The Return Of The HAZE.....

[verykiasu2010]

qms:

limlim:

China also got farmers, but never heard of haze pollution from forest clearing or things like that ( althou there are reports chemical pollutions from factories ).

Because pollution from other sources is so much more serious that they regard pollution from forest clearing as a bliss? :scratchhead:

or, chemical pollution so bad that tree and forest do not grow any more...so slash and burn to clear farm land no longer possible

actually, farms land in china has been tilled for many many centuries liao....plus some were even supporting 3 harvests a year.....where can chance for weeds to grow into a forest ....lol

[auntieM]

So relieve.. the weather has been bearable thanks to the rain last couple of days...



:offtopic:The new Angry Birds Halloween HD very challenging too!
I am playing Cut The Rope but 'hard' leh...frustrating rather

[limlim]

Trapwithin:

:offtopic: limlim is your avator from the iPhone game - Cut the Rope?

Yup

[limlim]

qms:

limlim:

China also got farmers, but never heard of haze pollution from forest clearing or things like that ( althou there are reports chemical pollutions from factories ).

Because pollution from other sources is so much more serious that they regard pollution from forest clearing as a bliss? :scratchhead:

The factories case is caused by a few individuals.. At least, the authorities will act against such inconsiderate acts.

forest burning is more like done by common folks. What I'm saying is that the commons folk are not so sicko like the indo, and their govt just keep a closed eye.

[Way2GO]

limlim:

forest burning is more like done by common folks. What I'm saying is that the commons folk are not so sicko like the indo, and their govt just keep a closed eye.

Can't really blame the small farmers who are only trying to feed their families a little better.
They slash n burn to clear the forests for land to cultivate more palm oil trees.
Palm oil is a more lucrative crop and it is in demand.
Slash and burn is the cheapest method they know how.

Can't also say the Indon gahmen completely keep a closed eye.
There is a no-burn policy in place but the problem is one of enforcement.

Which leads back to this question:

Way2GO:

Indonesian Foreign Minister, Dr. Marty Natalegawa said, \"This so-called haze situation is a classic case or example of a challenge that is transboundary in nature that cannot be solved simply by one country.\"

What do you make of this statement?

[vlim]

auntieM:

So relieve.. the weather has been bearable thanks to the rain last couple of days...



:offtopic:The new Angry Birds Halloween HD very challenging too!
I am playing Cut The Rope but 'hard' leh...frustrating rather

ya ..i played once..just before sleeping..and it made me can't sleep..heart pumping so fast...

[Way2GO]

Last week, Singapore and Malaysia offered Indonesia assistance to fight the raging forest fires.

Indonesia activated extra 300+ firefighters but never call on these two countries firefighters to help despite that statement.

Palm oil is in demand.
Big palm oil companies ‘instigate’ those poor small farmers to clear more land for palm oil cultivation to meet rising demand since they cannot be seen to do so themselves.
Indon gahmen support big business.
So who is at fault?

Another part of the answer lies in this piece of news:
Norway offers US$ 1 billion climate deal to Indonesia to ban deforestation of natural forests and Norway asks other rich nations to do likewise.

Indonesia is resource rich itself. It can afford to fund its own programs.
It can learnt from other nations about sustainable cultivation and preservation of natural forests.
But would it? Not presently.
So until it can get its act together, don’t hold your breath.
The haze will be an annual affair - it is only a matter of degree.

[limlim]

Way2GO:

Can't really blame the small farmers who are only trying to feed their families a little better.
They slash n burn to clear the forests for land to cultivate more palm oil trees.
Palm oil is a more lucrative crop and it is in demand.
Slash and burn is the cheapest method they know how.

Can't also say the Indon gahmen completely keep a closed eye.
There is a no-burn policy in place but the problem is one of enforcement.

Something to this effect would be effective..

atrecord:

if china farmers burn forest, the police will burn them without trial :lol:

unlike those useless indons...

Anyway, if there is no-burn policy, then the farmer can always explore other means. This boils down to 1 reason only. Profit, or maximize income at the expense of others.

If you know that selling firearms is illegal in SG, you should explore other trades, even if it is more profitable to sell firearms. Same logic.

if the indo govt is serious about enforcing a no-burn policy, surely there'll be a way to do it. The problem is that they're only paying lip-service to other countries so affected by the haze. Since when has any been any reports of farmers kena trial for burning forest?

To enforce is very very simple. Just implement a law that it is illegal to carny out any farming on burnt land. Anyone caught doing so will be prosecuted. If burnt land cannot use, there'll be no reason to burn. if they use, it is very easy to catch. Cannot say the few hectares of crop nobody own right?

[limlim]

Way2GO:

Indonesian Foreign Minister, Dr. Marty Natalegawa said, \"This so-called haze situation is a classic case or example of a challenge that is transboundary in nature that cannot be solved simply by one country.\"


What do you make of this statement?

Way2GO:

Last week, Singapore and Malaysia offered Indonesia assistance to fight the raging forest fires.
Indonesia activated extra 300+ firefighters but never call on these two countries firefighters to help despite that statement.

The second quote clearly shows that the indo govt is only capable of BS.

Say it's \" that cannot be solved simply by one country\", fine, but then \"never call on these two countries firefighters to help despite that statement\"

What BS are they talking.. say needs external help, but pple offer help they never use.

This only shows that they're totally not interested in fighting the fires.

[Way2GO]

limlim:

Something to this effect would be effective..

atrecord:

if china farmers burn forest, the police will burn them without trial :lol:
unlike those useless indons...

You think so?
Look at the land area of Sumatra and Kalimantan.
Can the central gahmen put enuf police on the ground to cover every acre?
There r also local by-laws that allow clearing of land by burning as they have done so for generations.
If a neighbour starts a fire that spreads to adjacent land,
can the police pinpoint the culprit if nobody breaths a word?
It is difficult to enforce the no burning policy,
but that doesn't mean it cannot be done if there is sufficient political will.

limlim:

Anyway, if there is no-burn policy, then the farmer can always explore other means. This boils down to 1 reason only. Profit, or maximize income at the expense of others.

In two words: big business n $$money.

limlim:

If you know that selling firearms is illegal in SG, you should explore other trades, even if it is more profitable to sell firearms. Same logic.

Singapore logic does not apply to Indonesia way of doing things.

limlim:

if the indo govt is serious about enforcing a no-burn policy, surely there'll be a way to do it. The problem is that they're only paying lip-service to other countries so affected by the haze. Since when has any been any reports of farmers kena trial for burning forest?

To enforce is very very simple. Just implement a law that it is illegal to carny out any farming on burnt land. Anyone caught doing so will be prosecuted. If burnt land cannot use, there'll be no reason to burn. if they use, it is very easy to catch. Cannot say the few hectares of crop nobody own right?

Look at Indon response. Indon local official said it's only one week of burning why you all make so much noise. Dr Marty said it needs a transnational solution yet don't take up the offers of assistance by Singapore and Malaysia to fight the fires. This can only mean one of 2 things:
1) national pride or
2) let it burn (we will extinguish the fires at our own pace because we need land for more palm oil cultivation).

And Norway is throwing in US$1 billion into the deal to ban deforestation.
This is a bit like North Korea's nuclear posture where it threatens the North East Asian countries with nuclear war to extract economic aid.

It's big business and $$money. Is there a greater incentive to change?