All About Overseas Education
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slmkhoo\" post_id=\"2132739\" time=\"1713229148\" user_id=\"28674:
Thanks for sharing. Always a pleasure to read.
Having had 2 kids (and many of their friends) go through university recently and start work, I would say that the most important thing is the person's abilities, interests and personality. Fine distinctions between title of degree and courses matter less than what the student actually studied, how interested he is, and what he brings to the job.
The double major vs major+minor vs single major distinction is basically the age-old discussion between breadth and depth. Especially if the 2 subjects taken as double majors are quite different, the student studies less in each of them. If the 2 majors have some overlap, then there is less breadth and therefore, probably, more depth. In some universities, taking a double major requires studying an extra year (5 yrs vs 4 yrs), in which case it may be that depth is not sacrificed as much for breadth. Some employers like breadth, but some will prefer depth, depending on the role applied for. It isn't the case the breadth is always preferred.
For parents advising their children, do take into account your kids' personalities too - some prefer (or cope better with) breadth, and some prefer (or cope better with) depth, and this will affect how much they gain from their courses, how well they perform, and how satisfied they will be with their studies. The danger of opting too early for breadth is that it is difficult to double back and go into depth later (not impossible, but more difficult to find opportunities and time). A student who has gone deep first will find it easier to go broad later in life.
Take my kids as examples - my older girl is not the kind who goes deep, and we knew she would struggle with such courses. The modular system (NTU and probably in other local universities, and in the US) made it easier to choose courses that worked for her, and gave her a good survey of the humanities/social sciences areas.
My younger girl can do both breadth and depth, but decided that she wanted to go deep first, rather than go broad. (Partly our influence!) She could have done that in Singapore/US universities by choosing appropriate courses, but chose to go to a more traditional university in the UK and focus on aspects of a single subject (Econs). Having worked for nearly 3 yrs now, she has picked up other things along the way, not all through formal courses. I fully expect her to decide to do a Masters at some point, when she knows what area she wants to do it in, and it is likely to be \"broad\" in some area where Econs is an advantage. I can't see her doing purely Econs for a postgrad course.
And note: Econs nowadays is no longer a \"humanities\" subject even if the degree is a BA - it requires quite high mathematical ability and often computing and data science knowledge as well. That is why Econs is increasingly placed under social sciences or even sciences. The degree awarded is often more about where the university decides to place it rather than the content the course covers.
Generally employers are not too particular abt the specifics of the degree attained? Except for academic. Most public sectors jobs are not technical based like requiring an engineer to design a structure etc. They will engage technical professionals instead. So isn't it not so critical what modules of study constitute to the degree?
Private sector mainly look for right attitude and driven to produce results rather than results unless one is getting a job at Microsoft or google.
So a FCH is more valuable than a double major? So the discussion is on FCH single major vs FCH double degree? -
SG_KP1\" post_id=\"2132758\" time=\"1713235857\" user_id=\"188234:
The traditional view of Business is that it's more \"practical\" and probably not really an academic discipline, hence it's absence from traditional university offerings. The view is that Business knowledge can be picked up as needed by anyone able to get through a formal university degree.
I have mixed feelings about how some of the courses have moved over time. As a test of intellectual horsepower, the degree is probably more well regarded today, and kids have the ability to crossover into some of the related areas that were mentioned (computing, data science, etc). On the other hand, some of the math may be overload compared to what many will actually do in their jobs (time better spent elsewhere?). It also depends on whether you want to be building the models and testing stuff or using the general insights from the field for broader things like policy (interpret the results and make decisions). Also, many of the sought after universities in the US/UK don't have an undergrad business department, so this is the closest thing.
I think many share the same thoughts about Econs vs. Business as what you've wrote elsewhere. At the same time, the labour market tends to value them pretty equally (comparable universities). Perhaps it comes back to what is actually done in a typical workday? Regardless, I think a lot depends on what one is looking for in the education. Generally speaking, the math in econ will probably keep some additional things open vs. a standard business degree, but even that is getting blurred today with some of the computing related things tied to business (again, it will depend on the exact coursework and the student's underlying ability).
There is also a difference in views about university degrees - is it something to prepare young people to be ready to work from day 1? Or is it a way to stretch their intellectual prowess, with the the understanding that the nuts and bolts of the working world can be picked up along the way as needed? With large swathes of young people going to university (as opposed to only the top 10% or fewer in earlier years) there is probably a need to provide both types of university education to cater to different abilities and desires. Employers have to decide what kind of employee they seek - one who has learned to \"do the job\", or one who has the ability to tackle jobs that he hasn't been taught how to do at university? The heavy maths may not be useful to that employee in his first job, or even in any jobs down the line, but it has made him stretch his learning and thinking, and allowed him to prove what he is capable of. In any case, although computers can do a lot, only a human can tell if the computer has produced a sensible solution. Someone still has to have overall control over what the computer does!
