PM Lee urges more babies in Year of Rabbit
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Chenonceau:
Companies don't want to hire older workers bcos they cost more money due to experience.
I agree with Janet Lee.janet_lee88:
4 months maternity leave scare off employers, esp women at child-bearing age although partially paid by govt. Having paternity leave may scare employers but then I believe employers can be men too right ?
If they're scared of employing women AND men, then who will they employ? Monkeys? Maybe, they'll employ old folks (who are currently discriminated against). Fact is, if paternity leave is mandatory, then discrimination against women and old folks will stop. Every one will be on a level playing field because EVERYONE pulls childcare duty.
The reason the govt doesn't wanna go into it is not that they're afraid that employers won't hire men... it's because they wanna keep business costs low.
Paternity leave should be made compulsory, so there is no discrimination between hiring male and female. So it doesn't mean that just because the men don't get pregnant but their wives can (HaHaHa) and yet still entitled to paternity leave. -
Chenonceau:
Quite agree that govt is keen on ensuring biz costs are kept low. But I find it very funny that land prices keep spiralling, cost of land just keep going through the roof. Shouldn't govt take measures to contain that rather than just look at labour costs?
The reason the govt doesn't wanna go into it is not that they're afraid that employers won't hire men... it's because they wanna keep business costs low.
A stall in foodcourt costs tens of thousands to rent PER MONTH, I don't think any of the workers at that stall cost tens of thousands to hire. -
hquek:
Rent is not cheap in food court...potential stall holders have to pay advance rent on top of exisitng costs regardless of whether you make or not. On top of that, cost of hiring a helper is not cheap. Food prices have spiralled too. Not only that, there is a need to make big PROFITS.
A stall in foodcourt costs tens of thousands to rent PER MONTH, I don't think any of the workers at that stall cost tens of thousands to hire.Chenonceau:
The reason the govt doesn't wanna go into it is not that they're afraid that employers won't hire men... it's because they wanna keep business costs low. -
Just my two cents on the subject on why the declining birth rates
When you have kids, its a commitment for life. Lets not talk about getting kids into elite schools like nanyang/aitong etc… Just basic things like a house over your head, food on the table, medicine when your child is sick… These are questions I pose to myself from time to time.
Finances:
Can you provide for your children at the level you desire?
Is there sufficient visibility in your finances? Earning $10k a month in 2011 may not mean you earn $10k a month in 2021…maybe much more, maybe much less…
Are you reasonably sure that you will not get fired and join the hordes of unemployed post-40s? Also, peoples definition of employment might differ. I know of people who lost their jobs just when the children are hitting secondary school…Do you stop tuition? Allowances? Holidays? Sell the car? Downgrade the house? At what point do you stop? What will the kids think and how will they handle it?
Do you have enough savings to put them through non-local university if they do not get a scholarship or cannot get into local university? Am I going to send my child into society sans a tertiary education?
Grandparents and maids:
Are both parents working? If so, who takes care of the child/children?
Do you have helpful grandparents? Are you prepared to return the favor when the grandparents get really old? (No free lunch in this world, mate…) Even if you have the $$$, do you have the time?
Hire a maid? More $$$ and more importantly, at what age would you trust the maid with your children alone. I still remember the muay thai kicking maid from youtube. What about the one that threw the 12? year old down the block of flats? I guess the families were just unlucky. Care to take that chance? -
hquek:
That's right!! They're flogging the wrong horse!! The excuses for not mandating paternity leave are just that... excuses. You can't mandate, but you can encourage.
Quite agree that govt is keen on ensuring biz costs are kept low. But I find it very funny that land prices keep spiralling, cost of land just keep going through the roof. Shouldn't govt take measures to contain that rather than just look at labour costs?Chenonceau:
The reason the govt doesn't wanna go into it is not that they're afraid that employers won't hire men... it's because they wanna keep business costs low.
Give mother 4 months maternity and fathers 2... but if father doesn't take, then the mother loses 2 months leave. Then for SURE, fathers will take... and when mother goes back to work after 4 months, fathers take over. ALL BY THEMSELVES.
Result: kids get 6 months of care in total. Both parents bond with child. Mothers don't have to bear ALL the sacrifices of having babies. We scale back at work. We reject promotions. We opt for part-time arrangements. We max out our leave (all sorts). We refuse to travel and thus can't take up key appointments. Everyone is in it together.
16 years later... lowered delinquency... lower youth crime... fewer youths at risk. Just bite the bullet.
We spend so many dollars on the military to protect ourselves from others. But we're blind to the need to spend $$ to ensure our society does not implode on itself. The thing is this, men make policy in Singapore. All our women MPs are silent and AWARE has voice but no power.... For men, childcare costs and sacrifices are economic EXTERNALITIES borne by women... there is NO MOTIVATION for men to resolve this problem.
I popped in on The Canopy at Yishun, and Canberra in Sembawang to get reno ideas for my house and I was horrified by the kind of prices being charged for little shoebox apartments. The showflats are done up to mislead. Gauze curtains mark what should be concrete walls... and enticing furniture is placed outside those walls in space that would be empty air in the real apartment. And I almost laughed out loud when the guy told me that I should buy the 800sq ft apartment because it is GOOD-SIZED. Whooooooooooooo!
