Can through-train school work in kiasu Singapore?

[Veyron]

Imp75\" post_id=\"2100983\" time=\"1678770539\" user_id=\"2358:

How about this. Drawing suggestions from discussions thus far. Remove PSLE and make all pri Sch TT to a cluster of schools nearby that pri Sch. Make it optional to take PSLE and pass certain hurdles if kids want to get into IP school otherwise progress to TT sec Sch and take O level at year 10. For those affiliated schools, continue to take in affiliated students and leave 20% for dsa. All students who don’t want take PSLE can take a shot at dsa to enter the IP schools or those affiliated Sch that they were not affiliated to. Like that everyone happy?

By making PSLE optional for all students in every school, there will be no need to term them as thru-train, as all secondary schools in Singapore, except IPs schools, will take in students without PSLE as long as there are still vacancies left after S1 posting for PSLE students. The only challenge perhaps is to decide if the student should be put into express or NT etc? Perhaps a special temp class should be created for non-PSLE admission students to allow the school to decide which class the student should be posted to. Or using of P6 prelim result?

To make it fair for all students, those who opt out of PSLE at P5 should not be eligible for DSA selection as this goes against the purpose of having a less stressful education pathway for primary school students. And also have to be fair to students who have to juggle PSLE and DSA-related activities.

By offering PSLE as an option, I believe more sec schools will have vacancies after S1 posting and AL COP may also be lower as a result of fewer applicants vying under PSLE S1 posting. This means students who take PSLE will be less stressed as well.

And for MOE, there will be no need to make special arrangements to accommodate any unexpected swing or low in demands for \"thru-train\", no need for special purposed to build TT infrastructure, and more importantly to fulfilled their obligation to allow students the option of skipping PSLE.

So the decision to take or skip PSLE will be in the hands of parents, not MOE and parents will have to accept that opting for the non-PSLE route will limit their choice of secondary schools. Which I presume will not be a problem since the goal here is to offer a less stressful primary school education and students will not feel bad if they do not do well in PSLE. And when they are promoted to Sec school, they will join other students from PSLE S1 posting. So there is no need to worry about being isolated from the mainstream.

[bbbay]

Imp75\" post_id=\"2100985\" time=\"1678772459\" user_id=\"2358:

Logically speaking …..why not? If time spent on drilling on exams can be replaced with enriched curriculum to learn about the world (ie sustainability, inter-dependency of ecosystems, astronomy, nature and science, geology etc) or to pursue their passion why not. Today, there are a sizeable number of athletes/performers who are so good but refuse to join the national squad bc they simply hv no time to balance both.

MOE could study the statistics on all DSA students’ performance in O/A levels exam, since their PSLE exam results have almost no bearing on their Sec school enrolment, just like in a TT program where students will skip PSLE and only take O level as first major exam. DSA student performance in O/A level exams may provide some close indication on how a TT program may turn out. Just an opinion of mine.

[00skyblue00]

There are sch proud kids from ABC pri, asked why is there no ABC sec, they will choose it if there is one. Aspire to go top XY is usually influenced by parents. If no parents influence, most kids are very simple.

If PSLE becomes P6 proficiency, kids will want to take it to progress further. Its like something to mark differentiate them as more grown up vs children.

If 11 yo is too young, then it can be at 12-13yo at sec 1. So all sec 1 intake are not sorted, tho will be tough on teachers, but after 1 year of taking 6 to 8 subjects, sch based assessment can be applied for subject based banding or similar.

[Imp75]

00skyblue00\" post_id=\"2100996\" time=\"1678777869\" user_id=\"143605:

There are sch proud kids from ABC pri, asked why is there no ABC sec, they will choose it if there is one. Aspire to go top XY is usually influenced by parents. If no parents influence, most kids are very simple.
If PSLE becomes P6 proficiency, kids will want to take it to progress further. Its like something to mark differentiate them as more grown up vs children.

If 11 yo is too young, then it can be at 12-13yo at sec 1. So all sec 1 intake are not sorted, tho will be tough on teachers, but after 1 year of taking 6 to 8 subjects, sch based assessment can be applied for subject based banding or similar.

