Asian Mums are more SUPERIOR?

[Alex001]

Chenonceau:

I would tend to disagree with the premise that the Chinese style of educating students cannot produce innovation and creativity.


I think that the Asian cultures do not reward/fete/celebrate/recognise highly creative people. These are considered disobedient rebels who bring dishonour.

I grew up in Singapore with parents who demanded everything. I did the housework before I went to school, carried the groceries, helped with dishes and the clothes. I wasn't allowed to even go out for movies (nor drink soft drinks... and had to eat EXACTLY what mom asked me to eat) so you can forget about playdates and sleepovers. And yes... my report card needed to be perfect or I would get caned.

Well... my report card was not perfect when I got to my teens. Just for the heck of it, I chose to be caned instead. And if being caned was the price of freedom, then sh** I was happy to be caned. I did everything I was not supposed to do. When I realised that I wasn't allowed phone calls from boys, I asked all my friends to get their brothers to call me at home... I was Chinese Child from Hell.

Nonetheless, I eventually managed to get my PhD... and I remember that in my 1st year, a renowned Israeli researcher researching in the field of creativity came to give guest lectures to the PhD students. There were 6 people in that lecture, and we did a series of creativity tests.

I was the only Singaporean there. My scores were not only the highest in that group, the 2nd guy was really far behind. He was German, and somewhat of a rebel himself, except that his parents respected his rebelliousness and didn't fight him. Mine fought me every step of the way.

Is it not possible that when you work a muscle you strengthen it? And hence, when a child prone to creativity hits road blocks all the time from parents he/she hones that potential for creativity? I am older now and more able to control my reflexes to do the opposite of what is accepted... to find odd ways of looking at problems... and to try it out just for the heck of it.

But people like me don't succeed in cultures where a collective identity is prized. To rise up the organisation, you need to obey rules. This is something I have often found difficult to do. Things are better now that I am older.

Many many ground-breaking researchers today (in USA) are Chinese (Amy Chua's father was one such). Research requires creativity even if you're doing average quality stuff. To achieve recognition amongst researchers, needs a lot of creativity indeed. One of the founders of Yahoo was Chinese, rebel son of immigrant parents.

Amy Chua (herself a researcher) demonstrates a lot of creativity. Her writing is evocative and holds a sense of drama that twists in your guts. Otherwise, why do we react to her book with so much emotion? Even her threats are creative. And she is creative enough to even put out the book. It's a simple thing to do to make a lotta money but you gotta think of it first and pitch it right. She dared what other Chinese parents dared not. She did what others would NEVER think of doing. That's part of being creative. Elvis Presley dared to take black music and make it white. Black music had always been there. Adopting and adapting it was possible for every musician. Only Elvis thought of doing it in a big way. The difference is, you do that in USA, you are idolized. You do that in China, you are ostracized.

Even Amy's threats were creative... though no one can beat my friend's mom who told her grandson that she would put him in the toilet bowl and flush him away. Even I was horrified 'cos my mom was no where near that creative when it came to threats. Haha!

Ballet dancer Li Cunxin danced with the Houston Ballet for sixteen years. They moved to Melbourne with their two children where Li became a principal dancer with the Australian Ballet. Li was one of the world's best in his time. Ballet is a creative effort. Yet, Li grew up in China and was trained in a horribly repressive way in a school where the Amy Chua styles was institutionalized. Watch \"Mao's Last Dancer\" to understand.

I don't think Amy Chua's methods kill creativity. If anything, I think it hones a child's potential for creativity because it invites and strengthens the child's will to rebel and do things her way... differently. That's Lulu. I'm willing to bet that if anyone tested Lulu for creativity, her scores, like mine, would be off the charts.

The only thing though... is that you never HEAR of famous creative people in China because such souls aren't feted nor celebrated. Gee... you're not supposed to idolise such people. Art to the Chinese are time-honoured traditions. You learn an ancient art form. You don't create your own Elvis Presley style. You don't hear of such people in China (because they are social outcasts) but that doesn't mean the system does not produce them.

I don't want my kids to be creative. Creativity is a burden and a curse. I want my kids to blend into the world they belong to and be good enough to live a comfortable life where they have enough to eat, a nice home and people to love. I vaguely remember that the Japanese have a saying \"A beautiful flower that sticks out in a field of grass, gets its head chopped off\".

Western eyes trained on Asian cultures cannot but achieve a distorted view. One should not interpret the ways and social mores of Asian cultures using Western values. it becomes too easy to simplistically draw negative judgment.

Nobody talks about 4000 years of Western history though in actual fact, Western history is old... very very old. Westerners simply don't see that as important. Chinese people are ALWAY talking about those few thousand years (ad nauseum). This is because the Chinese think it is important to stay true to history. This means there is great respect for the old way of doing things. Hence, young upstarts (creative no doubt) are pooh poohed. Hence, artistes feted in China are kungfu artistes (long tradition), face mask changers (again long tradition), xiang shen (again long tradition). No Elvis.

Similarly, if you examine the personalities of the Chinese leaders, you won't find fiery Churchills nor charismatic Obamas. You find personable people who look bland. These people don't stick out, and therefore their heads don't get chopped off.

Anyway, this is an interesting topic... and it was fun to write this post. just for the heck of it! Haha!

Wait, I am confused. Are you saying that creativity is good or that creativity is bad?

In my opinion, creativity is obviously good. Creative people is what makes this world this world. Chinese are obviously creative, or there wouldn't be Chinese paintings or pottery. I agree, some of the Chinese leaders are bland, but still sometimes get themselves killed, or receive controversy. Heck, this website was created out of creativity!

