Asian Mums are more SUPERIOR?
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2ppaamm:
Either way, the road to success, be at the super level, or less so, requires love, involvement and intervention. Is it so clear cut from one level to the next? If a mother does not have the wherewithal to even sit down and play the piano with the daughter, what chance has she to go the extra step and be the holistic developer?
It is easy to just let the tv do the baby sitting, harder to sit down to work on a piano piece with the child, even harder to learn the piece first and then play it with her. But the hardest will be to discuss with her what she wants to play and achieve that together.insider:
went to Chiang Mai with my kids and watched elephant show.
those elephants can dance and train them well enough some even can do painting.
but is it the nature of elephants to dance and paint?
are the elephants happy even though they are always rewarded with bananas / carrots / etc.
some of us training kids like those people training elephants...
It is easy to pretend the child is not fat, she wil lose the weight when she is embarrassed one day. HArder to call her a fatty and go shape up. Harder still to help her plan a diet plan that works. Even harder to plan a culinary class together where both of you learn some good skills and bond and get healthier together.
It is easy to look at her B and tell her you love her anyway and hide on the pretext of not wanting to hurt her self esteem. Harder to tell her she had been lazy and should have gotten better grades,then pile up assessment books. Even harder to spend time and go through the paper and find out what she did not understand, buy some self help books together and plan a study plan together, reflect upon what she did right and wrong and plan better in future. If the subject is difficult for her, even dare to make the decision to help her drop it and pursue something that will set her up for success.
It is therefore much easier to produce a great piano prodigy who can play, much harder to produce a brilliant composer. It is easier to hothouse a mathematician, never an artist. It is easy drag young bodies and train them to be age group champions, but they'll never be olympians.
What's lacking in a tiger mother?instilling passion, ownership, discovering talents and interests. Such a pity, maybe Lulu would have been Celine Dion?! :evil:
I dare say the age group champions are the future Olympians. For every Andrea Jaeger and Jennifer Capriati, there are many Venus Williams and Kim Clijsters. Trained from young, groomed from the time they walked, and pushed hard everyday, tired or not, interested or not. Excellence comes from setting high standards, and driving towards them. Are they unhappy? Ask in 5 years when they have retired to their Miami Beach villa.
I think we have been unnecessarily harsh on the Tiger mother. We infer characteristics from a short newspaper article. She does not instil passion or ownership, or develop talent? I beg to differ in the interpretation. She saw the talent and cared enough to be the bad guy, to be the one who takes the brickbats and hostile stares, so that it does not get extinguished in a sea of mediocrity, that's my read. -
3Boys:
But is there a necessity to really learn the instrument with your child for the child to suceed in doing so? My boys can play their instruments well , but I never do learn the pieces they are learning and can't play as well. I don't sit with them for practices either.
If a mother does not have the wherewithal to even sit down and play the piano with the daughter, what chance has she to go the extra step and be the holistic developer?.2ppaamm:
It is easy to just let the tv do the baby sitting, harder to sit down to work on a piano piece with the child, even harder to learn the piece first and then play it with her. But the hardest will be to discuss with her what she wants to play and achieve that together.: -
phankao:
But is there a necessity to really learn the instrument with your child for the child to suceed in doing so? My boys can play their instruments well , but I never do learn the pieces they are learning and can't play as well. I don't sit with them for practices either.[/quote]I guess this is a very difficult question to answer, and depends on the child, the stage she/he is in, and the difficulty of what the child might be going through and the capacity of the mom/dad.
If a mother does not have the wherewithal to even sit down and play the piano with the daughter, what chance has she to go the extra step and be the holistic developer?.3Boys:
[quote=\"2ppaamm\"]
It is easy to just let the tv do the baby sitting, harder to sit down to work on a piano piece with the child, even harder to learn the piece first and then play it with her. But the hardest will be to discuss with her what she wants to play and achieve that together.:
I've never mastered my children's instruments better than any one of them. Once, my daughter couldn't get a certain part of a Mozart Sonata going when she was about 9 years old. My Tiger mother method infused with love did not work. I was sweating from my head to toe, not knowing how else to tell her to work her fingers. So I used all sorts of vocabulary, \"turn fingers like this, use finger tips more, tip toe a little bit, stress here a bit more\" It did not work at all.