We're seasoned property shoppers so we see right through all this. I wonder how many people got schnooked!! -
daddybear:
Finances:When you have kids, its a commitment for life. Lets not talk about getting kids into elite schools like nanyang/aitong etc... Just basic things like a house over your head, food on the table, medicine when your child is sick... These are questions I pose to myself from time to time.
Are you reasonably sure that you will not get fired and join the hordes of unemployed post-40s?
Do you stop tuition? Allowances? Holidays? Sell the car? Downgrade the house? At what point do you stop? What will the kids think and how will they handle it?
Do you have enough savings to put them through non-local university if they do not get a scholarship or cannot get into local university? Am I going to send my child into society sans a tertiary education?
Grandparents and maids:
Are both parents working? If so, who takes care of the child/children?
Do you have helpful grandparents? Are you prepared to return the favor when the grandparents get really old? (No free lunch in this world, mate...) Even if you have the $$$, do you have the time?
Hire a maid? More $$$ and more importantly, at what age would you trust the maid with your children alone.
Care to take that chance?
Everything is getting expensive...eating out isn't cheap but cooking at home isn't cheap either. Hubby & I coach kids to our best ability at the moment, providing Chinese tuition.
Maid:
After sending off the last Filipino, I couldn't bear the idea of having another one. Instead of helping with housework, I have to put up with bad attitude.
Stressful having one around, never left my kids home alone with them all the years I had maid.
Yes, our population is greying but how can the economy allow us to consider having more kids ? -
daddybear:
Hi daddybear,When you have kids, its a commitment for life. Lets not talk about getting kids into elite schools like nanyang/aitong etc...
Pre-school no need to send to Pat School House or MMI, that is for the ones who can afford. Fortunately Pri/Sec school fees are cheap.
As for enrichment, that is optional. My kids do not have ballet, piano, speech and drama classes...can't afford based on 1 pay cheque.
But if one decides to be a parent, we have to make sure our kids are able to keep up with the school work and that itself is STRESS and EXPENSIVE.
I spend quite a large amt on my 2 kids' assessment books every year.
Forget about maid and holidays. That is for those who can afford...but if I have #3, I would need a helper to do the housework and attend to the bb so that I can coach my older kids in their studies. -
My point is that if people feel reasonably secure about their future, reproduction would not be a problem. We are not fish or insects where laying 1000s of eggs and rely the survival of the fittest strategy. That is not acceptable.
Take for example a family with one income. If that person loses their job, at the age of 40+..., good luck getting another one with a similar pay. Usually, at that age, the children are just starting primary or secondary school. At 50+, the situation is aggravated and the kids are expecting to go into tertiary.
And its quite tough surviving on a single income. Taking in a salary of say $5k (not too shabby), 3 children is not easy. After all, people do not want to live from paycheck to paycheck. Someone in this forum just posted an article on an older person who had 2 kids and is clearly having trouble managing. $$$ problems often lead to mental and emotional problems.
http://www.kiasuparents.com/kiasu/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19271
The trains at peak hour is sooo packed. Imagine at a woman at 3rd trimester fighting for a seat. Not everyone can afford a car or take a cab every day during 3rd trimester... If any unfortunate accidents, one might have to give birth to a stillborn... :!:
The young pple today are educated and smart. I am sure these points have been observed by them and probably much more other factors that my generation do not have the perspective on. Just find that the blame game being shoved on the citizens for lack of productivity lacks some kind of perspective. The common citizen, 平民 perspective. -
[quote=\"daddybear\"]My point is that if people feel reasonably secure about their future, reproduction would not be a problem. We are not fish or insects where laying 1000s of eggs and rely the survival of the fittest strategy. That is not acceptable.
Take for example a family with one income. If that person loses their job, at the age of 40+..., good luck getting another one with a similar pay. Usually, at that age, the children are just starting primary or secondary school. At 50+, the situation is aggravated and the kids are expecting to go into tertiary.
And its quite tough surviving on a single income. Taking in a salary of say $5k (not too shabby), 3 children is not easy. After all, people do not want to live from paycheck to paycheck. Someone in this forum just posted an article on an older person who had 2 kids and is clearly having trouble managing. $$$ problems often lead to mental and emotional problems.
http://www.kiasuparents.com/kiasu/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19271
I totally agree with you daddybear.But strangely, I have met ppl who simply don't care. That is, they don't believe in providing what I view as necessary if you want to have a child. They simply don't bother to save up or even plan for the child's uni education. Come on, isn't that the least that we should do as parents? Even Ang Pows collected during CNY are not given back to the children but recycled and given to others. For me and hubby, we just want to do our best to give the best to our dd so that she can have a comfortable life. This I feel, is the responsibiltiy of a parent and hence I can understand the concerns about $$$. -
Would \"over\" concern about the child's future and finance be a hinderance to having more kids as well. There need to be a balance approach. No one can guarantee you will hold your job till your child reaches adult age. If you think so far ahead, then chances are there will be so many uncertainties that will sort of end up not having kids.
On planning for a child's uni...my personal opinion is that its a long shot. I dun even know if they can go to there. I'm sure if they are able to, then there will be ways to work around the fees issue. Otherwise, its like planning 20 years ahead :?
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