CMA Math - Discussion

[onyva]

Hiyo parents,


I’ve used and benefitted much from this thread as reference when deciding on whether to let my 6yo girl enrol in CMA class at Kovan. So I thought it’ll be fitting for me to share my experience on the same thread.

My girl we find is easily distracted. And she seemed to be having difficulty in simple addition & subtraction when we tested her on simple maths problem. So after reading this thread, and thinking that CMA may help instil some discipline and improve her aptitude towards numbers, we enrolled her with CMA last Oct.

Things went okay for first term. The concepts taught were very simple, mainly to familiarize with the abacus and very simple addition, not unlike conventional maths.

But 2nd term onwards was a nitemare. The formula taught, or 口诀, were numerous and homework increased exponentially. It was already pretty heavy during the first term, with an average of 8 pages from each of the 2 books, but it was still manageable as they were mainly picture symbols and each page has around 12-15 qns. But the 2nd term homework were horrendous – I can’t recall now how many qns per page, but I do remember counting at least >200 qns to be done for one book, and there’s another book to complete as well, albeit lesser exercises to complete.

My gal just couldn’t handle it. She’s just a 5yo at that time after all, an average kid really, totally not like those maths whiz kids who love doing a million sums a day. I too just found it incredulous after a while. Beside the huge workload, there’s also the formulae which I have a big issue with. It is, truly, like many of the other previous posts said, totally not in line with the “conventional maths” that are taught in pri schools. A simple question like 9 + 1, it has to be done this way on the abacus: + 9 – 9 + 10, because in abacus speak, +1= - 9 + 10. Similarly, +2 = - 8 + 10, and so on. It’s another whole set of formulae for doing sums like 3 + 2. This is mainly due to the limited no. of beads on each column of the abacus, coz you don’t have 10 beads in each column and there’s no luxury of adding one bead by one bead.

I got increasingly frustrated by the formulae. Honestly, my gal is already having difficulty grasping the basic concepts of simple adding, all these formulae just confuse her even more. I used to sit with her to do ½ hr CMA maths, and ½ hr conventional maths, coz I knew before signing up for CMA that it’s very different from conventional maths, so I wanted to ensure she still got her basic concepts right, since these are what’s taught in her pre-school. But as the CMA homework increased, I had to spend 2-3 hrs with her just to do the CMA stuff, leaving us no time, or energy to deal with the normal maths. Also, she got so frus, I got so frus, sometimes we both just break down and cry. She coz she doesn’t understand what mama is trying to teach her, first 9+1 is just simply the next number after 9. Then next min mama is telling her, no no no, 9 + 1 = first add 9 on the abacus, then minus away the 9, and add a 10. I cried coz I lost my patience with her, which I know is such a big taboo in teaching maths, or anything, and I felt guilty for being harsh with her.

But we stuck it out till 3rd term. Mostly coz I did still hope that CMA will help in her aptitude towards numbers. Maybe if she got the hang of it, she’ll be more comfortable with numbers and it’ll become easier. But it never did get easier. It only got worse. And it didn’t help that I increasingly find that the teacher, and teaching method, is so dry and boring. My gal couldn’t keep up, so the teacher often pulled us to one side after lessons to tell us that we have to drill, DRILL, DRILL the formulae into my gal, otherwise she will never keep up and there’ll be EVEN MORE formulae to be drilled as she progressed.

That was the last straw. I stopped sending her to the CMA classes after just attending 2 classes of Term 3, which I fully paid for the entire term. I couldn’t bear to let my gal go through the drilling anymore. It was really drill drill drill. I see no point in it anymore coz it seems like they are being trained to be human calculators. Robots. There’s totally no fun in the teaching process in CMA at all. Yah, they sing songs, do some join-the-dots puzzles. But 99% is drill. And the Taiwanese CMA teacher doesn’t look like she injects any fun at all into the lessons. Like some parents have observed, the maths taught in pri school are really abt English, and problem solving, not spitting out of numbers.

I believe that some kids are mathematically inclined and they can easily switch from abacus-mode to normal maths mode. Like some parents said, these kids use mental maths to double check answers to problems they had solved using conventional maths concepts. That’s well and good for these kids. But I know my child – she can’t, but there’s nothing wrong with that. We just need to recognize the strengths and limitations of our own child. So I took the decision to drop CMA and just focus on conventional maths. She’s much happier now, since her pre-school teacher teaches maths in an interesting and fun way. And I’m happier too, since I need not feel guilty anymore about confusing her, knowingly, with 2 types of math concepts.

