Teachers' Violence

[rains]

[quote="markfch]After your many deductions, may I ask how would a teacher calling his/her students ‘stupid idiots’ & ‘sickening class’ help to improve the situation?[/quote]


It raises my awareness of how trying the class is. It tells me how teachers hate to step into this class, and if anything happens, I know that part of the responsibility lies with the kids.

At home, with the knowledge that the teachers scold them so harshly, I educate my kid on why the teachers would come to this. I get to make my kid see the teachers’ point of view and that a teacher would never use such harsh words unless he or she is pushed to the limit.

In class, by scolding the kids like that, it makes them realise that they are not as loveable as they think they are. A time for reality check for them.

[rains]

DesertWind:

You have the right to beat your own child but not any teacher.


Unless it is the disciplinary master then the case is different. I remembered in my primary school some boys were caned on stage. And that is after full explanation was given by discplinary master during morning assembly to all students and teachers. I believe in such instances done properly it even gave \"face\" to the boys because everybody know and they themselves know what they have done wrong to be disciplined. (Dunno nowadays still like this or not?).

As a parent, if my boy has done so wrong that deserves a public caning in school, I have nothing to say. But not individual teachers hitting/throw chalk/slap textbooks on young children in class, no matter how angry.

Also last time teachers sent boys to stand outside the class-room with they pants DOWN! My god. I believe if the discipline master had caned them on stage, it may be less damaging to their young egos than making them do such a shaming act!
:x

Correct! Teachers got no right, no power, no authority. Only sh*t. Parents can beat their own kids, but like the parents in this thread, most parents do not beat their kids, no matter how naughty they are. I know of this kid who was very destructive - he scolded vulgarities, fight with other kids, went around stabbing others with a pencil, and created havoc for every teacher who had him. The mother was so defensive that you simply couldn't talk to her at all. She would scold the teachers for being biased against him and victimising him. If he got into trouble, he must have been provoked. The teachers were all unfair towards him, never listened to his side of the story (when in fact, the kid would lie to get away with his crimes). The witnesses also just wanted to victimise him. When been informed that the school may take disciplinary action towards the child, the parents said what you parents said,\"Only us can beat the child. No other people can beat my child!\"

What kinda generation are we raising?

Today's kids got too much face already, till they cannot stand people scolding them one bit. Public caning is extinct already. You know how fragile our kids are. They get traumatised for the rest of their lives if they get caned on stage. Children who witness the caning will also be so frightened they cannot come to school for weeks.

I heard that there is still caning, but in the principal's office, done very privately, so that it does not cause the kid to be affected adversely for the rest of their lives. I am not sure if the school's counsellor is also in the office so that he or she can provide counselling after the caning, in case the kid still feel very traumatised by the caning.

But one thing I agree with most people: the education system of yesteryears was an utter failure. Just look at what and how the parents today teach their kids.

[janet88]

Parents are educated…those who can afford will send their kids for tuition for all the subjects.


I still remember those days when caning was done by the principal on stage. Yes, kids are naughty esp now…but no matter what, the teacher cannot discipline the child physically. You can make him/her stay back during recess or after school.

[rains]

janet_lee88:

Parents are educated...those who can afford will send their kids for tuition for all the subjects.


I still remember those days when caning was done by the principal on stage. Yes, kids are naughty esp now...but no matter what, the teacher cannot discipline the child physically. You can make him/her stay back during recess or after school.

Hi Janet,

That's why I said parents ought to be teachers - to know what teachers need to do for their free periods. If you make the kids stay back, you better make sure you remember to dismiss the kids after the stated time while you are multi-tasking on some other matters.

And do you know that teachers get complained by parents when they make kids stay back during recess or after school? And kids nowadays are not afraid to stay back - (1) their parents refuse to let the teachers make the kids stay back; (2) the kids have the 'stay, stay lor. Big deal.' mentality.

I know of a teacher who got the child to stay back to help him in his work. And he was complained by the parent for making the child stay back. Of course he was upset. He told me then he'll let the child go. Fail also his own business.

I think no matter how many times I tell the parents here that 'teachers have no power', they won't be able to understand the extent of powerlessness, unless they go and be teachers themselves.

[janet88]

Parents will never understand the stress of being a teacher now. A friend who’s a teacher told us - parents chase after teachers in primary school, but it’s the reverse in secondary school.


I give son’s teachers free hand to make him stay back after school or during recess if he talks or doesn’t complete his homework.

Many teachers are seeing psychiatrists bcos of the pressure from their HODs. It’s very tough being a teacher, worse in popular schools (according to a friend).

[markfch]

rains:

At home, with the knowledge that the teachers scold them so harshly, I educate my kid on why the teachers would come to this. I get to make my kid see the teachers' point of view and that a teacher would never use such harsh words unless he or she is pushed to the limit.

In class, by scolding the kids like that, it makes them realise that they are not as loveable as they think they are. A time for reality check for them.

I think we need to dissect the problem into 2 separate issues here.

a) The challenges our educators faced are much more complex compared to the past. With the connectivity of the Net, it only takes a dissatisfied parent to cast a bad light on all the educators of a sch. And with the emphasis on customer satisfaction and increase in parents' education level, things are only going to get tougher.

b) How do we expect our educators to rise to these new challenges? In other words, do we expect them to respond (positively) to these challenges or do we expect them to react (negatively) to them?