She threw her arms up in desperation and said, \"You do it, lah!\" Well, I couldn't. I thought to myself, what right do I have to demand she does it when I couldn't myself. It took me a week, but I worked on the part myself. My stiff old fingers which was aching from all the housework. But I did it. One afternoon, when she was playing the same piece, I played alongside her in the upstairs piano when she was downstairs playing.
She did not express much. She came upstairs and said, \"You can play it, when did you practice?\" I told her that I wanted to show her it is possible and from then on, she never challenged me again, and she did finish her grade 8 when she was 11 with a good score. She knew that even though she is not the most gifted on the piano, it is possible to do something beyond her abilities. I had to show her that I can too.
So it is not about learning to play the instrument, but putting in the effort to show the child that nothing is impossible that is really important. I could have been like the Tiger mom and screamed, and demanded and insulted her knowing she will reach there. But I chose the hard way out, but I know I bought her love and respect. I'd prefer to know that she had learnt that the impossible is possible with mom showing the way, then to know that if being pushed she'll get there. To me, to show is better than to demand.
This girl is now 14 and will be heading off to university soon. I never had to tell her to study or practice her instruments, or to pack her bag for her sports training. She reminds me to get her from place to place on time. If I'm late, she sends me a SMS text and then get a cab to wherever she needs. Her drive comes from within, not from a Tiger mom. I don't know if I was ever right in my ways, but I'm willing to put in more effort and take the difficult way out if I want my children to excel. That's all. -
3Boys:
I think we have been unnecessarily harsh on the Tiger mother. We infer characteristics from a short newspaper article.
I tend to agree... somewhat... Which of us parents dare say we are perfect? Parenting is so complex an endeavour and stretches over so many years. Kids come in all sorts of personalities and talents hidden from plain view.
Babies don't come with a manual that says \"Stress tests were done and the stress limit is 567/900. Brain architecture designed to predispose musical genius. This child is also designed to respond positively to food rewards like 'youtiao and tau huay\" in the mornings.\"
Amy Chua's book chronicles her journey as a parent. Such a journey is bound to have hits and misses. She admits as much that her methods almost estranged her 2nd daughter. Like everyone of us, she is a parent for the first time. None of us know whether what we are doing for our kids is the right thing until we lie on our death beds and look deep in the faces around us.
She is a good writer and I would read her book just to get an idea of how someone else's journey was. I mean, before I visited Beijing, I asked 3 friends what they did... how they did it... where they stayed... and then I made up my mind what I myself wanted to do... and when I got there, I did stuff that no one told me about because I made things up as I went along.
In the past, I used to wish that I could float out of my body and go observe how other people brought up their kids so that I would know exactly how to bring mine up well (by steering away from others' mistakes and learning from others' successes). Amy Chua's book is as close as I can get to such maternal espionage. Haha! -
phankao:
But is there a necessity to really learn the instrument with your child for the child to suceed in doing so? My boys can play their instruments well , but I never do learn the pieces they are learning and can't play as well. I don't sit with them for practices either.[/quote]No, there isn't. My point was made in response to the negative vibes being thrown around mothers who push their kids hard. Being a taskmaster is being frowned upon and the standard is set for a parent to be a supermom who learns all the skills in order to be able to sit down with each and every child to develop their potential to the maximum. I'm sure there are such parents around, but I am not one of them and I suspect its not realistic for a large number of other parents as well.
If a mother does not have the wherewithal to even sit down and play the piano with the daughter, what chance has she to go the extra step and be the holistic developer?.3Boys:
[quote=\"2ppaamm\"]
It is easy to just let the tv do the baby sitting, harder to sit down to work on a piano piece with the child, even harder to learn the piece first and then play it with her. But the hardest will be to discuss with her what she wants to play and achieve that together.: -
Don’t think I was harsh on Amy Chua. But I think she is taking her style is also an easy way out. The easiest way out, is like what she described, to be permissive and not discipline. Hers is the second easiest way out, which is to demand and discipline without consideration of the child’s needs. The third way out is to respect the child’s needs and do what you think is right for the child. The last is to train the child to find out his needs and passion, and then steer him/her to the best possible outcome. The last is what I want to be. I guess I’d never achieve, but I’d always try.