Hope the above will come in useful for parents researching on the topic of mental maths. Impt thing is – know your child well and find a teaching style and syllabus that suit him/her best. You can always try your child out to see if she can adapt and like a certain enrichment class, but know when to pull her out, especially when you recognize the child is unhappy not because she’s throwing a tantrum, and coz she really tried her best but just can’t absorb or adapt to the teaching style.

Oh by the way, CMA never called me when my gal stopped going for Term 3 classes…… until now, when it’s time to collect payment for Term 4. I was so unhappy with the whole experience that I forgot about the $50 deposit, which the teacher said I need to give 1 month notice to get it back. I said I already stopped lessons since beginning June, so it’s more than a mth, can’t that be considered as some sort of notice? And why didn’t she call me earlier to check if she’s really concerned abt how my gal is coping with her lessons? But nope, not a word of that. She asked why we’re stopping, I said not coping well, and period. She never probed further. She also curtly said I won’t be getting my deposit back unless I pay for another month’s lessons and give notice now. Which kinda reinforces the nagging thought that’s always been at the back of my mind – that they are really more concerned with money making than really teaching the children. Just my 2 cent’s worth.

[smurf]

Hi onyva,


thanks for your feedback about CMA. I was just going to register my boy for the CMA class, and is considering now.

[HappyAvon]

Dear Onyva


I do agree with you that when the child is learning the formulae, it is a tough process. My girl is now in K1 and had joined them when she was in N2. During the 1st set of formulae (good fren+2=-8+10) and bad fren(-3=-10+7), she was doing so well.. Always telling me they are so easy...However, when they start to add on other formula slowly like good brothers, bad brothers, good neighbour and bad neighbours, she was still okay. Things got worse when she was doing revision for all the formulae...Somehow she got confused with all the formulas! I find that it was so tough and with so many homeworks to do! I talked to my girl and asked her to quit but she insisted to continue...I do not want to stress her and so proceed with the centre on the withdrawal...Her teachers are very good and advised us not to give up since she had been doing it for 1 yr..According to them, all children go through this stage of familiarizing with the different formulaes but should be fine once they grasp them well...So we give CMA another chance and let her continue....Indeed, she is now doing well..fast and accurate and she is very happy with her own achievement.... I think we need to be patient and give the child more time....The child must also be interested..otherwise the process will be very dry....

[onyva]

Hi HappyAvon,


Am glad to read that it worked out for your gal. Really! I totally agree with you that patience and interest are 2 most impt things in getting a child, or anyone, to learn something.

I see that your gal's teacher was nice and helpful and encouraging. I was kinda expecting and hoping to see that coming for my girl's teacher. But nope, nothing at all. Just that one single question of why not continuing and that's it. She seemed more interested in getting (and keeping) her money and deposit. Perhaps if she had done something about it, we wouldn't have struggled so much. As it was, all she did was pull me and my hubby aside and told us to drill drill drill all the formulae into my gal. None of that talk about the kid needing time to familiarise, adapt before seeing results. She seemed more concerned about keeping her class \"up to standard\". You know, last time back in school (my school at least), class teachers \"counsel\" kids faring badly in certain subjects to drop that subject so as not to pull down the class average. I get that feeling from her. No warmth, no passion as a teacher. It just made the whole experience worse. It's as if it's just me and my kid battling the CMA maths alone.

Perhaps other centres have better teachers and I've always believed good teachers make a whole lot of difference. But i didn't switch her to another centre coz ultimately, i realised that my gal will be fine learning just the conventional maths. Maybe she may be slower in getting the answers right, since she doesn't have mental maths to quicken the process or double check, but it's more impt to me that she understands the concepts, than being able to mental calculate fast. Also, frankly, the whole experience spooked me and my gal, esp the drilling and confusion part, so I didn't wanna go thru it again, particularly when it's not totally essential that she masters the CMA maths.

[HappyAvon]

onyva:

Hi HappyAvon,


Am glad to read that it worked out for your gal. Really! I totally agree with you that patience and interest are 2 most impt things in getting a child, or anyone, to learn something.

I see that your gal's teacher was nice and helpful and encouraging. I was kinda expecting and hoping to see that coming for my girl's teacher. But nope, nothing at all. Just that one single question of why not continuing and that's it. She seemed more interested in getting (and keeping) her money and deposit. Perhaps if she had done something about it, we wouldn't have struggled so much. As it was, all she did was pull me and my hubby aside and told us to drill drill drill all the formulae into my gal. None of that talk about the kid needing time to familiarise, adapt before seeing results. She seemed more concerned about keeping her class \"up to standard\". You know, last time back in school (my school at least), class teachers \"counsel\" kids faring badly in certain subjects to drop that subject so as not to pull down the class average. I get that feeling from her. No warmth, no passion as a teacher. It just made the whole experience worse. It's as if it's just me and my kid battling the CMA maths alone.

