Different religion
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jedamum:
Parents are rejecting that because first, they believe they have the experience and expertise to know what's good for their kid (may or may not be true), and second, they have a prior expectation of what kind of spouse their kid should have.
parents not acknowledging their kid's future partner due to difference in religion may not only be mainly a religious issue. if all parents are supposed to give 'unconditional love', why are there parents rejecting their kid's future partner based on:-
- same gender
- different race
- one is a single parent
- great difference in age
- difference in social background
etc etc etc.
For many parents, they take it upon themselves to direct their child towards a path of what they think is happiness (as defined for them, and by inference, for him too) every step along the way. Inference may be right or wrong.
Sometimes you can't fault the inference because they are general truths (Eating more vegetables and salad is good for you), but if it is about personal choices like career, it can be frequently wrong IF the parent and child have very different characters. A domineering parent may like her daughter to be a manager/director because the best thing in the world to her is to be in charge, but the mild-mannered service-oriented daughter may choose to be a nurse, or be in hospitality.
Parents also fear their child may make a mistake and/or have a tough time in life, because given such a situation themselves, they feel they will have a tough time in life.
Also, usually parents of that age where kids are grown up do not really want to move mountains to adapt to and accommodate strange situations (DIL being of a different race, religion, language etc). They rather mountains be moved to accommodate them (\"Why can't you just listen to me this time around, like you used to when you're 7\")
Parents need to keep a balance between
1) wanting their kid to be happy, and looking at things from his point of view
2) wanting their kid to make them happy -
insider:
Sounds like both mother and son have strong-willed and intelligent personalities, and are those type that do not take to different advice kindly.Met up with an old gang of classmates over the weekend.
Have this lecturer classmate with an 18 years old son in a top JC. Son attends church since young with whole family.
He started dating a Muslim girl. My classmate bit her tongue and kept quiet coz his A levels exams were coming.
Once exams over, classmate tried to reason with him that she doesn't allow him to date someone of a different faith.
Son insists and carries on dating.
Mother and son in cold war.
Classmate gave him the ultimum of break off or she will not give him anymore pocket money.
Son continues.
Classmate threatened to disown him.
Son left home and til now refuses to come home.
Classmate turns to cell group for help and cell group advised to talk to the son slowly.
Classmate just cannot accept. She said \"I dont care about the colour of the skin and as long as his girlfriend can be converted into a Christian, I can accept her; else over my death bed.\"
Strong statement but internal must be bleeding badly.
I fail to see why need to take it so hard coz it's just dating and not say like going to get married. Even if it is marriage, whose marriage it is? Can't we just love kids unconditionally? Son's current thinking most likely to be \"I love her doesnt mean I don't love you and I don't love God. Why can't I have both do you have to force me to choose?\"
Mummy's thinking, \"I love you very much and I only want you to be on the right path. Mummy is older than you and can see further than you. Listen to me and follow my direction and you will have happiness later in life.\"
Being in a top JC, classmate just cannot let go of her intelligent son and trust that he will make the right decision eventually, whatever that decision maybe. If her God gives her son a test, there must be a strong reason behind it...
The words in bold are probably said in the heat of the moment.
Your friend certainly doesn't want her son and his gf becoming Christians eventually, but are totally estranged from her. That can happen because they feel too hurt.
Being a Christian is about your OWN personal relationship with God, whether you're a leper or a saint, a pastor or a prisoner, and its not about holding/not holding joss sticks nor is it really about going to church every Sunday rain or shine. Nor should one worry too much about other people's personal relationships with God because everyone has his own path to that.
Sure, going to church every Sunday does give you a better chance to improve your own relationship with God, and also to be exposed to good fellowship who may inspire you to learn and love and give. But if one hangs around in church aimlessly, or learns to despise other people just because they are not Christians, or mixes with fellowship that only compares notes with one another about material stuff, or engage in trivial gossip, then one might as well not do so.