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2ppaamm:
Haha! This is so inspiring!
She threw her arms up in desperation and said, \"You do it, lah!\" Well, I couldn't. I thought to myself, what right do I have to demand she does it when I couldn't myself. It took me a week, but I worked on the part myself. My stiff old fingers which was aching from all the housework. But I did it. One afternoon, when she was playing the same piece, I played alongside her in the upstairs piano when she was downstairs playing.
She did not express much. She came upstairs and said, \"You can play it, when did you practice?\" I told her that I wanted to show her it is possible and from then on, she never challenged me again, and she did finish her grade 8 when she was 11 with a good score. She knew that even though she is not the most gifted on the piano, it is possible to do something beyond her abilities. I had to show her that I can too.
I went around it differently though. I told my kids that I am a special fairy mommy because I have a magic nose... and everytime they run into difficulties my magic nose plugs onto their cheeks and energy will flow through my nose into their bodies and they will have strength to keep trying.
Sometimes, they were so frustrated that they were already in tears, but when the magic nose comes along and starts plugging all over their faces in the wrong spot, they'll start giggling and then after, I would sit there and wait for them to get the hang of it.
Learning to do the impossible can be done at very young ages. The Daughter learnt to buckle (the old style buckle, not the new button type) at around 2. The magic nose was in operation for about 20 minutes before she got it. -
2ppaamm:
Don't think I was harsh on Amy Chua. But I think she is taking her style is also an easy way out. The easiest way out, is like what she described, to be permissive and not discipline. Hers is the second easiest way out, which is to demand and discipline without consideration of the child's needs. The third way out is to respect the child's needs and do what you think is right for the child. The last is to train the child to find out his needs and passion, and then steer him/her to the best possible outcome. The last is what I want to be. I guess I'd never achieve, but I'd always try.
No, you haven't. You really do have a lot of energy and intellectual capacity to manage your children. If I cloned myself, I don't think I could accomplish half of you do. Your children seem to have benefited tremendously, and that is worthy of admiration, 'coz it ain't easy! -
3Boys:
No, there isn't. My point was made in response to the negative vibes being thrown around mothers who push their kids hard. Being a taskmaster is being frowned upon and the standard is set for a parent to be a supermom who learns all the skills in order to be able to sit down with each and every child to develop their potential to the maximum. I'm sure there are such parents around, but I am not one of them and I suspect its not realistic for a large number of other parents as well.[/quote]When my dd1 started learning the piano, I learnt together with her. It was not so tough as I used to learn the organ when I was a child. When she reached higher grades, we learnt to share our knowledge and discuss the questions in her theory papers. Her piano teacher even asked me to sit for the exam together with dd1. Dd1 was so thrilled and became more motivated to do well. Nothing beats this learning experience.
But is there a necessity to really learn the instrument with your child for the child to suceed in doing so? My boys can play their instruments well , but I never do learn the pieces they are learning and can't play as well. I don't sit with them for practices either.phankao:
[quote=\"3Boys\"]
If a mother does not have the wherewithal to even sit down and play the piano with the daughter, what chance has she to go the extra step and be the holistic developer?.
Next, I think I might have to pick up ballet for dd2...haha...
I let my dds learn according to their interests. Dd1 showed flair in piano skills so piano lessons were arranged. Dd2 has always enjoyed flitting around at home, so ballet lessons were arranged. Staying home helps me to identify their interests more distinctly and maximize their potentials at the earliest time. I don't follow Amy Chua's idea of having to learn only the piano or the violin. I felt my role is to identify what my children passionately enjoy doing, then I provide them with the resources and training. -
Battle Hymn of the Chinese Pet Pooch
http://petunialee.blogspot.com/2011/01/battle-hymn-of-chinese-pet-pooch.html
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