Teach Less, Learn More

[Chenonceau]

See words in blue.

ksi:

Actually my experience is pretty much similar to yours. While we both believe in the concept of \"Teach Less, Learn More\" and its merits, we both see that it is not exactly working out in the schools currently other than bud's school.

I believe the implementation of this was bad. It was not taken in stages but in a big bang fashion. There are 3 fundamental problems here:

1. Teachers are not ready to execute this properly. Some use it as a reason to totally not teach in class. The lack of understanding is severe to its execution.
Agree. You've expressed it far better than I could.
2. Schools are not ready to roll out fully to all as this requires solid planning and strong communication to rope in parents' help to complement it.
Agree. You've expressed it far better than I could. In addition to the point you raised, I would add that I would be concerned if parental involvement were a MUST for a child to succeed. The moment success hinges on parental involvement, we would lose the top talent we might otherwise find from the pool of under-privileged children whose parents may not care, may be absent, may have no time, may have no money to buy another's involvement in their child's education, may be dead or may be in jail. There should be a way to ensure that schools can teach independently and sufficiently. That way, under-privileged kids can continue to have an open path to success.

Maybe 10 years down the road it gets corrected but as of now we have to suffer it's inefficiency first. I know we have been accused of \"spoon-feeding\" for many years but to swing to the other extreme is just transferring the issue from one end of the spectrum to another. Agree. You've expressed it far better than I could.

[Chenonceau]

cantbearit2:

ppnqq:

[quote=\"buds\"]
You guys.. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php

Did she just call me heavy... weight...? http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php

Oh no! I shouldn't have downed both the Haagen D's Belgian Chocs..

Ahem, IMHO, she may not be referring to 'that' part but rather 'the other', like those in your.. avatar? Seriously, I can imagine myself being suffocated 'in there'. :politebleah: :siam:

Aiyo, all of u tink too much lah. IM juz referring to 2 v active contributors (sori got to gif them e credit agn cos keep reading their thread ) of KSP forum lah. Not weight & err....body part lor.... haha.... :lol:

Now tat buds mention abt neighbourhood sch, there is somethg I will like to share.

Juz came back fr my family doc. He is v kind to share his views abt our ED sys. Although both his DS is in a branded sch, he does not wan to send his youngest DD (3 y.o. now) to one in future.

Reason quoted by him being, his DS sch presumes everyone had some form of enrichm (learn more) so T dun have to teach as much (teach less). :frustrated:

He did his research & compare notes wif some of his frenz who sent their kids to neighbourhood sch. He realised that some of these neighbourhood schs actually had more enrichm (not necessarily equate more stress) for their students compared wif his DS sch. Although he said he's not sure abt other branded schs but tis is definitely e case for his DS sch. In conclusion, he warned me not 2b too concern abt elite sch. Instead focus on wat e sch had to offer in terms of their prog. So i guess although TLLM is MOE's direction but diff schs may execute it in vastly diff manner. Let's hope MOE is fine tuning their execution

For those caught in tis teething period & not getting e help fr T & P aft open comm, 靠自几 ya?! [/quote]Happened to my friend too... an airline pilot.

[buds]

cantbearit2:

ppnqq:

[quote=\"buds\"]
You guys.. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php

Did she just call me heavy... weight...? http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php

Ahem, IMHO, she may not be referring to 'that' part but rather 'the other', like those in your.. avatar? Seriously, I can imagine myself being suffocated 'in there'. :politebleah: :siam:

Aiyo, all of u tink too much lah. IM juz referring to 2 v active contributors (sori got to gif them e credit agn cos keep reading their thread ) of KSP forum lah. Not weight & err....body part lor.... haha.... :lol:[/quote]We're all pulling your leg lah darling.. :lol:

cantbearit2:

Now tat buds mention abt neighbourhood sch, there is somethg I will like to share.

