Teachers from India join S'pore schools

[b2b3m4]

Tamarind,

I totally understand your situation. After numerous problems with maids. I quitted my previous job in the hospital bcos I simply I can’t put in the kind of hours required in the hospital when DD2 came along. Shift works, night calls and all. In the end, I traded my exciting hosipital work for a more office hours one. And in replacement, my boss took in philipinos to do the job. A case of foreign talent replacing singaporeans in a job?

[daddybear]

tamarind:

In fact, my observation is that some Singaporeans would rather kill themselves than do some lowly jobs. For example, a couple of years ago, a man committed suicide by jumping onto the MRT tracks. When his wife told news reporters that he killed himself because of poverty, she received large amounts of money from public donations. After that, I heard rumours of quite a few cases of copycat suicides on the MRT track, supposedly other men think that they could also get so much donations for their families. However, the news stopped reporting on such cases and the public was not aware of it.

The english newspaper does not report but the WanBao do report this type of news quite regularly. During the 2008 financial crisis, an ah-mah near my block jumped... apparently nobody in her family wanted to take care of her and she was the cause of several arguments within the family. Hence decided to stop being an \"inconvenience\". I think Wanbao mentioned it but no a single peep from ST. I guess they wanted to keep morale up.

In terms of suicide, the person would probably be going through quite a number of issues that affect their mental state. I can't make the same observation that people will kill themselves rather than doing lowly jobs. I don't think the first guy did it for the money. And for the follow-ons, it makes their pain and distress no less. T

Also, in defense of my fellow SGs, I remember a couple of incidences in the US, where people shot their entire families before killing themselves when they knew they lost all their wealth. Thankfully, we don't have such cases, at least not over money... :roll:

Actually for that $800/month, 6 days a week, mention that room and board is provided and also medical fees is insured, along with $5K bond in case they get into any \"trouble\". Economically, its not that bad a deal. Don't forget they can rent out their rooms once they move in with you. Thats extra income. I don't think it is impossible to hire a Singaporean once you explain the economics of it. I see some local cleaners getting $1k or less... Being a $800 maid makes so much more sense. I think in time to come, people will take your offer. I bet you that ah mah would have loved to get the job!

b2b3m4:
In regards to the accent, the point is if there are people willing to be teachers, why are these jobs going to foreigners, be they black, white, red or green? And the point is these are well paying jobs, not the so called \"dirty\" jobs. BTW, as long as its an honest living, there is no dirty jobs. Many times, the real dirty jobs pay really well but thats a side issue.

Can you share your sources where you get these information? I don't see the same scenarios which you pointed out personally or hear such stories. For the people in the 40s, my understanding is they are happy to retain their jobs even at the same payscale. Their kids are right in the middle of their education, so these people tend to be less flighty in job hopping.

[tamarind]

[quote]
Actually for that $800/month, 6 days a week, mention that room and board is provided and also medical fees is insured, along with $5K bond in case they get into any \"trouble\". Economically, its not that bad a deal. Don't forget they can rent out their rooms once they move in with you. Thats extra income. I don't think it is impossible to hire a Singaporean once you explain the economics of it. I see some local cleaners getting $1k or less... Being a $800 maid makes so much more sense. I think in time to come, people will take your offer. I bet you that ah mah would have loved to get the job! [/quote]If it is really that easy, then there will not be 190000 foreign maids in Singapore.

My mother used to work as a cleaner in an office, she would rather do that than work as a maid in a family. She can go home after 5pm. Remember that I needed a maid 24 hours when my kids were babies, 7am to 9pm now that they are in lower primary. Don't tell me that I can send the maid home after 5pm, my work often requires me to work until 9pm, and then wake up at 5am to work again.

My mother's elder sister, 70+ years old, is now working in a food court, collecting dishes. I asked my mother whether her sister would like to work for me, my mother said that her sister would rather collect dishes than work as a maid.