For pt a), I totally agree with you that on average, the challenges faced by teachers & educators are much tougher nowadays. However one impt pt to note is that this is also true for most of the other white collar jobs. So while I'm not denying that being a teacher is tough, I can also safely say that leaving the teaching profession and working in the private sector is not going to be a bed of roses too. Granted, students are pushing the boundaries more than ever. And teachers are being constrainted in the ways to deal with this, especially with the power of dishing out corporeal punishment arbitrarily being taken away from them.

I think pt b) is where our opinions diverge. When faced with these new challenges, do we expect our teachers to respond or react. In responding, what I mean is like what vk2010 mentioned, instead of screaming his head off (and banging his head into a brick wall in the process), he chose another tact. He managed to reason and touch base with his ex-students with notable success. In reacting, he could just as well throw some dusters at the most irritating (or most unthreatening) student to vent his frustration, or simply label his ex-students as no hopers of society. But my qn is what good would that achieve eventually? The only outcome I can think of is that it wrongly teaches those students that it is acceptable to physically or verbally abuse people who are of a lower society strata or physically weaker than you. What good would that do? To me that is taking the easy way out.

So while I agree totally with you that our kids are getting more difficult and stressful to educate compared to the past, you seem to gravitate towards the other side preferring to accept w/o qn that if a teacher verbally abuses a class, there must be a perfectly valid reason and entitlement to do so. Is screaming & violence the best way forward? That's when we can't concur.

[rains]

markfch:

I think pt b) is where our opinions diverge. When faced with these new challenges, do we expect our teachers to respond or react. In responding, what I mean is like what vk2010 mentioned, instead of screaming his head off (and banging his head into a brick wall in the process), he chose another tact. He managed to reason and touch base with his ex-students with notable success. In reacting, he could just as well throw some dusters at the most irritating (or most unthreatening) student to vent his frustration, or simply label his ex-students as no hopers of society. But my qn is what good would that achieve eventually? The only outcome I can think of is that it wrongly teaches those students that it is acceptable to physically or verbally abuse people who are of a lower society strata or physically weaker than you. What good would that do? To me that is taking the easy way out.

So while I agree totally with you that our kids are getting more difficult and stressful to educate compared to the past, you seem to gravitate towards the other side preferring to accept w/o qn that if a teacher verbally abuses a class, there must be a perfectly valid reason and entitlement to do so. Is screaming & violence the best way forward? That's when we can't concur.

I didn't intend my posts to talk about whether the teacher was justified in dishing out abuses. I read the first few pages of this thread and feel that parents are too protective, without reflecting on what caused the outburst. They just take the article (which happens to be just the parent's side of the story) as it is. This is where I feel contrary about.

I was thinking more about the general trend of protective parents rather than just this thread alone when I posted. I remember a friend who was passionate about teaching resigned a few years ago becos she hit out at a boy who was a constant menace in the classroom. It just makes me feel that it doesn't pay to put in too much effort for the kids these days.

I think teachers are a suppressed lot nowadays ie. abused by students but can't do anything about it, want to speak up but warned not to, dissatisfied with the job yet spent too long in the line to switch etc, and that's part of the reason for the occasional outbursts that appear on papers.

[DesertWind]

It is tough to be a teacher in school nowadays. But if teachers are willing to come out and become tuition teachers, private GEP teachers, set up pre-schools, set up tuition agencies etc. Wah Lau! The opportunity has never been better! Just take a look at the newspapers - lots of very well-paid teachers!


Ke..ke...ke..I have an ex-colleague who was working in finance sector. Thought will be much better to be a teacher ie. with all those school holidays etc. Went into the system, serve her bond period and after that came back out again to work in a govt. stat. board relating to her old job. She said too stressed during term time with the cirriculum to cover. And we are not even talking about difficult kids!

Be a teacher? (Shudder....) No thanks, not even with the power to physically attack the kids!

[markfch]

rains:

I didn't intend my posts to talk about whether the teacher was justified in dishing out abuses. I read the first few pages of this thread and feel that parents are too protective, without reflecting on what caused the outburst. They just take the article (which happens to be just the parent's side of the story) as it is. This is where I feel contrary about.

I was thinking more about the general trend of protective parents rather than just this thread alone when I posted. I remember a friend who was passionate about teaching resigned a few years ago becos she hit out at a boy who was a constant menace in the classroom. It just makes me feel that it doesn't pay to put in too much effort for the kids these days.

I think teachers are a suppressed lot nowadays ie. abused by students but can't do anything about it, want to speak up but warned not to, dissatisfied with the job yet spent too long in the line to switch etc, and that's part of the reason for the occasional outbursts that appear on papers.

Thanks for the clarification, now I understand your pt of view better :celebrate:.

From my long post, I realised something about myself, that I'm quite passionate about this topic :lol:

[janet88]

DesertWind:

I have an ex-colleague who was working in finance sector. Thought will be much better to be a teacher ie. with all those school holidays etc. Went into the system, serve her bond period and after that came back out again to work in a govt. stat. board relating to her old job. She said too stressed during term time with the cirriculum to cover. And we are not even talking about difficult kids!

Be a teacher? No thanks, not even with the power to physically attack the kids!

My son's former tutor is a teacher...she had to bring her class to the swimming pool after school for CCA and she was almost due to give birth. Teachers have more annual leave than those in MNC but have no chance to utilize annual leave.
A friend who is a teacher serving her bond chose to do so in a not popular school She and other Chinese teachers are always picked on by the HOD.