Juz came back fr my family doc. He is v kind to share his views abt our ED sys. Although both his DS is in a branded sch, he does not wan to send his youngest DD (3 y.o. now) to one in future.

Reason quoted by him being, his DS sch presumes everyone had some form of enrichm (learn more) so T dun have to teach as much (teach less). :frustrated:

He did his research & compare notes wif some of his frenz who sent their kids to neighbourhood sch. He realised that some of these neighbourhood schs actually had more enrichm (not necessarily equate more stress) for their students compared wif his DS sch. Although he said he's not sure abt other branded schs but tis is definitely e case for his DS sch. In conclusion, he warned me not 2b too concern abt elite sch. Instead focus on wat e sch had to offer in terms of their prog. So i guess although TLLM is MOE's direction but diff schs may execute it in vastly diff manner. Let's hope MOE is fine tuning their execution

This comparison is still subjective to the school the kind doc made his
observations with too.. for perhaps he too, happened to pick up from
another good neighbourhood school's Teach Less Learn More structure.

As for the fine tuning, don't think it's MOE that's a primary agency entirely
to look into the execution for the execution had already been executed.. :lol:
.. but rather MOE should look into perhaps conducting spot checks on their
pool of teachers... speak with P's more often to follow up on this Teach Less
Learn More concept and discuss how to better it, since it's already in motion
anyway. Like how others have input, there should be a form of appraisal in
place to observe the progress put into place with this new idea and how it's
catching on with the teaching power ... discuss on the resources or plans to
improve the structure or the flow of lessons for schools that may not come
up strong on that appraisal charts. Teachers found guilty of not delivering the
idea holistically may perhaps be sent for an exchange program with another
school to see how things should be done or follow a mentorship pgrm to help
him/her see the idea in a fresh perspective so that he/she can come back to
serve his/her school with a new pair of eyes... and of course... heart.

cantbearit2:

For those caught in tis teething period & not getting e help fr T & P aft open comm, 靠自几 ya?!

Yes, hang in there.. i like to believe that there is nothing so impossible that
cannot be resolved.. but i do agree time CAN be a major factor, unfortunately.

Parents should hopefully see constructive feedback as at least one of the
ways.. in which; how their small voices can be heard and project a need
to perhaps run some inquiries into under-performing or non-performing
staff. Everyone needs some help along the way regardless or not they
indeed know they need it. I choose to see it positively whereby some
teachers may be overwhelmed by the new idea with a relatively still
large class size that it may come across as not being receptive to
the idea as a whole and hence executing the delivery of lessons
reverse as to how it was supposed to be implemented.

Then again, in all extremes... it can also be that some teachers are indeed
way off... when it comes to delivery which directly questions their passion
for still being in this industry.. these are the bo-chaps who do spoil the
basket of good apples.. and mind you, doesn't apply to just teachers
pe se... but there are bo-chaps in all forms of occupation and not
just in the teaching profession.

[Peony]

Chenonceau:

cantbearit2:

Juz came back fr my family doc. He is v kind to share his views abt our ED sys. Although both his DS is in a branded sch, he does not wan to send his youngest DD (3 y.o. now) to one in future.

Reason quoted by him being, his DS sch presumes everyone had some form of enrichm (learn more) so T dun have to teach as much (teach less). :frustrated:

He did his research & compare notes wif some of his frenz who sent their kids to neighbourhood sch. He realised that some of these neighbourhood schs actually had more enrichm (not necessarily equate more stress) for their students compared wif his DS sch. Although he said he's not sure abt other branded schs but tis is definitely e case for his DS sch. In conclusion, he warned me not 2b too concern abt elite sch. Instead focus on wat e sch had to offer in terms of their prog. So i guess although TLLM is MOE's direction but diff schs may execute it in vastly diff manner. Let's hope MOE is fine tuning their execution

For those caught in tis teething period & not getting e help fr T & P aft open comm, 靠自几 ya?!

Happened to my friend too... an airline pilot.

