MOE says 15 marks of the Mathematics PSLE paper are challenging. So average students can only hope to score 85% max?
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Mr.Clumsy\" post_id=\"2075147\" time=\"1658205080\" user_id=\"135989:
Yes. Method marks are given for the working.
Am I correct that even if the child is unable to fully solve one of those \"killer Qs,\" they may still score a mark or so if their working is correct? If yes, then there's every incentive to give it their best shot! -
Straits Times 2019 article. Behind paywall but luckily I have subscription.
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/education/why-psle-maths-papers-can-upset-parents
Question: Why do parents seem to frequently find fault with \"difficult\" mathematics questions at the Primary School Leaving Examination (PSLE), as they did this year?
Answer: That is because mathematics is the only subject which is seen to have a clear-cut formula for doing well, said tutors.
They added that the subject, compared with languages, has black-and-white answers, and some parents think it is the only practice-based subject where an A-star or full marks are within reach.
Mr Zhou Shicai, founder of NickleBee Tutors, which provides maths tuition, said: \"In languages or science, there can be multiple acceptable answers, explanations or composition formats.
\"But most maths questions have only two answers, the right answer and the wrong answer, leading to parents and students having a quick way of assessing how they did for the exams by comparing answers with each other.\"
Ms Regina Ong, who has been a private maths tutor for 17 years, said: \"Languages are very subjective. No one can be certain if they have the right answer or not.
For maths, you know if you have aced the paper or not right away.\"
The latest bout of unhappiness centred on three questions in the second section of the maths paper in this year's PSLE, which were singled out by pupils for being difficult, stumping many and leaving some in tears.
The questions were shared online after the paper last Friday, and a Facebook post by a parent airing her grievances on Monday was shared more than 1,000 times. Parents also took issue with tough maths questions in the PSLE in 2015 and 2017.
But educators and parents acknowledged that it is necessary to have a handful of challenging questions in any exam to assess a range of skills and abilities in pupils.
A parent of a Primary 6 pupil, who wanted to be known only as Ms Kiran, said it is \"fine to have a fair set of hard and easy questions in any exam\", but added that it is important to note that these pupils are still young.
Said the 42-year-old, who works in a multinational corporation: \"The first thing my son told me when he came home was, 'Mum, I failed. I tried but I don't think I can even pass.'\"
She said she consoled him and advised him to take the experience as a stepping stone, and give his best for the other papers.
The Singapore Examinations and Assessment Board (SEAB) has also said that there is a balance of \"basic, average and challenging\" questions in each national exam to maintain yearly standards.
Mr Zhou said: \"Some of the questions are naturally more challenging, and they exist to provide all students the chance to do their best at applying the maths problem-solving concepts and heuristics, as taught by their teachers in school, to those questions.\"
In a recent article on Schoolbag.sg, a publication by the Education Ministry, former chief executive of SEAB Tan Lay Choo said PSLE questions can be challenging, but have \"invisible scaffolding\" to help students make some headway in answering. \"At least, they can get started,\" she said. \"Kids will feel, 'I can do part one, just not part two'. But part one may give them a hint to part two and so on.\"
Secondary 1 student Deborah Toh, 13, who attempted the three questions out of interest, said: \"My first impression was that some of the questions looked very difficult. But after thinking and trying to visualise for about 10 minutes, it was quite easy to work out an answer.\"
But under exam conditions, she might have had trouble, she added.
Mr Zhou said most students have different strengths even in maths, and it is not necessarily true that only bright students can handle challenging questions.
\"Some are better at spatial analysis, some are good at pattern recognition, some prefer to use more visual approaches to solving questions, while others are adept at using more abstract problem-solving methods.\"
Observers said parents play an important role in supporting their children as they sit exams, by helping them to regain confidence even in difficult circumstances.
Dr Jessie Chua, a senior clinical psychologist from Resilienz Clinic, said that parents must constantly remind children that how they fare in a difficult exam is not representative of their self-worth, character or intelligence.
Having their parents' support at times like these can help children feel validated, loved and respected, she added. This \"eventually helps them to become resilient and resourceful individuals able to tackle challenges as they come\". -
tinker_bell\" post_id=\"2075240\" time=\"1658247905\" user_id=\"194652:
Tinklebell, may I know how old is your child? I just came across this old post from you (https://www.kiasuparents.com/kiasu/forum/viewtopic.php?f=92&t=40511&p=2062019#p2062019) and you seem to have done a lot of research comparing centres and have been generously sharing lots of details.
Appreciative of your feedback! How would you compare science enrichment at Pique lab with Blue tree education?
As for not needing special training to get Math AL1, I want to think so to.
But I keep reading comments in the parent chatgroups about how it is \"necessary to start math olympiad training to do well in those higher order PSLE math qns\". I am also told that \"GEP students and those with math competition experience would have gotten exposure to these challenging question types and hence breeze through even the toughest PSLE mathematics paper\". These are actual comments I read in the group chats!