Also, many families require maids to take care of elderly who are bedridden and need to be carried to the toilet to bathe. Can ah mah do that ?

As for the man who jumped onto the MRT track and wife collected large amounts of public donations, I read the interviews with the wife and it was very clear to me that he did so because he did not want to take on lowly jobs, and also because his wife complained that about not enough money.
The newspapers stopped reporting specifically on people committing suicide on the MRT tracks, because that is more sensational than people committing suicide by jumping off flats.

[tamarind]

Does MOE pay the same salary for people who have worked for many years , but no teaching experience? I had to accept a major pay cut when i changed to teaching a few years ago. Now that the economy is doing well , its not surprising that locals prefer other jobs.

[daddybear]

I think the economics of being a maid will eventually shift people's mindset. The economic viability of being a maid is probably under-rated? Nothing all that much to do with being ah mahs etc. There are people out there who will work for not much money, case in point the ah mah who would rather work in a food court.


From what i understand, he was already a construction worker. For a man to abandon his wife and 2 sons because he does not want to do lowly jobs... It stretches my realm of credibility although stranger things have happened
:?

As economic reality sets in, i think people do adjust. Its hard to pit one's ego against an empty bank account and with kids looking at you asking \"Whats up?\". In a macabre Darwinian evolution, Singaporeans will not remain all that \"soft\". The jumpers will jump so all that remains eventually are people willing to take on dirty jobs. The question is as a society or a person, are we willing to let things go to that extent?

I actually made some inquiries to the teaching profession (kiasu, have to prepare for my 40s!). You get paid a nominal salary during the NIE year and then start from a normal salary. I.E. if you are a graduate, expect $2k+. Thats from a worst/base case scenario. Maybe there are people who can get more if they are doing something related to the subjects they teach?

But $2k+ is decent. For people earning $20k+ in the past, you just have to adapt. Don't worry about people looking down on you etc... if they do, they are not worth knowing. (Sorry, digressed a little bit)

[tamarind]

daddybear:

I think the economics of being a maid will eventually shift people's mindset. The economic viability of being a maid is probably under-rated? Nothing all that much to do with being ah mahs etc. There are people out there who will work for not much money, case in point the ah mah who would rather work in a food court.


From what i understand, he was already a construction worker. For a man to abandon his wife and 2 sons because he does not want to do lowly jobs... It stretches my realm of credibility although stranger things have happened
:?

As economic reality sets in, i think people do adjust. Its hard to pit one's ego against an empty bank account and with kids looking at you asking \"Whats up?\". In a macabre Darwinian evolution, Singaporeans will not remain all that \"soft\". The jumpers will jump so all that remains eventually are people willing to take on dirty jobs. The question is as a society or a person, are we willing to let things go to that extent?

I actually made some inquiries to the teaching profession (kiasu, have to prepare for my 40s!). You get paid a nominal salary during the NIE year and then start from a normal salary. I.E. if you are a graduate, expect $2k+. Thats from a worst/base case scenario. Maybe there are people who can get more if they are doing something related to the subjects they teach?

But $2k+ is decent. For people earning $20k+ in the past, you just have to adapt. Don't worry about people looking down on you etc... if they do, they are not worth knowing. (Sorry, digressed a little bit)

I think you under-estimated how tough it is to be a maid. The job is physically demanding, that is why many employers don't even want foreign maids that are over 40 years old.

As for the construction worker, it is still considered higher calibre than collecting dishes at a food court, right ? Also, I remember that in an interview with the wife, she said that she could get financial aid from the government, but she had no money to take taxi to go and collect the money. Many people wondered why she could not take the bus. It is strange indeed.

I used to have an ex-colleague in his 40s, university graduate in engineering, worked as a manager before. He was desperate to get a job, applied to MOE, but was rejected. His results in university were very good. I don't really understand what sort of people MOE are looking for.

