for the sake of it. :love: Karate Kid was
an awesome show! This was where we sat with popcorn and chips. :love:
We keep pictures, receipts of any kind.. for dining out, for fees, for movies
and the works... all in our BIG book of love.

I call it for reminiscence. Not at all (God no!) for calculation.

kaitlynangelica:

How would you feel if your parents fished out all the receipts or kept track of all the expenses that they had incurred over raising us? I would be hurt and disgusted.

THEY DO! :lol: And their parents had them too!

No surprise ain't it? :roll: Hey, we love it to bits!

Surprisingly, hubs family keeps them too! :lol:

We love all these memories! We are raised better than that; to think
our parents painstakingly kept memories of our childhood for the mere
purpose of calculation and returns. I'm disgusted at the last sentence in
the above post, frankly.. It's insensitive. We NEVER even thought
of it in that manner (hurt & disgust)... :!:... what more feel that way.

kaitlynangelica:

Likewise, I just think that if we are calculative with them, they will be calculative with us in the future.

When one is in true family relationship, there NEVER is mention of this
word : calculative. It's almost sinful to even think it, much less feel
it or worse still... say it. People talk of unconditional love a lot but
fail to understand the true meaning behind it. Sad..

I will cease to reply to your posts from now on, cos it is starting to spoil
my otherwise great weekend.

[buds]

tamarind:

I know many parents think that they should love their kids unconditionally and expect nothing in return. That is what you think now. You will change your mind when you actually watch someone you love grow old and die, or when it is your time and none of your kids are by your side.

My parents and i... my husband's parents and himself as well... all of us
have had opportunities to care for our extended elderly (like great great
grandparents) from when they were well up and about to the moments
when sickness befalls them.. to the point when they're paralysed.. and
a few in comatose state for a while.

So it also means that our children also had a chance to watch some of
these elder care we do.. like carry the paralysed to and from bed to the
bathroom, have them showered, feed them.. clothe them.. read to them
and chat with them regardless if they were senile or in a comatose state.

Up to the point where we held the wake, prayers, and up till the send off
period... our children were a part of these in one way or another. My girl
said once, \"Mummy, you're so nice to her (great grandaunt) when
she was still alive... then when she fell ill.. and even when she couldn't
remember who you were and now she looks like she's smiling at you
when you kiss them for the last time. Goodbye grandaunt, i hope you
go to heaven and i will pray for you always..\" There were sobs heard
in the room when she said that. At that time she was only 4. Till today,
they do remember to include their prayers for all those they know who
have left us.

Much as i do not want my parents or in-laws to grow old and die alone
as if they didn't have a family... i hope my children & i can be as close
as we are now in happiness and in wealth, in sickness and in health till
i breathe my last breath. I hope i raise them well enuf to know that.

That's why i agree with the saying that it takes a village to raise a child.
No 350k or any amount for that matter can ensure, chop plus guarantee
a well raised child.

Hugs for you tam.. :hugs:

[buds]

smurf:

er, i very unfilial hor? i dun give allowance to parents. I tried to give mum allowance last time, but she dun want. she said i not working and give me back... :oops:


and then, when I give her ang pow on CNY, she give back the ang pow (in bigger sum inside)...

Happens with me too. :oops: They really really dowan and push away.
So, i use the $ meant for them anyway to take them out for nice makans
& outings and occasional prezzies. But festive $, i insist or i'd be offended.

Hmmmm... They will somehow try to give it back in one way or another
when i think of it now. :lol:

[buds]

jedamum:

tree nymph:

okok, point taken. But I don't think Tam say Independence is a bad thing or led the kids to be ingrate to their parents.


But in your earlier posting, where you think that staying with parents or parents-in-law has MORE to benefit for us, then i suggest you rethink about it. maybe you can talk to Jedamum, Mathsparks or even Buds to list a few...

ah....it depends on which point of view you see the issue from.
on the point of having peace of mind in emergency childcare and for us, home-cooked food-wise, yes, staying with my PIL greatly benefitted us.
on the point of learning to live independently, staying with PIL have handicapped us in this way. it is akin to asking a lion in the zoo, do you preferred a well-fed sheltered life or an adventurous and free life in the wild
so far, from the few backyard stories that i had heard, those couples benefitted from staying with their PIL....although if given an option, most DILs prefer to stay with their mums than MILs la.

Although we're under one roof with PILs, they get to enjoy my cooking.
Even when i was still working, i cook.

Emergency care we don't need cos we usually sort it between ourselves.
(hubs & i) Worst case scenario, my own parents. So, in our case
we sorta live independently are not handicapped in any way tho' we're
under one roof. They have the sheltered life if you ask me, not being
thrown in the wild to fend for themselves.

[cnimed]

Dear buds and Tam,

I believe your children will take very good care of you in your old age but not because you show them receipts, but because you have demonstrated that love and care to your elderly relatives and to your children.
I've read Tam's blog on the trips she took her dad on - it's One of the most moving blogs I've read.

I don't like The Giving Tree either, because I believe martyrdom is just another form of narcissim. I never saw that book as an analogy for a parent's love even though many do.

Tam, actually I've been to many funerals over the past five years. none of the parents were demanding, and indeed, some were quite irresponsible. But the children more than did their duty to the very last in tears. I think in death lies the ultimate forgiveness and redemption.

Maybe I'm too much of an optimist! I tend to see the good than worry about bad motives.

Last on books and the West, I think it's again too simplistic to generalise like that. (coincidentally I just borrowed Pinnochio today!) Their culture is different, but it doesn't mean they are indifferent. It's just that expectations are different and most pain and disappointments arise from unmet expectations. It's good that you are clear on your expectations.