The best way to convince others of the love of Jesus Christ is to be a mini-Christ. To show the love, and not to tell others about it, is the best way. -
qizai:
Err... I know of someone who is in a similar dispute.
Sounds like both mother and son have strong-willed and intelligent personalities, and are those type that do not take to different advice kindly.insider:
Met up with an old gang of classmates over the weekend.
Have this lecturer classmate with an 18 years old son in a top JC. Son attends church since young with whole family.
He started dating a Muslim girl. My classmate bit her tongue and kept quiet coz his A levels exams were coming.
Once exams over, classmate tried to reason with him that she doesn't allow him to date someone of a different faith.
Son insists and carries on dating.
Mother and son in cold war.
Classmate gave him the ultimum of break off or she will not give him anymore pocket money.
Son continues.
Classmate threatened to disown him.
Son left home and til now refuses to come home.
Classmate turns to cell group for help and cell group advised to talk to the son slowly.
Classmate just cannot accept. She said \"I dont care about the colour of the skin and as long as his girlfriend can be converted into a Christian, I can accept her; else over my death bed.\"
Strong statement but internal must be bleeding badly.
I fail to see why need to take it so hard coz it's just dating and not say like going to get married. Even if it is marriage, whose marriage it is? Can't we just love kids unconditionally? Son's current thinking most likely to be \"I love her doesnt mean I don't love you and I don't love God. Why can't I have both do you have to force me to choose?\"
Mummy's thinking, \"I love you very much and I only want you to be on the right path. Mummy is older than you and can see further than you. Listen to me and follow my direction and you will have happiness later in life.\"
Being in a top JC, classmate just cannot let go of her intelligent son and trust that he will make the right decision eventually, whatever that decision maybe. If her God gives her son a test, there must be a strong reason behind it...
The words in bold are probably said in the heat of the moment.
Your friend certainly doesn't want her son and his gf becoming Christians eventually, but are totally estranged from her. That can happen because they feel too hurt.
Being a Christian is about your OWN personal relationship with God, whether you're a leper or a saint, a pastor or a prisoner, and its not about holding/not holding joss sticks nor is it really about going to church every Sunday rain or shine. Nor should one worry too much about other people's personal relationships with God because everyone has his own path to that.
Sure, going to church every Sunday does give you a better chance to improve your own relationship with God, and also to be exposed to good fellowship who may inspire you to learn and love and give. But if one hangs around in church aimlessly, or learns to despise other people just because they are not Christians, or mixes with fellowship that only compares notes with one another about material stuff, or engage in trivial gossip, then one might as well not do so.
The best way to convince others of the love of Jesus Christ is to be a mini-Christ. To show the love, and not to tell others about it, is the best way.
But, key difference is that the mother (christian) is against the muslim other half but ok with gals from other religions.
Reason being:
Marrying a muslim gal means you have to reject your God, reject your Chinese name (and henceforth identify) and if it is a Malay Msian, it is akin to losing your son/ daughter forever (they have to convert to marry).
If it is other religion (other than muslim), there will not be the above 'rejections\".
As such, i can totally understand where the mother is coming from. Im not saying that this is rite or wrong, but, if your son/ daughter is going to fully reject his/ her identify (akin to cutting off his ties with you), i think maybe we would have the same reaction??
Dunno - but i do wonder sometimes what will i do if i encounter such a situation later in life.
Just my 2 cents - apologies if anyone feels offended. -
I was raised a catholic, fell in love with a muslim and converted for the sake of the marriage… I think that qualifies as a death penalty in pakistan :x We got married in a catholic church and a mosque so both parents would be happy though in essence I did the catholic wedding out of respect for my mother… she really didnt care in the end what the religion was so long as we were both happy - her parents were adament that I must be a muslim though my wife really wasnt that concerned. The main thing however is that I knew my wifes expectations and beliefs and she knew mine…
At that time I believed in some ultimate presence though it has since evolved into atheism in which she has joined me… I could never have married someone who believes in a different belief system from me - so if I now met anyone religious who demanded an observance of god, I wouldnt be attracted to them. If you are in the early stages of a relationship and cant agree its probably better to walk away - if you both believe in different manifestations of the same fairy tale then once the chemical reactions subside, you will be even more resentful when you start hating his annoying habits and his stupid beliefs and vice versa. -
just my 2 cents… if the religion cannot be converted to another, then please educate your children while they are young of this requirement. It’s easier to brainwash them when they are 6yo than when they are 16yo. My mom always told me we could not be converted since I was a kid.