I realised this a decade ago, hence why I chose a neighbourhood school over a branded one - one which had a policy of helping every child.

They only stream based on result at P5 & P6.

The shortfall is... as DD is in the best class at P5... the teacher is not teaching nor helping as much as the other classes for the same reason (as what happens in branded schools). Most kids in her class have enrichment (or super stay at home mums) and are way ahead of syllabus!

I was expecting the teacher to help more in compo as I cannot help her much BUT as the rest are way ahead, she's left playing catch up. She's shared some of the super compos, full of techniques... and when I asked DD if these were taught in school she said \"no\".

[buds]

buds:

True. True. But don't tell me in say 10 Primary 1 classes in a school, 9

of them are hopeless cases? :!:

cantbearit2:

haha...mayb I saw too many teachers who r juz doing their job & P does not gif clear guidelines to e teachings in sch. I have met up wif some P prior to PV application b4 DD1's registration & was impressed wif some, disappointed wif lots.

Not just teachers, hun. Many out there are doing their jobs for the sake of
it.. that's for sure. I've done a few different stints myself to know that this
mentality exist in every profession there is. Yes, i agree... to a certain
extent, P's should be in place to also provide guidance and steer their
teachers along.. assistance should be rendered as promptly as possible to
seemingly lost souls worth the second chances and to succeed in ensuring
this happens, we now need P's passionate enough to lead this cause as well.

Parents need P's who are around to ensure the children's needs are
met in the best standards possible, be it in a neighbourhood OR a banded
school. This brings us to the same point where there can be P's who are
also there for the sake of the status or rank of the job. :roll: I've personally
encountered totally closed-door ones who display the syndrome of... if got
anything, ask my teachers and staff... go attack my front line ... dun come
suka suka knocking my office door with your complains... go to MOE and
see if i care..

These kinds can really make me :x.

cantbearit2:

Mayb my expectations was too high. :lol:

Dear arh... at least you are the first one brave enough to admit that just
mebbe and reali just mebbe... high expectations are also a factor in this
case. :lol: Teheehee..

buds:

I mean, we gotta also be fair to the teaching pool for we may not know their side of the coin. We shouldn't generalise or stereotype ALL teachers to be so, just cos we got one or two bad ones, while i do not deny that 1 or 2 is depressing enough and bad enough for it can spiral down a child's motivation faster than a tunnel slide... and not to mention it will be hard to build it back up once again.

cantbearit2:

I always held great admiration for educators wif passion. My DH's aunt was a P wif a heart. Her passion is contagious. Her 3 daughters R v well brought up. Patient, caring, respectful, helpful and still fun loving and creative. Unfortunately tis aunt was promoted & trf to MOE HQ so no longer a P.

I was also impressed wif another neighbourhood sch P who ans all my Q sincerely wif honesty.

So all is not lost to these educators. Guess it's pretty stress being a teacher these days??? I really have to hand it to those T who still have e fire in them aft many yrs. of teaching. :salute:

Educators with passion... hmmm... there are darling.. trust me.. there are. :hugs:
Oh no no.. :dowan: I definitely hope all is not lost! For our children
are our future and without educators who will help us educate our children
while we climb our own ladder to fill our rice bowls. Not every other person
can afford to stay home and help educate.. so yes, wherever possible do
look into discuss to resolve rather than finger pointing that gets nothin done.
Not just to bet on hope but to really bank in on constructive changes where
it is required.

buds:

:thankyou:
Finally broke my fast with that loooooong sharing..
Hope it didn't bore anyone.. paiseh. :oops:
Just thought to throw in some balance.

cantbearit2:

I nv get bored wif your postings lah, juz wish for more. :evil: IM currently reading e Montessori thread wif lots of inputs fr u.

:please: Thank you for appreciating my sharings. I hope to inspire parents
that early education is important for laying the foundation in our children &
that Montessori can offer that holistic approach to encompass the needs of
the growing child... It's not just about being academic. Children need more
than just book knowledge. There are many life skills that can be imparted
to them and will definitely serve them well for what the future holds.