Being creative is obviously not like gambling. If one is bland, his/her head may not get chopped off, but he/she will get a horrible, meaningless and apathetic life. If one is creative, even if he/she has their head chopped off, their life was worthwhile and they won't regret it.

Creativity defines invention. Creativity is a pillar of the human spirit. Should creativity be lost, all hope is gone and we would be like sloths in the jungle.

[foreverj]

hi alex001,


i think u r missing the point of her post. there are two sides to the story. is creativity good or bad? "good" in some ways, "bad" in others.

for chenonceau, she has explained how her creativity has brought good performance and yet the same creativity may cause her to stick up like a sore thumb in other more stifling environments.

chenonceau, i agree with you as dh is pretty much the same. his creative ways make him an outstanding performer, and yet, in the corporate world, it may not necessarily stand him in good stead. eg. in US MNC where everyone wants to be star performer - its good. But in Japanese envt where any star makes the rest of the people (who r used to mediocrity) uncomfortable, the star becomes the one everyone wishes to get rid of.

I understand what u mean by, it gets better as u grow older. I think as dh grows older, he is more mature to handle himself in a better way, such that he does not stick out like a sore thumb anymore.

[fristrom]

Chenonceau:

But people like me don't succeed in cultures where a collective identity is prized.


....

I don't want my kids to be creative. Creativity is a burden and a curse.

Hi Chenonceau,

I read your various postings, and found them interesting and insightful.

Successful is subjective. One can define successful as financially well off. Or perhaps, could we defined it as able to pursue your dream? As kids, we all have our dream of what we want to be when we grow up. I am not sure how many made it, but I would think they are the minority.

I don't have a PhD in motivation nor psychology. As a layman, I link creative to dream. When you have a dream/vision, you will come up with creative way to get to it.

Don't think we have much choice what we want our kids to be; but I do believe we have a choice about the environment. Rather than conforming to the environment, the alternative maybe is to create/seek another environment where a creative person can flourish?

regards,
fristrom

[Chenonceau]

fristrom:

Chenonceau:

But people like me don't succeed in cultures where a collective identity is prized.


....

I don't want my kids to be creative. Creativity is a burden and a curse.

Hi Chenonceau,

I read your various postings, and found them interesting and insightful.

Successful is subjective. One can define successful as financially well off. Or perhaps, could we defined it as able to pursue your dream? As kids, we all have our dream of what we want to be when we grow up. I am not sure how many made it, but I would think they are the minority.

I don't have a PhD in motivation nor psychology. As a layman, I link creative to dream. When you have a dream/vision, you will come up with creative way to get to it.

Don't think we have much choice what we want our kids to be; but I do believe we have a choice about the environment. Rather than conforming to the environment, the alternative maybe is to create/seek another environment where a creative person can flourish?

regards,
fristrom

Teehee... Your definition of creativity is as good as any, and I agree with your point about the right environment. Person-environment fit eh?

[Chenonceau]

Alex001:

Wait, I am confused. Are you saying that creativity is good or that creativity is bad?


In my opinion, creativity is obviously good. Creative people is what makes this world this world. Chinese are obviously creative, or there wouldn't be Chinese paintings or pottery. I agree, some of the Chinese leaders are bland, but still sometimes get themselves killed, or receive controversy. Heck, this website was created out of creativity!

Being creative is obviously not like gambling. If one is bland, his/her head may not get chopped off, but he/she will get a horrible, meaningless and apathetic life. If one is creative, even if he/she has their head chopped off, their life was worthwhile and they won't regret it.

Creativity defines invention. Creativity is a pillar of the human spirit. Should creativity be lost, all hope is gone and we would be like sloths in the jungle.

Alex, it is heartening to find a 12 year old who will even think through these issues. Bravo for you!

I am not saying creativity is good nor bad. I am just describing how differently two cultures view creativity.

The sky is blue. How does one judge a sky for being blue? And if we judged the sky's being blue as bad, can we change it to purple? Americans prize creativity. Chinese do so much much less. That's all I am saying.

I hope this is clearer.

[Chenonceau]

foreverj, thank you… I begin to feel in you a cyber soulmate… hee!

[foreverj]

Chenonceau:

foreverj, thank you... I begin to feel in you a cyber soulmate... hee!

really? i'm honoured leh :celebrate:

good thing abt ksp is that the younger parents get to learn from the experienced parents - their struggles, challenges, victories and overall lessons. u've set my mind thinking abt how i can shape my dd's growing years eg. do i want to handhold her or do i want to leave her to be more independent. i'm not sure if i can \"let go\" as much as you, but i think it shld be alright to once in a while, let her experience the consequence of her own actions. we'll see hw things go when it comes la...

[jameslim]

Hello to all,


my name is James and I am a Television Producer from Channel NewsAsia. I am currently working on BlogTV.sg, a LIVE programme hosted by The Flying Dutchman and it airs every Tuesday evening at 8.30pm on CNA.

In light of the recent Amy Chua article on Tiger Mums, I would like to speak to parents who feel that they believe in the Asian style of parenting. It would be great if I could speak to or be referred to a parent that fits that category of description.

My email contact is [email protected] and I look forward to a positive response.

Sincerely,
James Lim

[mrswongtuition]

I think the most important lesson to learn from this as a parent:

Pick up the good (inforcing discipline in our kids) and remembering not to use the bad (using dinner as threat).

[metz]

mrswongtuition:

I think the most important lesson to learn from this as a parent:

Pick up the good (inforcing discipline in our kids) and remembering not to use the bad (using dinner as threat).

We can certainly use some creativity in our threats. Just threatened my kids that if they cannot perfect their songs, no oysters for them.