So when I was 19yo, and a nice Chinese-Malay boy told me he liked me, I told him frankly it was just not possible coz I can never be a Muslim. We never went out at all. I am not very religious as a person, but it was in my knowledge not to go against the tenets of my religion at the very least. Why generate additional headaches for everyone? A marriage is not just between 2 people. It is a marriage of 2 families.
My Christian fren was forced to break up with her Catholic bf as her dad was super religious and insisted she married someone from her own Christian church. She eventually married a guy from the same Christian denomination but from another church and still encounters problems (coz it’s not the SAME church!) -
well, let me try to give my own take on this. i may eventually have to face this issue myself when dd grows up.
as christians, we are taught not to be "unequally yolked" with non-believers for the simple reason that we ourselves may very well be swayed from our faith. hence personally, we’ve been there before and understand the inner struggles of a christian who knows he/she should marry someone of similar faith and to be ready not to ever marry if he/she never finds a suitable one.
there are christians who choose to marry non-believers, some marriages turned out ok ie. the non-believer is ok to come to church but whether he/she becomes a christian is another issue. whatever choice the christian makes, he/she will have to bear the consequences - good or bad. as fellow brothers or sisters, we can only pray for them.
i do not know at what age i will have to start teaching my dd abt this. i guess it will be at an age when she’s mature enough. yes, the teachings will be done but ultimately, the choice is hers to make and dh and i can only pray for her to make wise decisions under the guidance of our Lord. even if she were to make a decision that is not aligned with our beliefs, will i be able to embrace that decision? i honestly do not know but i do pray that my love for her will keep my doors open to her as well as her loved ones always. -
insider:
This is probably the wrong thread to discuss this, but I think the majority of rebellious teenagers out there do not think of it as revenge, but rather as trying to assert their independence, and wanting to feel good about it.
Usually these kids / adults have suppressed themselves in many ways when they were young and subconsciously, they want to take 'revenge'. These thoughts are usually non-intentional but they are manifested out to hurt parents to release the suppressed self and thereby trying to be independent from parental control to form true self-identity and be separate from parents (a psychological need).
When overly-controlled kids do not take 'revenge' against their parents when they grow up, the next ones who will suffer maybe the spouse / kids. When these kids 'torture' their own family (can be also under the pretext of 'love' too), these families cannot be happy and may break up and these happenings also will hurt the original set of parents at the end.
As Stephen Covey put it, people, especially teenagers, need emotional air. When they don't have it, they struggle for it, just like people struggle for physical air when they are denied it.
Having emotional air means being listened to, being respected for their feelings and choices, even though their choices may not be the best amongst others.
For example, a son wants to go with his friends to a not-so-reputable disco.
Situation 1
Son : Mum, I want to go to the disco on Friday night, with my friends.
Mum: Why do you want to go those places? Don't you know that unsavory people hanged out there all the time? It's better to spend time resting, so that you can practise your piano pieces on Saturday morning, before we visit your Grandma in the evening. Otherwise, you will complain you've no time to practise, and then you'll never get your Grade 8 before your A Levels, and you won't achieve the goals you've set for yourself...
Son : (silence)
Situation 2
Son : Mum, I want to go to the disco on Friday night, with my friends.
Mum : You're interested to go to the disco, because your friends are going?
Son : Yeah, most of the guys in my class hanged out there at least once before. I felt like a noob when they talked about it, and I don't want to be left out.
Mum : I can understand that you don't want to feel left out. Nobody likes to feel left out.