I know many non-GEP kids who scored AL1 and AL2 without MO training or tuition. I have also spoken to Math HODs of a few schools who confirmed there is no need to do MO training or even MO books if our aim is to score AL1/AL2 in PSLE. If you compare the questions in the PSLE papers to those in MO assessment books, you should notice they are different. I read your child is highly motivated in Math and Sc but not so much in languages. With the extra notes and assessment books you bought for him, you will have more than enough questions to expose him. Besides all schools will get their students to practise 3 years of actual PSLE papers and load them with tons of practice papers in Pr 6.
I find your comment \"Even Bluetree etc...\" interesting though. Why \"Even\"? It is an enrichment centre, profit driven and must find customers. If they tell parents they have a magic formula, parents will flock to them. So many centres promote heavily on their special approach to tackle the challenging questions but I do not believe every child who is sent there will get AL1/2. As parents, we need to know the real reason our kids cannot score well. Tutors and centres are most useful when child is hardworking, motivated to learn but yet don't know how, shy to ask in school. Then having a teacher explaining again in smaller group may help lots. -
Zeal mummy\" post_id=\"2075222\" time=\"1658240497\" user_id=\"58173:[quote=\"Zeal mummy\" post_id=2075222 time=1658240497 user_id=58173]
That's what I told my little Clumsy one to do.
Yes, the child could still score a mark or two with the right steps, equation. Always tell them to calming break down the question into parts. Take the first equation and then the next and gradually work out the final solution.[/quote]
Sometimes it's so frustrating! He can get the workings correct and that make a blunder on the last line which gives him the wrong answer. But, the workings should help. -
manorway\" post_id=\"2075259\" time=\"1658278256\" user_id=\"9303:
Just want to point out the elephant in the room which some parents may find it hard to acknowledge, which is that some kids are just below average in Maths! Yes, I agree that we should not let kids take the easy way out by saying \"I can't do Maths\" and let them not try, but there is a line when \"encouragement\" becomes \"too much stress\" when I child is already trying hard but just can't manage tougher questions. I speak from experience as I have a child who I would say is \"average\" - she never failed, but had to work hard to get Bs and Cs (and I have another who didn't have to work unduly hard, but consistently got top marks). To push the weaker one harder and coach her more with the expectation that she would achieve As if only she (and we) tried harder would have been cruel after a point. Where that point is reached is something each parent needs to discern for each child.
... As parents, we need to know the real reason our kids cannot score well. Tutors and centres are most useful when child is hardworking, motivated to learn but yet don't know how, shy to ask in school. Then having a teacher explaining again in smaller group may help lots.
I suffered from this myself as a child - although I was extremely hardworking and did get the lower end of the As, I was never in the top range, and my father never failed to remind me that I should \"work harder\" and that I was not achieving up to his expectations. To grow up with that constant refrain is not something I would want to do to any child. He never recognised, as I eventually did, that I was just not wired up mentally to cope well with Maths, and to get the marks I did was a real testament to the amount of effort I had put in. -
manorway\" post_id=\"2075259\" time=\"1658278256\" user_id=\"9303:
My eldest kid is P5 this year. Took GEP test in 2020. Got through round 1 but did not pass round 2. Very motivated for mathematics and sciences. But yes, unfortunately, not so much for the languages. Ever since the school teachers pointed out that my kid was getting bored in maths and science lessons at school, I have been trying to find resources to stretch my kid. Can't afford to spend too much on tuition and enrichment so it's mostly DIY on my part or whatever enrichment the school offers.
Tinklebell, may I know how old is your child? I just came across this old post from you (https://www.kiasuparents.com/kiasu/forum/viewtopic.php?f=92&t=40511&p=2062019#p2062019) and you seem to have done a lot of research comparing centres and have been generously sharing lots of details.
Thank you for appreciating my effort, but as I always like to say, its good to care and share because that's what makes the world go round! Most of my recommendations come from parent groupchats, and anything interesting I read here I share with the parent groupchats too.manorway\" post_id=\"2075259\" time=\"1658278256\" user_id=\"9303:I think since GEP kids are like 1.5% of the cohort, so it's probably true that many many non-GEP kids will scored AL1 and AL2. ROFL. My kid's school teacher told me during PTM that she encourages those doing well in math and science to sign up for the school's math olympiad and science enrichment training because it will stretch them and prepare them for tough questions that may pop up in the PSLE. Her words not mine. It didn't help that the parents chatgroups I joined kinda reinforced this mindset. I even watched a video in a parents chatgroup, taken during a school talk with the parents, where there was a discussion on how widespread competition math training is making PSLE mathematics tougher due to the arms race effect.
Grew up in a chinese educated household so english is not my strongest suit. Apologies for wrong choice of word. Not sure how to rephrase it though. LOL. I agree with your comments though. Its a free market after all. Just a tad depressing as a parent wanting the best for her kids.
I actually bought some old PSLE TYS from carousell. Because I was told that the school will do only the 3 most recent years. So bought those from more than 3 years back for my kid to practice.manorway\" post_id=\"2075259\" time=\"1658278256\" user_id=\"9303:[quote=manorway post_id=2075259 time=1658278256 user_id=9303]I find your comment \"Even Bluetree etc...\" interesting though. Why \"Even\"? It is an enrichment centre, profit driven and must find customers. If they tell parents they have a magic formula, parents will flock to them. So many centres promote heavily on their special approach to tackle the challenging questions but I do not believe every child who is sent there will get AL1/2. As parents, we need to know the real reason our kids cannot score well. Tutors and centres are most useful when child is hardworking, motivated to learn but yet don't know how, shy to ask in school. Then having a teacher explaining again in smaller group may help lots.