For those who don't want to do the heavy maths of modern Econs degree, probably Sociology or History may be more up their street. -
Sociology can also be quite math heavy! Lots of data at the population and behavioural levels
Especially if one goes down the demography route...
History yes, it can involve little to no math. -
00skyblue00\" post_id=\"2132760\" time=\"1713236420\" user_id=\"143605:
Sorry - what's FCH? [just was told that it's first class honours]
Thanks for sharing. Always a pleasure to read.
Generally employers are not too particular abt the specifics of the degree attained? Except for academic. Most public sectors jobs are not technical based like requiring an engineer to design a structure etc. They will engage technical professionals instead. So isn't it not so critical what modules of study constitute to the degree?
Private sector mainly look for right attitude and driven to produce results rather than results unless one is getting a job at Microsoft or google.
So a FCH is more valuable than a double major? So the discussion is on FCH single major vs FCH double degree?
I think any student who gets a first in any course will demonstrate intellectual prowess!
I think employers differ as to how \"work ready\" they want an employer to be. In general, the larger the company, the more open they seem to be about looking for ability rather than specific skills, especially for the \"management trainee\" type roles. Of course, there may be some level of skills in certain areas that are necessary depending on the job or industry. There will also be some roles they need to fill urgently which require very specific skills and experience, so if someone has those, that could be a good way to get a job too. -
slmkhoo\" post_id=\"2132754\" time=\"1713233008\" user_id=\"28674:
Agree, thanks for sharing.
Rather than look at the degree name, it's more important to look into the courses and the overall \"leaning\" of the course in each university. Besides looking at the course structure (compulsory and elective courses), there are probably comments and reviews online. Some courses will involve more maths and stats, others more politics, other more social sciences. Some have a larger compulsory core and fewer electives, others may be the other way round. Employers are discerning - they will ask for full transcripts to see what exactly the student has studied and whether that fits with what they are looking for. A weak student may cruise through by taking more \"easy\" courses, while another may choose more challenging ones. The degree will be the same, even the GPA may be the same, but the transcript will indicate which student is more interested and able.
Over at NTU open house, I asked about the difference and was told that B.Sc Econs with Data Analytics is very heavy into computer coding.
Over at NUS open house, the volunteer stationed there was an Econs grad who majored in Business Analytics. Couldn’t recall what I asked but he did impress me. I also asked about Quantitative Finance, which was heavy in maths. My DD said she is ok with maths but not coding. -
doodbug\" post_id=\"2132762\" time=\"1713237352\" user_id=\"13281:
It's statistics though. I think all university courses in social sciences will require some level of statistics simply because of the surveys and studies they need to read and do. But there is much more maths required in Econs I think. (Disclaimer: I am maths-averse, so just saying what I've heard with little understanding!)
Sociology can also be quite math heavy! Lots of data at the population and behavioural levels Especially if one goes down the demography route...
History yes, it can involve little to no math. -
slmkhoo\" post_id=\"2132765\" time=\"1713237754\" user_id=\"28674:
I think most social science disciplines can involve heavy doses of applied maths (statistics and econometrics), and increasingly, R programming.
It's statistics though. I think all university courses in social sciences will require some level of statistics simply because of the surveys and studies they need to read and do. But there is much more maths required in Econs I think. (Disclaimer: I am maths-averse, so just saying what I've heard with little understanding!)
Statistics in A level math has been cut compared to my time (I only read C Maths, did not do F Maths). I'm surprised the A levels no longer covers T and chi-squared distributions. -
slmkhoo\" post_id=\"2132761\" time=\"1713237203\" user_id=\"28674:
I totally agree. This is the crux of it all. With large numbers going to university these days, universities have evolved different pathways to suit different interests and inclinations.
With large swathes of young people going to university (as opposed to only the top 10% or fewer in earlier years) there is probably a need to provide both types of university education to cater to different abilities and desires.
Some will value flexibility and breadth. This is especially important for students who have had a narrow pre-university experience and want to build on different skills and experiences, and to try out new things.
Yet others, will prefer building depth. Perhaps because their pre-university life experiences and exposure has already been very broad, and they see university as primarily to hone depth and specialization in their chosen academic discipline, even if it is not needed at work. -
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lee_yl\" post_id=\"2132764\" time=\"1713237613\" user_id=\"17023:
But Biz Analytics is under Faculty of Computing in NUS, , i think still need to do some amt of Comp Prog langauge
Agree, thanks for sharing.
Over at NTU open house, I asked about the difference and was told that B.Sc Econs with Data Analytics is very heavy into computer coding.
Over at NUS open house, the volunteer stationed there was an Econs grad who majored in Business Analytics. Couldn’t recall what I asked but he did impress me. I also asked about Quantitative Finance, which was heavy in maths. My DD said she is ok with maths but not coding.
https://www.comp.nus.edu.sg/programmes/ug/ba/
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