Son : Yeah..
Mum : I'm sure you know about my reservations.
Son : Yeah, I know you feel its unwise to hang out there, because you think there're unsavory people there.
Mum : Yeah, if you go. I will be naturally concerned.
Son : Actually, I don't really want to visit that disco, I don't like dance music anyway, but I just want to see what it's like.
Mum : Sure, I trust that you know my reservations, and I don't want to sound like a nag but you must be careful. Don't have any dealings with unruly people.
Son : (feeling a lot better that he's been given the approval) You know what, mum. My friends think I'll never get your approval, but now I have. I'll tell them that. And anyway, now that you've said okay, I'll see if I want to join them this Friday at all.
All teenagers, and even adults, want is to be genuinely listened to, and not talked over.
Just sharing. Thanks. -
qizai:
And what should a parent do if the son in scenario B decides to still decides to go ahead and get mixed up? Stay mum and allow him to continue 'airing' emotional air, or set the boundaries and expectations?
Situation 2
Son : Mum, I want to go to the disco on Friday night, with my friends.
Mum : You're interested to go to the disco, because your friends are going?
Son : Yeah, most of the guys in my class hanged out there at least once before. I felt like a noob when they talked about it, and I don't want to be left out.
Mum : I can understand that you don't want to feel left out. Nobody likes to feel left out.
Son : Yeah..
Mum : I'm sure you know about my reservations.
Son : Yeah, I know you feel its unwise to hang out there, because you think there're unsavory people there.
Mum : Yeah, if you go. I will be naturally concerned.
Son : Actually, I don't really want to visit that disco, I don't like dance music anyway, but I just want to see what it's like.
Mum : Sure, I trust that you know my reservations, and I don't want to sound like a nag but you must be careful. Don't have any dealings with unruly people.
Son : (feeling a lot better that he's been given the approval) You know what, mum. My friends think I'll never get your approval, but now I have. I'll tell them that. And anyway, now that you've said okay, I'll see if I want to join them this Friday at all.
All teenagers, and even adults, want is to be genuinely listened to, and not talked over.
Just sharing. Thanks. -
Hi insider,
Thanks for sharing.
Initially I have the same reaction that "give you an inch, you take a foot"… But what you shared later was really reasonable. I hope I will handle this situation sensitively when my turn comes. -
insider:
Great post - that is the way my mom raised my family.... we had the scope to develop and learn. That 'have fun' message validates his respect for your trust in him...qizai:
Son : Mum, I want to go to the disco on Friday night, with my friends.
Something similar happened to me just this new year eve.
Two days ago was the first new year eve that my two eldest kids were not with me with 18 years old daughter in Japan and 16 years old son in Suntec doing countdown with friends. I only had my 7 years old and hubby to have a quiet dinner in a steak house in Orchard.
I was waiting for my son to return home after 12 am.
Instead, I received an sms from him,
\"Mum, may I stay in xxx's house for tonight please?\"
My first thought was not to agree as I had already granted him permission to go for late night countdown and it seemed he 'took an inch and still wanted a foot'.
I switched my thought coz I remembered I was ever young before and probably my countdown at 16 years old was also done at a girlfriend's house. The joy of being young, being carefree, being full of laughter and fun. To reply with a 'Please come back.' would definitely make him come home but after he was home, so what? Will it make him happy or make me pleased?
I returned his sms with,
'Have fun!'
I cut all my naggings of 'Be careful\", \"etc\"... (not that he doesn't know about people may get hack outside if one accidentally throws a stare. Probably he knows in more details than me.)
I always remind myself to have faith and trust in my these two teenage kids and try to give 'string-free' and 'nag-free' consent as much as I can. I think I raise them well this far in terms of their character development and so this faith actually is on my own parenting skills and guidance through their growing up years. Meaning, it is not so much of I trust them but rather I trust myself.
He came back at about 8 am the next morning.
He told me he knows now the festive period is over and he will observe his curfew of 10 pm again...
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