[buds]

cantbearit2:

Reason quoted by him being, his DS sch presumes everyone had some form of enrichm (learn more) so T dun have to teach as much (teach less). :frustrated:

Chenonceau:

Happened to my friend too... an airline pilot.

Peony:

I realised this a decade ago, hence why I chose a neighbourhood school over a branded one - one which had a policy of helping every child.

They only stream based on result at P5 & P6.

The shortfall is... as DD is in the best class at P5... the teacher is not teaching nor helping as much as the other classes for the same reason (as what happens in branded schools). Most kids in her class have enrichment (or super stay at home mums) and are way ahead of syllabus!

Thanks for raising this... timely too.

This rat race that almost everyone is faulting the system for is also if you
see it a race that has cycled and recycled from the people who set them..
Parents who are not sending for extra help to truly help their children who
need them.. but those who create that environment to always be on top &
ensure they stay on top or worse be very wayyy ahead. This mentality will
only mean that the rest of us who may not be financially as resourceful will
always be playing catch up. *pant* :faint:

An example to share...
Mom brought K2 kiddie to centre and asked to recommend programmes for
the girl to prepare for P1..

Me : Is your girl already reading well?
Mom : Oh yes, she has completed her reading programme way back..

Before i could ask my next question to understand the nature of pgrm
she was looking for... mom added..
Mom : Oh, she has done compre and compo class ... oh yes, and also
creative writing class...

Me : How about Math... is she.. (i cudn finish my ?)
Mom : Yes yes.. did MPM, Kumon and abacus and now also in another
centre to help with problem sums..

Me : I see.. then may i know what kind of pgrms you are considering
for her for i think your child is definitely ready for P1.
Mom : Oh? Really? Thanks! But i think she's still not ready lar. Nowadays,
all children go primary school all know everything liao.. so must prepare
them properly.. later kenna lousy class with lousy teachers.. i dowan..
All my other friends oso send their children for lessons u know.. they
all say primary school later arh must know all this..

Suffice to say, there wasn't any pgrm that the K2 girl hasn't already done
in this case, to prepare her for P1. She was overprepared! :faint: Could
already do multiplication and division problem sums and fractions too!
Wow!

This mentality only pushes the stress level of parents and children to perform
way beyond their level and indirectly pushes the level of education to being
more challenging than it already is...

Somehow, Teach Less Learn More not only allows for other not-so-financially
resourceful parents' children to catch up with new things to learn in P1 but for prepared
children, they can take a breather to enjoy the other life skills that Teach Less Learn More has to offer.

Peony:

I was expecting the teacher to help more in compo as I cannot help her much BUT as the rest are way ahead, she's left playing catch up. She's shared some of the super compos, full of techniques... and when I asked DD if these were taught in school she said \"no\".

Did you raise this concern with the teacher?

I usually tell parents that they can always come up to me if they require
extra resource to help their children, in fact some say i give a lot of
extra freebies... too overwhelming bah. But in my case when DD1
was encountering some difficulties i met up with the teacher to help me
trouble shoot her weak areas.. The teacher not only raised it with my DD1
but DD1 came back saying teacher took the time to go thru the problem
area with the rest of the class and even paired her up with a patient mentor
buddy. DD1 was the kind who will pretend to know and hell come won't ask
for help.. bad mentality i know but had bad experience raising hand asking
for help, but kenna :rant: from this one-kind-of-pattern teacher.