Perhaps other centres have better teachers and I've always believed good teachers make a whole lot of difference. But i didn't switch her to another centre coz ultimately, i realised that my gal will be fine learning just the conventional maths. Maybe she may be slower in getting the answers right, since she doesn't have mental maths to quicken the process or double check, but it's more impt to me that she understands the concepts, than being able to mental calculate fast. Also, frankly, the whole experience spooked me and my gal, esp the drilling and confusion part, so I didn't wanna go thru it again, particularly when it's not totally essential that she masters the CMA maths.

Hi Onyva, the teacher you mentioned sounds no good at all...For my girl, her teacher is very understanding and patient....she had never asked us to drill the formulae into our gal.. My gal just had the usual homework. In the past, I was required to sit beside her to double check her work and do the explanation if necessary. This is no longer required now...She will do the homework by herself since she has become more confident... As our gal is now in K1, we just want her to hv more exposure and CMA is just to stimulate both sides of the brain..I feel that CMA does help her in a way...She is able to grasp new concept easily and it does helps in improving concentration skills...

I had been through what you went through previously and I fully understand the process.....We too may had quit if the teachers did not encouraged us to hold on to it....

[Happybirdks]

Hi Onyva


I am about to sign my k1, p1 and p4 for cma, but after reading your article, I am really reconsidering now.

I didn’t realise there are so many formulas to remember! Like the good friends, good neighbours, good brothers stuff! My god! Don’t these complicated maths!!! I mean, in the first place, it is not an easy subject, by introducing all these stuff kind of make it worse, doesn’t it?

Parents with kids who have gone through these, could you kindly share?

Btw, Onyva, perhaps MPM may be more suitable for your gal? That is another option I am considering, but it is so expensive.

[Pen88n]

My gal has gone thru’ CMA and she is ok with learning the formula. ACtually, CMA has made it much easier for the kids than others - my DS went thru’ another system and that is really memorising formula.


For CMA, they explain it in the form of friends, siblings and neighbours (good and bad) and with the right fingering, it is quite easy. I tried teaching my gal with the memorising, and she was totally lost. I later learnt from the CMA teacher and when I went thru’ with my gal again using how they had explained, she grasped it immediately and could proceed quickly.

Having said that, must be very hands-on when kid start leanring CMA. Parents involvement will determine kid’s interest and progress.

[onyva]

Hi Happybirdks,


Indeed I found them confusing. As in, I understand what they are trying to teach, but I thought why need so many “frens, siblings, neighbours” stuff? I know it’s a way to make it easier for the child to remember, instead of rote learning. But I also realize they need all these formulas chiefly because of how the abacus work. You need some “shortcuts” or formulae before you can add the beads up correctly. I think these shortcuts/formulae are why one can mental calculate quicker than simply using fingers.

For me, the main reason for enrolling my gal in CMA is really to get her more comfortable with numbers, and also to learn how to add/subtract (I wasn’t even thinking any much further than that, coz at that time, she was really not good at even simple addition stuff). But for a child who’s already weak in basic normal maths concepts, the CMA formulae just made it worse, IMHO. For my gal, she could grasp the best fren concept (i.e. frens of no. 10), coz it’s similar to the number bonds taught in her pre-school – which 2 numbers between 1 to 9 add up to ten. This she could grasp, the number bonds, but when they use it for supposedly simple sums like 9 + 1, that’s where the problem sets in. My gal could do it on the abacus: + 9 – 9 + 10. But when I asked her to do it without the abacus, just simply what’s 9 + 1 using fingers, she struggled. She totally lost the basic concept of simply adding 1 to 9. She wanted to use her hands to do + 9 – 9 + 10 but when I stopped her, she started to picture the abacus mentally in her mind, did the abacus way, and got the answer. At that time, I was quite happy. Like, hey, this is what mental maths is all about. Maybe she doesn’t do it the conventional way, but as long as the answer’s right.