Hahaha not always true…..this mommy is happy with any schools that fit their abilities but Hor it’s the daughter who wanted to go XY bc her coach said so lol…….

[00skyblue00]

Imp75\" post_id=\"2101000\" time=\"1678780002\" user_id=\"2358:

Hahaha not always true…..this mommy is happy with any schools that fit their abilities but Hor it’s the daughter who wanted to go XY bc her coach said so lol…….

Presumably her coach is coaching at XY sec school too? In TT scenario, coach will be also be teaching at TT sec sch, the whole formula will be different.
Exactly, still influenced by adult, to me...
Usually, if a child in p3 or 4, will not want to change sch to zzz p5 as the normal is to TT to p5, p6 in same sch. So under TT, p6 to s1 will be just like p3 to p4, p4 to p5.

[Imp75]

Actually to be honest, if my kids hv the ability to qualify for IP, I would do an opt-in. Otherwise I know my friends are happy with skipping psle and do a TT. One reason why those affiliated Sch are so hot bc PSLE doesn’t matter. Who knows with TT, maybe nobody will bother to ballot for affiliated Sch during P1 registration anymore.

[zac's mum]

sushi88\" post_id=\"2100959\" time=\"1678762232\" user_id=\"100857:

What is 2CS? I think it is cheaper to do a poll.
We should not create a system when people may feel that it is eventually a stigma for kids taking this route if it is a lesser group.

However, I am ok to see a 70/30 kind of vote in support of this, meaning 70% of people will take this route leaving 30% to dash for the over-the-edge crazy kind of academic competition and rigors like the physical 100. Normalisation is best felt with big numbers. Current NA and NT is nothing normal because the numbers are not saying it, how can they be known as normal? It's like Singapore is full of super-beings.

I find the current common PSLE and a choice of IP and secondary will at least give people a balance in their heart emotionally especially when Express, NA and NT are further removed. 心理平衡. Taking an exam at year 6 for some and year 10 for minority others may possibly tip the balance again :siao: right?

The cost is humongous for the kids who are enrolled for this pilot suggested!! :yikes: That is serious damage control for a group of kids if this pilot system does not do any good for them. OMG...

2CS school refers to those perpetually undersubscribed primary schools. They are bound to close down or merge sooner or later, so why not turn them into TT schools for a unique selling proposition?

I doubt 70% of parents want their kids to skip PSLE.
We can be quite sure that those with kids in the top 25% and winning Edusave awards year after year, they will aim for IP schools, therefore will want PSLE.
The demand will more likely come from those with kids in the middle to bottom of the cohort. To them, taking PSLE is pointless. Just give them a guaranteed secondary school to go to and they’ll be ok with that.

If somewhere later on in secondary school, child turns out to be a late bloomer, then they can exit by taking Sec 2, 3 entrance/transfer exams at their desired secondary schools. This transferring occurs already anyway in many secondary schools right now.

[lee_yl]

If TT is only avail to a small group while most can choose to opt out, I reckon most parents who opt out will be those from the upper middle class. They would want their kids to have a shot at IP instead of just being allocated to a no name sec sch. Then who will be left in the TT program? Will it be become a stigma because many who opt for TT are those from lower SES or from minority races? A good initiative with good intentions then become a stigma?


Which parent will sign up their P1 kid for TT to a no name Pri then to a no name sec? It’s like at 6yo, the kid has been banished to the fringes of society. All parents tend to think highly of their kids. 不到黄河心不死，unless we have tried and failed then we accept that our kids really cannot or else it is unlikely we just give up or not even try when they are just 6yo

[Imp75]

If wanna do then do big la….I prefer the opt-in option rather than opt-out and yes don’t localised to certain pri schools only……make it across all pri sch…….makes it a bit like GEP like that lah…those who opt in and qualify then go….otherwise the backup plan is there…I don’t think the 99.7% who are not in GEP are stigmatised leh….

[zac's mum]

If do big scale will totally screw up COPs. Are we ready to accept that?