I agree with you that while super compos are good model compos, how to
bring the techniques properly into the writing is important for children who
may not already know how to add them in. Fortunately for me, the current
school that my DD1 is in now... the teacher has specific assignments to
trouble shoot these common problems children usually have trouble with &
inspire them to write better. She also provides additional resource to let us
parents be in the loop of what has been covered with the children hence if
there is a need for any parent who wants to do follow up at home, we can
complement that with the added resource given by her... and if not, the
children can still manage fine on their own for she has explained the how-
to's in class with all the children during curriculum time. From the teacher's
initiatives, DD1 has recently told me she doesn't require help from me
anymore. She can attempt the work herself... and if she does make any
mistakes, her teacher WILL go through with the whole class so everyone
can learn from one another's mistakes. I went like ... wow.

[buds]

Funx3:

:congrats: on reaching 9k GrandMaster Promotion!

:thankyou:

But alamak! :slapshead:

This congratulatory note cannot move into my intro thread..

Funx3:

For A Moment, While I Scroll Down the Page, I Thought U Gonna Post a 9000 Word Write-up to Celebrate ....
Hee-Hee ....

For a moment there, you're making me conscious.. :politebleah: .. and
actually made me pause to think if i should indeed count word by word. :heresmyfish:

[corneyAmber]

Chenonceau:

Agree. You've expressed it far better than I could. In addition to the point you raised, I would add that I would be concerned if parental involvement were a MUST for a child to succeed. The moment success hinges on parental involvement, we would lose the top talent we might otherwise find from the pool of under-privileged children whose parents may not care, may be absent, may have no time, may have no money to buy another's involvement in their child's education, may be dead or may be in jail. There should be a way to ensure that schools can teach independently and sufficiently. That way, under-privileged kids can continue to have an open path to success.

I totally agree with you as well on this point. I, for one, is a mum who is happy to let the school do everything and I just provide the 3 meals, lodging and all the hygiene factors needs. The offer of parental support may just be moral support to the school to support the learning process, that is assuming the school is able to deliver this concept very well.

Lastly, I really cannot be expressing this better than the top 2% of English expert..you are too modest and over-rated my comments. :oops: I see myself only as a mother who is contented to be the mother like my mum was to me when I was growing up, ignorant of what went on in school but just provided the moral support and physical needs support for my growing up process. Unfortunately, this is really not possible these days....

[buds]

Happy Mama:

buds:

I wanted to sift the merits of when the methodology does work and truth to be told if people really do care about the under-privileged group of children... then the Teach Less Learn More allows for these children to at least play catch up.

This is a very nice way to describe them.... more compassionate and less condescending...

Well done, Buds! :celebrate: You have gained my respect! :salute:

Happy Mama, my children and i have personally volunteered with a group
of under-privileged children and if i can be honest, we have first hand
experience working with them. Being under-privileged aside... these
children have serious family issues having come from dysfunctional
families. These children didn't ask to be there. They were born into
these families. They cannot choose not to be there. But if more of
us care enough to give our time, they can be rescued... but from
my experience... they do need to want the help.

While Teach Less Learn More can help them adapt better not only academically
but also socially, these children need more. But not all of them do get more though
more was offered to them. I cite one family's example..

She has 5 children. Husband in jail, 2yrs and 11mths more to go. Child has been
forced into childcare with aid from a passionate volunteer who got her three pre
school kiddies in to a nearby centre. She cannot send for extra lessons apart from
what was offered for she has too much or rather too many also lar.. on her hands.
She also cited that more travelling will mean it is inconvenient for her and her other
children. When we shared we will provide free lunch and ensure the children will
be chauffered to a fixed pick up point close to her rented 1-rm place she calls home,
she asked her son if he wants to. :faint: Boy says, \"Mom, i will go cos you cannot
teach me. You need to take care of my baby siblings. There is free food and
i will bring it home for us to share when i come back.. so.. okay.. onz..\"

Different families have different limitations.

Everyone of us try to cope in the ways we can..
We raise flag if we have to ask for help and if help doesn't come we still
have to ensure life has to move on nevertheless but to improve without
help, while it may take more effort on our part.. let's do it cause we want
to and have to, with what we can within our means.

Sharing another experience... I have had one or two parents approach
me after parent volunteer in school who asked if i could share how i work
with my girls..

