CNA Article - The Big Read: Fuelled partly by youths' anxiety, the internship rat race has unintended effects
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lee_yl\" post_id=\"2135260\" time=\"1718804129\" user_id=\"17023:
But after they grow up, they will realise that there are jobs where the ipad is affordable with X hours of work vs Y days of work.
We were all young before…. I can remember when I first stepped into the work force, I wanted to showcase my ability to my bosses. At 21yo, don’t tell me one has no ambition but at 62yo, one wants to climb the cooperate ladder?! It is simply natural for young persons to have dreams and work hard towards realizing their dreams. Psychologically, young persons have higher energy level and have time on their side.
For the example of the civil servant you quoted, when Mr Kumar was younger, he also worked very hard, clinched the PSC scholarship, took Law at Cambridge and worked for 2 ministries before he decided to call it a day.
My DD1 told me if she can’t take the stress in high finance, she will take a step back to do some backend data analysis jobs, I told her it’s ok!
I remember 2 years ago, I shared about my DD2 who said she only needed an iPad, a bed and a NTUC cashier salary to survive for the rest of her life.
My words shocked many parents in ksp because this is not what is expected of a 17yo. Ironically, when now I said young people should be naturally ambitious, I got rebuffed. Oh well…
Comfort level of mattress also vary.
Am taste also vary within their broad categories.
Nothing wrong whichever one chooses. For myself, will prefer kids be aware of more destinations and discetion to choose. -
Imp75\" post_id=\"2135235\" time=\"1718785736\" user_id=\"2358:
Need perfect GPA? So stressful… even 1st Class Hons also do not need perfect GPA.
Yes quite sad. Forgot to say….besides only spending 30% in curriculum, yet they expect perfect gpa! Machiam like superman!!! I just close both eyes…..
I think I know the reason, because there are people who showcase their good GPA on their LinkedIn profile !!! -
Imp75\" post_id=\"2135252\" time=\"1718793407\" user_id=\"2358:
My answer will be 陪你一起走。累了,可以依着我。
Hypothetical qn. What happens if your young partner is very driven and spend 24/6 in office enjoying his work and climbing up the corporate ladder? Would you do the same so you both can retire young retire rich or would you choose a job that got work/life balance but you end up being very free while your partner is not there most of the time. -
Liew Nga Wing\" post_id=\"2135234\" time=\"1718785605\" user_id=\"195250:[quote=\"Liew Nga Wing\" post_id=2135234 time=1718785605 user_id=195250]
Of cos I know don’t need 1st or 2nd upper still can get married and buy a BTO lah.
I don't know what your DD has encountered. Every year, there are fresh graduate joining my company, just last week two fresh graduate joined my department. Not everyone are 1st or 2nd Upper degree. Our HR and bosses chosen them - are largely depend on their performance during interview. Once they joined us, no one will care whether they are 1st or 2ne degree. We only concern whether they are willing to learn, willing to work hard and how to handle their interpersonal relationship (operate with others) in our office.
My DS is not 1st or 2nd Upper degree, still can get good jobs and relatively good pay - at lease sufficient for getting marriage and a BTO HDB house.[/quote]
But it is very real that some jobs only look for 1st and 2nd upper. Even for some ministries, 2nd upper and 2nd lower can mean being recruited into different schemes of service.
There must be a reason why undergrads hope to get at least 2nd upper what. Get, give oneself more options, don’t get, life still goes on. -
Coolkidsrock2\" post_id=\"2135263\" time=\"1718805051\" user_id=\"48901:
Clap clap super supportive partner!!
My answer will be 陪你一起走。累了,可以依着我。 -
lee_yl\" post_id=\"2135264\" time=\"1718806875\" user_id=\"17023:
My kids also reasoned with me and told me all their lives they had worked hard since pri Sch to sec to jc and then to uni to get to where they are, along the way, definitely sacrifices were made but they are ok with it because at the end of the day, they also want to graduate with a degree that provides the most options for them. But I really didn’t expect this last leg is not an easy experience (ie graduating is easy but to build up the portfolio takes a lot of effort)so have to provide a lot of mental and physical support whenever we could.
Of cos I know don’t need 1st or 2nd upper still can get married and buy a BTO lah.