But over time, as the numbers got bigger and more formulae were introduced at CMA, and at the same time, the pre-school is teaching more advanced stuff like count in 2s, 4s, 10s, using tens & ones to do sums like 10 + 14 (add the ones first then add the tens), she really got lost and we struggled. When I managed to get her on track with CMA concepts, she lost it with the pre-school maths, and her teacher feedback to me she’s not doing well. When I work with her to get back on track with pre-school maths concepts, she lost it with CMA stuff. And due to the massive amt of CMA homework, I had had to spend more time on CMA work, so she got nowhere with pre-school maths.

In the end, as I researched more and spoke with frens with kids in pri school, I decided I have to stop CMA to stop this whole confusion. Pri school maths is really about English comprehension and modeling. They ask questions like “what is 1 lesser than 5?”, “what is the number before / after 14?” and “what is the number just before / just after 14?” For the latter 2 qns, you really need to understand what is the meaning of “before” (which can mean any number before 14) vs “just before” (answer can only be 13). As you can see, no amount of abacus or mental maths can help if the child doesn’t even understand the question. And even after understanding, they have to do workings, like 1 lesser than 5, draw 5 boxes and cross one 1. I dunno how they teach this 1 minus 5 in CMA, I stopped the classes at the “best fren” formulae, never went on to neighbours and siblings, good or bad. Besides, I see no point in these formulae anymore. All these formulae, to me, are just to calculate something which can easily be done on a calculator. And l agree with Pen88n – CMA needs a lot of parents’ involvement at the starting stage. I had lost confidence in the CMA concepts and could not see myself teaching my gal stuff which I have no trust in.

Like I said, my objective of enrolling my gal in CMA was to help her in adding and subtraction. It wasn’t for her to be able to help me mental calculate my basket of groceries in under a minute, or tell me 123+234+345+456 = what in 5 secs flat without using calculator/abacus. So I stopped her CMA classes and decided to work with her myself at home, and give any sort of maths enrichment classes a miss. I bought workbooks targeted at her level from popular, and worked with her from scratch to get the basics right. I’ve always been doing this since before, and during, her CMA classes, but she kept struggling due to the confusion. Now, devoid of the confusion, she’s coping well with the normal maths concepts. I’m thankful that her English comprehension is good, so she can read and understand the qns. Now it’s just helping her with the concepts, and the exercise books offer various topics – odd/even nos, measurement in length, weight, etc, and they introduce the modeling concept. All these – not taught in CMA.

But I understand that CMA has worked out well for some kids. So I’m not disputing their teaching method – it’s more of what’s suited for your child. I feel that if your child has a good grasp of basic math concepts, CMA will help enhance it further. But if not, it may cause confusion. Also, I truly think my gal’s CMA teacher is not that good. She explained the best-fren concept to me, but after that, just flipped to the back page of the workbook with all the formulaes and said pls get your girl to memorise all these. She didn’t manage to get me interested in it at all. So I wonder how she gets the kids interested.

[Happybirdks]

Hi Onyva


thanks for your detailed input!

I am glad that your gal and you have came to make a good decision and have pick up the maths skills again.

I agree that no matter what system or enrichment centre one send the kids to, it is still ultimately whether the kid can adapt to the method. An enrichment centre may be so great so great to most, but there are bound to be some who just don't get it. No point spending money and ended up frustrated instead. Anyway, a lot of maths whiz don't go through abacus wah

As for me, I am still considering. Maybe yes, maybe no, I'll think about it this week

Anyway, I notice something funny when I brought my boy to the centre to take a look last week. I watch their tv which features all their whiz kids on local variety shows, as well as the newspaper article and some of the interviews. Seems that almost all those featured are wearing specs! I can't help but wonder has it got to do with the abacus, because it is so small. Imagine hunching over the small beads to count count count Why don't they have bigger abacus instead???? :?

[Happybirdks]

Hi Onyva


thanks for your detailed input!

I am glad that your gal and you have came to make a good decision and have pick up the maths skills again.

I agree that no matter what system or enrichment centre one send the kids to, it is still ultimately whether the kid can adapt to the method. An enrichment centre may be so great so great to most, but there are bound to be some who just don't get it. No point spending money and ended up frustrated instead. Anyway, a lot of maths whiz don't go through abacus wah

As for me, I am still considering. Maybe yes, maybe no, I'll think about it this week

Anyway, I notice something funny when I brought my boy to the centre to take a look last week. I watch their tv which features all their whiz kids on local variety shows, as well as the newspaper article and some of the interviews. Seems that almost all those featured are wearing specs! I can't help but wonder has it got to do with the abacus, because it is so small. Imagine hunching over the small beads to count count count Why don't they have bigger abacus instead???? :?