One of them, she had some problems helping her boy and so she asked if
i don't mind helping her with some of the stuff she was unsure of. I said
yes of course.

I asked why she approached me over the many parents who waited there.
Her reply. \"I scared to ask. They always discuss how their children make
unnecessary careless mistakes for tests and scold them upside down. I've
also seen them personally go up to their class teacher to speak to them
abt the marks. For me, i just need help to understand how to. My son's
teacher does help him a lot but he slow lar just like the mommy so i
saw you a few times.. see you don't mix with those parents.. and i like
how you speak with your girls.. abt school things.. i hope you can teach
me.. i want to help my son more.. sorry my english not so good.. hope u
can help me out a bit.. sorry arh trouble u.. some more u pregnant.. sorry
arh.. my husband working alone, he got retrenched so now do cleaner oni..
don't earn much lar.. cannot send tuition.. my son all LSP oso i tell him just
go, it's free.. i have to jaga 3 kids oso.. if you can help me a bit with this
bit, thank you.. thank you.. only this bit..\"

I applaud her drive to help her children in what way she can.. my heart
truly went out to her. From speaking to her i realized how i was more
fortunate.. even DD1 who was there said to me later on, \"So poor
thing yah mummy.. luckily i have u.. if her boy in my class i dun
mind to help also, but his class teacher is good.. not in banded
class but good.\"

[buds]

ksi:

Chenonceau:

Agree. You've expressed it far better than I could. In addition to the point you raised, I would add that I would be concerned if parental involvement were a MUST for a child to succeed. The moment success hinges on parental involvement, we would lose the top talent we might otherwise find from the pool of under-privileged children whose parents may not care, may be absent, may have no time, may have no money to buy another's involvement in their child's education, may be dead or may be in jail. There should be a way to ensure that schools can teach independently and sufficiently. That way, under-privileged kids can continue to have an open path to success.

I totally agree with you as well on this point. I, for one, is a mum who is happy to let the school do everything and I just provide the 3 meals, lodging and all the hygiene factors needs. The offer of parental support may just be moral support to the school to support the learning process, that is assuming the school is able to deliver this concept very well.

Lastly, I really cannot be expressing this better than the top 2% of English expert..you are too modest and over-rated my comments. :oops: I see myself only as a mother who is contented to be the mother like my mum was to me when I was growing up, ignorant of what went on in school but just provided the moral support and physical needs support for my growing up process. Unfortunately, this is really not possible these days....

Yes. She's too modest. :please:

While i'm not totally ignorant of what goes on in school, my P4 DD is
coping quite well on her own with the current school doing almost every
other thing. *:salute:* I'm blessed so i'm sharing that it IS possible...

Not every tom, dick and harriet are alike lar, ksi... teachers included.
By blanket-sweeping it is really not possible these days... good ones
like ehekhemm... me.. *shameless* :oops:... :lol: ... oso seem to
be grouped to the market-spoilers category.

The parental involvement in Teach Less Learn More isn't only solely
physical participation pe se but also consistent information with regards
to the programme itself and parents are constantly updated on what are
the activities done in the school and in the classrooms. Not all parents can
afford the time to be physically involved in these initiatives of opening the
classroom doors for them but it is not a compulsory component... hence
the information shared by the school via school website (some with pix
and videos)... email updates, pictures of our children at work, and their
actual work itself help parents better understand the Teach Less Learn
More method. For us who can spend some time off to join the school
initiatives, we are relishing the opportunities... for in the old school
ways, parents were almost unwelcomed in school.

Under-privileged kids do get extra help these days and if they want it hard
enough, they too CAN achieve the same as the rest of the privileged ones.

All children who have the \"want it\" attitude, will at no qualms... go get it...
with presence of support or not... of whatever kind available... including
parental ones. This is a character trait that i hope for my girls to have &
still hoping and yes.. still working on it.