But it is very real that some jobs only look for 1st and 2nd upper. Even for some ministries, 2nd upper and 2nd lower can mean being recruited into different schemes of service.
There must be a reason why undergrads hope to get at least 2nd upper what. Get, give oneself more options, don’t get, life still goes on. -
Imp75\" post_id=\"2135265\" time=\"1718807072\" user_id=\"2358:
No lah, the cheapest thing in the world is \"talk\". 更动听的 also can say. Heart sure melt if say \"我不在乎你飞的多高,我在乎的你累不累“
Clap clap super supportive partner!!
DH told DS not to believe any single word if anyone says things like this to him. -
Imp75\" post_id=\"2135265\" time=\"1718807072\" user_id=\"2358:
No lah, the cheapest thing in the world is \"talk\". 更动听的 also can say. Heart sure melt if say \"我不在乎你飞的多高,我在乎的你累不累“
Clap clap super supportive partner!!
DH told DS not to believe any single word if anyone says things like this to him. -
Imp75\" post_id=\"2135266\" time=\"1718807734\" user_id=\"2358:
Break down the process into bite-size goals. Once a goal has been achieved, work towards the next aspiration. This makes the next one more achievable.
My kids also reasoned with me and told me all their lives they had worked hard since pri Sch to sec to jc and then to uni to get to where they are, along the way, definitely sacrifices were made but they are ok with it because at the end of the day, they also want to graduate with a degree that provides the most options for them. But I really didn’t expect this last leg is not an easy experience (ie graduating is easy but to build up the portfolio takes a lot of effort)so have to provide a lot of mental and physical support whenever we could.
遇强则强 whatever can hurt / kill you can hurt / kill others too. Treat it as a learning opportunity.
Our kids are still young - plenty of opportunities to pick themselves up. Just ensure not the same mistake twice.
Personally feel that they are luckier than us as they do not need to support the family in the way some of us have to. And they have the benefit of better guidance and experience. 起跑线不一样了 -
Let us not forget about the environment.
We do not live in a vacuum. We influence our environment and are influenced by our environment.
We can harbor our wishes such as earning comfortably without joining the rat race, getting our dream jobs despite our internships or in spite of our 2nd majors or class of honours. HOWEVER, unless we can control our environment, our environment, uncontrolled, shall control us => our wishes remain as wishes only.
Our most potent influence on our environment is our political vote. We get what we vote for.
At the moment, the biggest environmental influence on us, our children, our grandchildren, is CECA. CECA is a political topic in Singapore, supported by many CECA big picture statements, such as, “CECA creates jobs for citizens.”
On May 12, 2024 another CECA big picture statement surfaced which is, we paraphrase, … it is important to attract foreign talent from India IITs and India IIMs because “securing a place in the prestigious IITs and IIMs in India is similar to getting into MIT or Stanford University.”
When murmur is rife that a CS degree from NUS cannot hold a candle to a diploma from Uptron, we might be in deeper trouble than we think because there is a big difference between jobs which citizens don’t want to do and jobs which pay the median wage. (Is it okay for Changi Business Park to be Changalore?)
CECA is an insanity topic in Singapore. If a large population is a good thing then the most populous country in the world would have been an economic power already and so far that human eyes can see it is not so. (Is it okay to accept blindly someone’s insanity just because this someone has chosen to double down on the population growth = GDP grow theory?)
Literacy is a small word with very big implications.
Many know by instinct illiteracy = cannot read and write.
Many, also by instinct, think literacy = can read and write. Here, the instinct of many is incorrect. This is because reading is a skill whereas writing is an ability. A skill is a potential possessed and it can be infinite. An ability, on the other hand, is a potential expressed and is finite. This explains why many may read the same textbooks but not many can do equally well in the same exams.
The meaning of literacy today has become very muddled => it can mean different things to different people. In order to avoid confusion, literacy is now mostly spoken of in a hyphenated way, such as, computer-literacy, statistical-literacy, social-literacy, etc.
The most obvious literacy issues in Singapore, and more so since 2004, is political-literacy and parenting-literacy. Like writing, political-literacy and parenting-literacy are abilities that must be tediously learned and different people have them at different levels. It shall take many pages to elaborate in detail but simply said, political-literacy dictates the type of government and parenting-literacy dictates the type of children.
