2022 PSLE Discussions & Strategies (born in 2010)

[Mr.025413Clumsy]

SG_KP1\" post_id=\"2074898\" time=\"1658041286\" user_id=\"188234:

Yes, that is correct. MOE has stated several times that the AL scores awarded are strictly based on raw marks.

The distribution of scores likely isn't normal (see my last comment), but is somewhat normal, and in every year there will most likely be a reasonably distribution of scores. But the number of students that score AL4, AL5, AL6, etc is not fixed and can go up or down based on cohort performance/paper difficulty.

Thanks for the clarification.

I guess even without a bell curve, nothing really changes for the students since everyone is on a level playing field. I always figured that a bell curve was more for schools to say that they had a specific percentage of students who had scored well (e.g. 90%+) and fared badly (e.g. below 50%) but realistically, if every student is marked and scored the same way, the outcome will be the same. This is not to say that a bell curve does not benefit students but only from a score perspective and not for admission to schools (again, since everyone is scored similarly).

Assuming my understanding above is correct, then I'm puzzled how MOE can say off the bat that admission to Express stream requires an AL score range of 4-20. This may not hold true if the PSLE is especially difficult where the best scores nationwide may be 7-8 (don't panic - it's an example only) which means that the range for entry into the Express stream should now be 6-22 (again, an example). The fact that MOE can confidently say that the highest AL score for entry into the Express stream is 20 implies that there's some algorithm which they've used to ensure that XX% of students get into Express and this may only be possible if there's some bell curve action going on (?)

Admittedly, I have little (or no) experience with AL scoring and MOE thinking so please take my comments with a bucket of salt. Just thinking aloud and wondering whether there really is no bell curve as claimed.

[mystique_j]

I think MOE is saying every year the standard is about the same.. just like the math paper having 15% challenging qns.. how true is this, I’m not sure. So for them, the students results doesn’t differ much from year to year.

Usually I hear parents saying, one year tough, one year easy.

If there’s no bell curve, by right, MOE should set more or less the same standard every year under the new AL scoring, no?
🤷🏻‍️

[floppy]

SG_KP1\" post_id=\"2074911\" time=\"1658044144\" user_id=\"188234:

No problem. Another rough data point/check is:

SNGS had affiliate t-score of 230, new AMR is AL14
MGS/SCGS had affiliate t-score of 220, new AMR is AL17
Various CHIJ had affiliate t-score of 200, new AMR is AL20

Not saying there is a direction translation between the two scoring systems (there isn't). But if you take the schools'/MOE's perspective of setting the bar roughly equivalent so that a similar number of students qualify (or hit a similar standard) the figures above can give some insight or sanity check.

Point to note.

It’s not wise and neither is it correct to co-relate affiliate t-score and affiliate AL score. The affiliate scores are determined by the school’s management and not by any fixed formula. Thus, a school who’s COP is t-score 220 may (and can) choose AL score 15, 16, or 18 as it’s COP as long as it deems fit.

[SG_KP1]

floppy\" post_id=\"2074942\" time=\"1658057017\" user_id=\"97579:

Point to note.

It’s not wise and neither is it correct to co-relate affiliate t-score and affiliate AL score. The affiliate scores are determined by the school’s management and not by any fixed formula. Thus, a school who’s COP is t-score 220 may (and can) choose AL score 15, 16, or 18 as it’s COP as long as it deems fit.

I don't disagree with your statement. And we both know there is no fixed translation between the two systems.

But even if the affiliate scores are determined by the school's management (and not fixed by any formula, which we both agree), you can look at all of the prior affiliate t-score COPs and what AMR they came up with. Ordinally, they all lined up (school by school). So I would believe there is some logic similar to what I mentioned above as to how the affiliate AL scores were selected.

If they wanted to admit more or fewer people, they could have changed the affiliate t-scores any of the years leading up to 2021, no (some were changed; I believe SNGS, MGS, and SCGS all became more demanding over the years)?

[cocacoco]

floppy\" post_id=\"2074942\" time=\"1658057017\" user_id=\"97579:

Point to note.