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For those 15 marks challenging questions in Psle Maths,
to determine whether one can cross the AL " 2 " score boundary, or not -
SEAB can put these challenging qns, towards the "End" or the last few pages of the entire PSLE Maths exam paper.
But,
please don’t put any "*" (asterisk) to label such questions,
because
some P6 students’ brain will just freeze, get "stoned" in their mind, cannot think anymore, the moment they see "asterisk" marked. Some how, there is this psychological barrier inside their mind, once they see "asterisk". They begin to plant doubt in themselves :- "Aiyoh ! This asterisk question is so difficult ! I sure don’t know how to do, maybe i should give up … "
Of course for GEP P6 students, these "asterisk" questions will be a breeze to them !
But,
for Mainstream students, there will be a struggle for some. -
phtthp\" post_id=\"2075267\" time=\"1658281538\" user_id=\"35251:
I agree!
For those 15 marks challenging questions in Psle Maths,
to determine whether one can cross the AL \" 2 \" score boundary, or not -
SEAB can put these challenging qns, towards the \"End\" or the last few pages of the PSLE Maths exam paper.
But,
please don't put any \"*\" (asterisk) to label such questions,
because
some P6 students' brain will just freeze, get \"stoned\" in their mind, cannot think anymore, once they see \"asterisk\" marked.
Of course for GEP P6 students, these \"asterisk\" questions will be a breeze to them !
But,
for Mainstream students, there will be a struggle for some. -
tinker_bell\" post_id=\"2075266\" time=\"1658281399\" user_id=\"194652:
I apologize if responded harshly before. Other replies have been more constructive.
My eldest kid is P5 this year. Took GEP test in 2020. Got through round 1 but did not pass round 2. Very motivated for mathematics and sciences. But yes, unfortunately, not so much for the languages. Ever since the school teachers pointed out that my kid was getting bored in maths and science lessons at school, I have been trying to find resources to stretch my kid. Can't afford to spend too much on tuition and enrichment so it's mostly DIY on my part or whatever enrichment the school offers.
Thank you for appreciating my effort, but as I always like to say, its good to care and share because that's what makes the world go round! Most of my recommendations come from parent groupchats, and anything interesting I read here I share with the parent groupchats too.
I think since GEP kids are like 1.5% of the cohort, so it's probably true that many many non-GEP kids will scored AL1 and AL2. ROFL. My kid's school teacher told me during PTM that she encourages those doing well in math and science to sign up for the school's math olympiad and science enrichment training because it will stretch them and prepare them for tough questions that may pop up in the PSLE. Her words not mine. It didn't help that the parents chatgroups I joined kinda reinforced this mindset. I even watched a video in a parents chatgroup, taken during a school talk with the parents, where there was a discussion on how widespread competition math training is making PSLE mathematics tougher due to the arms race effect.
I actually bought some old PSLE TYS from carousell. Because I was told that the school will do only the 3 most recent years. So bought those from more than 3 years back for my kid to practice.
Grew up in a chinese educated household so english is not my strongest suit. Apologies for wrong choice of word. Not sure how to rephrase it though. LOL. I agree with your comments though. Its a free market after all. Just a tad depressing as a parent wanting the best for her kids.
Based on what you wrote and what your kid has been doing, he will have a very strong chance to get AL1 or AL2. Nothing is guaranteed; unfortunately PSLE can be a daunting event, even for the kids that are typically doing quite well in academics. But from what I have seen, it's not that your child is underprepared or lacking in ability to handle these questions.
I do, however, feel it is counterproductive for the kids if a) they have a natural ability somewhere below AL1 - AL2 but are forced into trying to get AL1 or AL2 (we don't see this in other subjects), or b) feel that they must get AL1 (or AL2) in math to end up with their targeted score (or qualify for a certain school, etc).
Good luck! -
tinker_bell\" post_id=\"2075266\" time=\"1658281399\" user_id=\"194652:
My P5 kid was invited to take part in the Math Olympiad and Math Olympiad training because of her aptitude to do well in math.
...
My kid's school teacher told me during PTM that she encourages those doing well in math and science to sign up for the school's math olympiad and science enrichment training because it will stretch them and prepare them for tough questions that may pop up in the PSLE.
...
It didn't help that the parents chatgroups I joined kinda reinforced this mindset. I even watched a video in a parents chatgroup, taken during a school talk with the parents, where there was a discussion on how widespread competition math training is making PSLE mathematics tougher due to the arms race effect.
...
In the same week, my P5 kid was also asked to attend math remedial because some of her test / exam results were not within acceptable levels (~ AL5).
Moral of the story... don't read too much into these stuff.
The requirements and tests administered during Olympiad are very different from the requirements and tests administered by school / for PSLE.
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