While many may accept without much argument about their lacking in accounting-literacy or AI-literacy, 2 in 3 old enough to vote shall argument vehemently they are not lacking in political-literacy and almost to the last parent shall argue until their faces go red there is zero chance they are lacking in parenting-literacy.
Those who dispute lacking in political-literacy ask, we read the Straits Times daily and follow diligently all Mediacorp news broadcasts so how can we lack political-literacy?
Those who dispute lacking in parenting-literacy ask, our parents didn’t go to school and they gave birth to a dozen children and all of us have come out well and so how can we not do equally well as parents like our parents especially when we hold degrees from this U and that U?
Ignorance is not bliss. When the COE for a small car can cross S$100k and the price of a small apartment can cross S$1,000k, the lack of political-literacy and parenting-literacy hurt the young much more than the old. The old can fold up and stop struggling, and, perhaps, can still laugh joyously in their daily bmw commutes. It is not so for the young. The young need to earn enough to ensure their young are not too far behind others in their starting lines. (Is it really true car-lite is for sheep only and not for those who mouthed car-lite? Is it really true this small island nation can accommodate 6.9m mouths or 10.0m mouths without the ills of over-crowding? Is it really true it is okay to make median wage and still BTO and have children at current prices, when where the children start in their starting lines depends on where their parents place them?) -
There may be advantages from having a long list of internship experiences on graduates’ resume. It’s like between us 2 adults, the one with 10 years of working experiences stand better chance than another with 2, with everything else being equal. But it’s also important those internship experiences are relevant to what the recruiting company is looking for. A graduate with 2 internships, doing emerging market analysis will be in better position than another that did 10 internships, doing coding, when both graduates apply for same economist job. My relative told me during his undergraduate days they started to figure what sector they want to build a career in, then plan backwards, look for internships during Uni days in those flagship companies that can build their portfolio, to let them stand out after graduation.
If the internships competitions get too much, when it mean have to sacrifice something else, like basic leisure time, then I think it’s better don’t join the frenzy, even if it’s may mean losing out in the beginning. From my own experience, sometimes after getting what we dream of, the feelings that come with it are not as wonderful as we imaging them to be. Some may think, maybe try even harder next time, to earn even more, then will be happy. Sometimes this is not the case at all.
I guess it’s important to be aware what is the real motivation behind wanting to build up impressive list of internships: to get that first job with a billion dollar company? In order to have a successful career? To earn lots of money? To live a comfortable life? Will we really be comfortable at the end of the day? Do we really need that much to live that comfortable life? I think some people don’t see any alternative of a good life other than making lots of money. But I also believe this group in minority. The other minority are on the other end of the spectrum: “bo chap”. The majority are in the middle, moderates
The article title has the word anxiety. I think it accurately describe the motivation behind the frenzy. If youth can invest sometimes in building up their sense of security too, it could help in reducing the stress from needing to do more that are mean for reducing anxieties. -
I guess we all have different views. Just to say that I don’t believe that all people can or should want to rise to the top in the most competitive careers as their first choice, then drop back to a 2nd, 3rd choice if they can’t take it. I give myself as an example, which perhaps will encourage some who think that it’s completely impossible.
I did OK up to university, was never the super-competitive type, and chose to aim for a job that I felt suited me - being a librarian. I was warned - dead-end, poor pay, poor prospects… My husband supported me - we felt that I could aim to do well within the librarian career instead of civil service/legal/finance (which was what my father wanted); we were prepared to live within our means. I was spared the trying hard at a job only to find it too hard, too competitive, something I disliked or failed at. I enjoyed the work itself. I can tell you that we are the only ones of our friends who has never moved out of HDB, and live and travel at a different level from all of them. It really doesn’t bother us, our friends have not shunned us, and our family has been happy and contented all these years. My motivation has always been to do a good job, whether or not it rewards the best in terms of pay or promotions. Of course I expect to paid fairly, but if it’s 50% less than I could be earning in some other job I like less, it doesn’t matter to me, and thankfully, to my husband. He has made similar choices in his own career, and it seems my daughters adopt the same thinking.