It’s not wise and neither is it correct to co-relate affiliate t-score and affiliate AL score. The affiliate scores are determined by the school’s management and not by any fixed formula. Thus, a school who’s COP is t-score 220 may (and can) choose AL score 15, 16, or 18 as it’s COP as long as it deems fit.

It was to gauge roughly the percentage, using tscore. Does not mean that single tscore translate to a single AL. We all know it is a range.

[SG_KP1]

SG_KP1\" post_id=\"2074943\" time=\"1658057452\" user_id=\"188234:

I don't disagree with your statement. And we both know there is no fixed translation between the two systems.

But even if the affiliate scores are determined by the school's management (and not fixed by any formula, which we both agree), you can look at all of the prior affiliate t-score COPs and what AMR they came up with. Ordinally, they all lined up (school by school). So I would believe there is some logic similar to what I mentioned above as to how the affiliate AL scores were selected.

If they wanted to admit more or fewer people, they could have changed the affiliate t-scores any of the years leading up to 2021, no (some were changed; I believe SNGS, MGS, and SCGS all became more demanding over the years)?

For clarity, the reason I listed the data points in the following post was in response to the question of whether AL16 = t-score 200
https://www.kiasuparents.com/kiasu/forum/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=92233&p=2074911#p2074911
https://www.kiasuparents.com/kiasu/forum/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=92233&p=2074903#p2074903

As mentioned by floppy, I don't believe one can definitively tie AL and t-score together. Further, the school management can change the affiliate AL score if they deem fit.

But for reference, here is a list of some schools that I follow and their 2020 affiliated t-score COP / 2021-2022 affiliate AL Score:

NYGH 250 / AL8
CHS 240 / AL12
SJI 238 / AL 12
ACS(I) 235 / AL13
SNGS 230 / AL14
MSHS 226 / AL16
MGS/SCGS 220 / AL17
Various CHIJ 200 / AL20

MOE has equated ~250 / AL8 and 200 / AL20. I do believe a) there is evidence that AL16 is not close to t-score 200 as it relates to the % cohort (the original question/response), and b) it doesn't look like any schools made a big change in their relative standard between 2020 t-score affiliate COP and current affiliate AL Score. If anything, the corresponding AL scores are probably slightly easier to hit, assuming same cohort ability, paper difficulty, etc. That's neither good nor bad, probably just the way it is.

Anyways, a lot of this is in the past. If you are at a school with affiliation benefits, just try to hit the affiliate AL Score. If you are targeting any other school, just try to hit last year's COP for a chance to ballot or ideally AL X-1 to get in for sure (assuming scores across the cohort are stable). Good luck!

[zac's mum]

While we are on the topic of last year’s AL COPs…any idea when the schools will start distributing the “Choosing Your Secondary Schools” hardcopy booklet to our P6s?


After prelims? On PSLE results day?

[sembgal]

zac's mum\" post_id=\"2074951\" time=\"1658062542\" user_id=\"53606:[quote=\"zac's mum\" post_id=2074951 time=1658062542 user_id=53606]
While we are on the topic of last year’s AL COPs…any idea when the schools will start distributing the “Choosing Your Secondary Schools” hardcopy booklet to our P6s?

After prelims? On PSLE results day?[/quote]

The book has been distributed.

[zac's mum]

sembgal\" post_id=\"2074953\" time=\"1658064521\" user_id=\"5559:

The book has been distributed.

Not at my son’s school…

[sembgal]

zac's mum\" post_id=\"2074956\" time=\"1658065606\" user_id=\"53606:[quote=\"zac's mum\" post_id=2074956 time=1658065606 user_id=53606]
Not at my son’s school…[/quote]

https://www.moe.gov.sg/-/media/files/secondary/2021/2021-s1-information-booklet-low-res.ashx?la=en&hash=B0A68698C3EBECF934C3A6DE1AB6C4D969841BA9

Sorry, I got confused with another book. No, it has not been distributed. You may want to refer to the previous version first.