Have you read the famous Derek Wee's blog ?
http://derekwee.blogspot.com/2006_10_01_archive.html

[tamarind]

b2b3m4:

Tamarind,

I totally understand your situation. After numerous problems with maids. I quitted my previous job in the hospital bcos I simply I can't put in the kind of hours required in the hospital when DD2 came along. Shift works, night calls and all. In the end, I traded my exciting hosipital work for a more office hours one. And in replacement, my boss took in philipinos to do the job. A case of foreign talent replacing singaporeans in a job?

At least you have a choice of jobs. I don't have any choice. After my ex-company told me to leave due to \"re-structuring\", I sent out countless letters to look for jobs, and I only managed to find one job. Fortunately, it is a job that I like very much, teaching ! Though it is not exactly an office job and can be very tiring.

[daddybear]

tamarind:

I used to have an ex-colleague in his 40s, university graduate in engineering, worked as a manager before. He was desperate to get a job, applied to MOE, but was rejected. His results in university were very good. I don't really understand what sort of people MOE are looking for.

Have you read the famous Derek Wee's blog ?
http://derekwee.blogspot.com/2006_10_01_archive.html

Thats really crazy... That means normal people with ordinary results can kiss their MOE application hopes good bye... I often wonder what lies ahead in the 40s. Have to focus on the thread... Yes, I would like to understand MOE's criteria too.

Hm, is this the blog that led to the famous \"get out of my elite uncaring face\" quote by one of the daughter of the elite class? His thoughts are reflected in plenty of places.

[b2b3m4]

Tamarind,

I know that I am very lucky that I can still get a office hour job but of cos with just as much a pay cut. I know of many others who do not have a choice like mine. Mothers who need to fly often, glamorous on the outside but tough on the inside. Besides a pay cut, careers advancement and all is zero simply I can’t go beyond 6pm. Call me a quitter, I am one of those of which make the govt bring in foreign talent.

Daddybear,
Same job, same pay scale. Yes u are right to point out I am wrong bcos no one wld do the same thing they did 20 years ago at the same pay they receive 20 years ago. Yes, same job, same thing. But pay must increase bcos of inflation, increase in cost & standard of living. The reason for the lost of job is bcos these are the same poeple who are so comfortable in theor work that they are resistant to change. There are so many courses & books out there telling one how to adapt to changes, how to aware of changes before it is too late. Can u name me a job that is done the same way that is done 20 years ago short of a traditional skill. Even for something like art, music & sports, along the way one need to prepare for change. As parents, can we use the same method as our parents? 10 years down the road, one still cant use the internet, one know as a parent one is very much lagging behind. When one don’t make constant changes, in 10-20 years down the road, when made to take up a totally different role bcos their job were made redundant, they feel victimized and thought of that it was a case of foreign talent taking over their job.
To share a very real scenario, many a times, these FT are over qualified for the job. But bcos their degrees are not recognized locally, they ended up being my subordinate holding a technical position instead of their real profession. My staff in their 50’s now still hold their jobs but they admit its tough and lament of the past easier times when customers (or patients in my context) are so much easier to handle. Tell them what to do and no one question why. Now one needs to be constantly audited, answer complicated question from the public and still put on good manners and fast service. I pity my 50 year old staff but u as a public standing on the other end. Can u accept slow, nonchalant service given by public health in the past? Or wld u say pity my staff and say I dun mind waiting for another hour bcos my staff is already doing their part?

[b2b3m4]

Talking about being retrenched at 40 and changes in society. This is really off topic but i just can’t help but to share this…


In the past, it is mandatory for food handlers or hawkers to receive yearly typhoid vaccination to prevent the spread of typhoid. MOH must have realised that SG is safe enough and removed this vaccination and in place put in courses and tests for safe food handling. (esp after the Geylang Serai food poisoning incident). My 60 year soo kueh auntie tells me, "Wa liao, at my age still want me to study, if i can study still need to sell soo kueh?" "Miss, it is ok lah… please give me the jab instead lah!!!"