This probably shows, again, that my family is very much an outlier, but I put this out here to show that there is no need to follow the herd in every aspect of life. There are consequences of our choices - but we can choose to be satisfied with doing our jobs as best as we can and be happier with less, rather than being stressed by the need to compete and climb. -
Speaking from another person who is also not that competitive with outside people…actually I find it ok de. So long as they not at bottom, if can at average standing with the rest, will happy event to me already. Dd told me at start of holiday…at the end of our conversation on what her friends worked before, after considering some good and bad, she told me that she finds working at bubble tea shop should be quite interesting. I think it is ok for them to experience different thing.
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MrsKiasu\" post_id=\"2135280\" time=\"1718846409\" user_id=\"43981:
Ha...ha.. she can enjoy free bubble tea everyday when working in bubble tea shop. :evil:
Speaking from another person who is also not that competitive with outside people..actually I find it ok de. So long as they not at bottom, if can at average standing with the rest, will happy event to me already. Dd told me at start of holiday..at the end of our conversation on what her friends worked before, after considering some good and bad, she told me that she finds working at bubble tea shop should be quite interesting. I think it is ok for them to experience different thing.
Last time, when DS worked as part time waiter in hotel cafe during holiday, he could enjoy free hotel buffet food -
Liew Nga Wing\" post_id=\"2135281\" time=\"1718848166\" user_id=\"195250:[quote=\"Liew Nga Wing\" post_id=2135281 time=1718848166 user_id=195250]
Hmm.. next time I tell her Starbucks also good
Ha...ha.. she can enjoy free bubble tea everyday when working in bubble tea shop. :evil:
Last time, when DS worked as part time waiter in hotel cafe during holiday, he could enjoy free hotel buffet food [/quote] -
slmkhoo\" post_id=\"2135279\" time=\"1718845851\" user_id=\"28674:
I guess we all have different views. Just to say that I don't believe that all people can or should want to rise to the top in the most competitive careers as their first choice, then drop back to a 2nd, 3rd choice if they can't take it. I give myself as an example, which perhaps will encourage some who think that it's completely impossible.
I did OK up to university, was never the super-competitive type, and chose to aim for a job that I felt suited me - being a librarian. I was warned - dead-end, poor pay, poor prospects... My husband supported me - we felt that I could aim to do well within the librarian career instead of civil service/legal/finance (which was what my father wanted); we were prepared to live within our means. I was spared the trying hard at a job only to find it too hard, too competitive, something I disliked or failed at. I enjoyed the work itself. I can tell you that we are the only ones of our friends who has never moved out of HDB, and live and travel at a different level from all of them. It really doesn't bother us, our friends have not shunned us, and our family has been happy and contented all these years. My motivation has always been to do a good job, whether or not it rewards the best in terms of pay or promotions. Of course I expect to paid fairly, but if it's 50% less than I could be earning in some other job I like less, it doesn't matter to me, and thankfully, to my husband. He has made similar choices in his own career, and it seems my daughters adopt the same thinking.
This probably shows, again, that my family is very much an outlier, but I put this out here to show that there is no need to follow the herd in every aspect of life. There are consequences of our choices - but we can choose to be satisfied with doing our jobs as best as we can and be happier with less, rather than being stressed by the need to compete and climb.
Actually not wanting to compete and raise to the top of corporate career, instead work for a cause, is quite common. And it’s very prominent in Singapore. And these are the best of our people. Not people that lack ambition and don’t know any better. Your family is definitely not outlier.
All our heads of civil services and officer holders, could have gotten much more if they choose to maximise their earning potential by working in private sectors. Our office holders earn around the most around $2million per year? banks CEOs make much more than that. Our permanent secretaries were CEO caliber people. SIA was started by one of them, and many more GLCs in their early days. These permanent secretaries were affectionately call “fools” in a recent book about their hidden contributions. They prioritised -
I understand that the local uni scholars get first bite of the cherry - they've priority applying for internships. How does that work?
Since uni scholarships are largely based on A level results, does that mean competition for uni internships starts at JC level? Due to the integrated program where one's JC can be more or less settled by the time one completes primary sch education, does that imply that the internship rat race starts at PSLE?
OMG! What am I saying! :nailbite:
Jokes aside, as a parent, all I want is for my kid to be happy. He can choose to be an engineer, teacher, lawyer, entrepreneur, whatever. He's not a trophy who needs to be earning big bucks so that I can show off to relatives during CNY gatherings. That's just shallow. I believe most of us here feel the same way. -
I feel that our kids have been trained since young and that they might think it’s their way of life to build up their portfolio.
For those who have applied for DSA with their primary school kids would know that there is a lot of preparatory works on top of coping with the usual school curriculum. Like attending Math Olympiad training, enter MO competition (must try to get at least sliver somemore). Likewise for sports DSA. Come to Uni level, now need to prepare impressive portfolio for ABA and interviews, like volunteering work, relevant work experiences to the course one applied to, outstanding CCA (join student council etc.)
All these building up of nice portfolio started when the kids were in primary school! Maybe we think it is scary but to them, they have been brought up this way and probably this is just how life should be ?!?! -
lee_yl\" post_id=\"2135245\" time=\"1718789755\" user_id=\"17023:
Yes, you are correct - have to 认命 because never able to strike a 8 millions TOTO. :sad:
I thought it is normal for most uni undergraduates to want to do well? Say, they will try to get at least 2nd upper (but whether they can or not, that is another matter lah).
And upon graduation, when one comes out to work as a fresh grad, most youngsters are ambitious, want to climb the corporate ladder and do well. Only when one gets stuck for many years without promotion, then the person will sort of 认命。So to me, it is natural that young people to want to aim high. -
lee_yl\" post_id=\"2135308\" time=\"1718864170\" user_id=\"17023:
lee_yl,
I feel that our kids have been trained since young and that they might think it’s their way of life to build up their portfolio.
For those who have applied for DSA with their primary school kids would know that there is a lot of preparatory works on top of coping with the usual school curriculum. Like attending Math Olympiad training, enter MO competition (must try to get at least sliver somemore). Likewise for sports DSA. Come to Uni level, now need to prepare impressive portfolio for ABA and interviews, like volunteering work, relevant work experiences to the course one applied to, outstanding CCA (join student council etc.)
All these building up of nice portfolio started when the kids were in primary school! Maybe we think it is scary but to them, they have been brought up this way and probably this is just how life should be ?!?!
The rat race has actually started since kindergarten days, from as young as 4 years old.
Do u recall that parents have started sending their sons & daughters to several type of kindergarten enrichment(s)?
Example
=======
1)
Parents send their daughters at 4 or 5 years old, nursery age onwards to learn Rhythmic Gymnastics, to attend ballet dancing, etc. You can see so many young toddlers wearing their ballet costume, attending this or that ballet school, in the presence of their proud mothers.
Why ?
so that by the time they reach 7 years old, Primary 1, Cca Coaches like Rythmic Gym instructors can easily identify out these young girls , who have painstakingly been trained past 3 years ago, at the age of 4 years old to 7 years old, to represent their primary school at lower Primary 1 level, in \"Rhythmic gymnastics\" (RG) in inter-school competition, against some other primary schools?
One good example ?
Take a look at Raffles Girls primary school.
Take another look at CHIJ St Nicholas Girls' Primary school -
how they select Primary 1 candidates, to join their school team, for RG.
Also,
take a look at Nanyang primary school, how they select students to join their school team in AG.
NYPS do offer AG, instead of RG !
Also, take a look at SCGS.
See how they select their lower primary candidates (students), to join their school team, in dancing.
2) how about for young boys?
Well, the same thing happened too !
Parents send their young sons at 5 years old for Sports, like fencing, tennis, badminton, takewando, wushu, swimming in their condominum swimming pool, etc.
Take a look at ACS primary schools, in both ACS branches.
Take a look at MGS (Girls) school, at Blackmore drive.
What happen to these children, when they grow up into primary, secondary, into Junior Colleges ?
Because
From as young as 5 years old, as a kindergarten toddler, they have already been taught : one must always build up an active, impressive portfolio, must have a strong Cca on your plate to exhibit your talents, so that u stand a chance for DSA. Cannot just remain passive, just study only, and expect to be selected for DSA. No such thing. This won't happen. This already drilled into them, from as young as 5 years old.
Therefore,
is it any wonder then that they will continue practising this same old style of behavior pattern and thinking, even when they enter into universities, before they even start to graduate or start to apply for jobs ?
No !
It Is only a natural progression, for them to think & behave like this.
Why ?
Because
of the \" kiasu\" competitive rat race behavior mentality taught or they have been exposed to, since young, from as young as 4 or 5 years old, when they were merely kindergarten toddlers.