Petition to Review the Singapore Education System
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Chenonceau:
:rotflmao:
Those nuts dun look like shells... :rotflmao:buds:
Yeh Chenonceau, 2ppaamm is great with the nutshells.. ie. all in a nutshell.
Chenonceau:
There's always a first time to everything isn't it?But seriously, the petition could be better written. Pity one can't change a petition after it has been signed. Especially since with the various different discussions that took place here... collective thinking (and my own) has also evolved and sharpened too.
The evolvement and sharpened thoughts just help to put the petition in
better shape duncha think? The collective thinking definitely contributed
to quite a lot for more heads are better than one. Can the petition allow
(at this stage) for some teeny changes or inputs say... additonal thoughts
on ideas to better the system as the discussions here evolve, in the event
that more constructive thoughts spring to mind?Chenonceau:
Always... :love:And Pam's post really says many things well.
She will be dearly missed.. :snuggles: -
buds:
O, you won't miss me... I have chosen an apartment with free internet access. Maybe I'll have more time to think and write better... :scared:
Always... :love:
She will be dearly missed.. :snuggles: -
2ppaamm:
Just one question: what is the purpose of working? Many years ago, when I was a student, we did not get any mark for intermediary steps. If we got the answer correct, we scored full marks. Then, in the late 70s, they told us to show working, in case we forgot our steps, we could still get partial marks if our steps made sense.NickleBee Tutors:
1)What does the ratio signify? Is he referring to Weight or Price of fruits? As long as your son had placed the label \"Ratio of cost of 1 kg of Pear to 1 kg of Apple\" he would have made his working much clearer and everything would have been fine. But as he didn't do so, the teacher would have to assume that he was referring to the weight of the fruits, had mis-read the question and inverted the ratio which would have made his whole working based on a fallacy which would have voided his marks.
2) What does the dotted line between the 2 ratios signify? Is it \"Before\" and \"After\"? are the 2 ratios even comparable with each other? And what does $18 (15 parts) mean? $18 times 15 parts? Where did the parts come from? Are they 2 separate and unrelated numbers? No one can tell just by looking at your son's answer.
I can see that what your son was trying to say was that :
Since 1 kg of Pear costs 3 units, 2 Kg of pears would cost 6 units
Since 1 kg of Apples costs 2 units, 4.5 kg of apples would cost 9 units.
Thus 2kg Pear + 4.5kg Apples => 15 units => $18
If he had just written his thought process down along these lines, he would have received the full marks for such a question.
However as he did not do proper labelling and write up proper workings, he failed to bring his logic/thought process across satisfactorily to the marker. As the marker cannot see how your son arrived at his solution in a satisfactory manner, they cannot give him method marks.
So this had nothing to do with \"thinking skills, creativity or problem solving skills\" or specific \"methodontology\". This is simply a case of your son knowing how to do the question yet failing to communicate his methods across adequately to the marker. For students like this, i tell them that the first thing all mathematics students learn is the bringing of mathematical workings and ideas across to another person clearly and logically. If even great mathematicians were trained to do so when they were young, i see no reason why primary school students cannot write down the ideas in their heads onto the exam paper clearly and in a sequential manner.)[/color]
Cost of 9 parts -> 18/15 x 9 = $10.80
Cost of 2 parts -> $10.80 x 2/9 = $2.40
Cost of 1 kg of apples is $2.40
As for the son's classmate's working,
DS1's classmate's ANSWER:
1 unit -> 1 kg pear + 1.5 apples (Good)
2 units + 1.5 kg apples ($18) -> 2 kg pears + 4.5 kg apples
(Here, he showed that he's using the 1 unit from the above statement to make a substitution. although I would not have recommended the bracketed $18. This would have been better
2 units + 1.5 kg apples -> 2 kg pears + 4.5 kg apples -> $18)
2 units -> 2 kg pear -> 3 Kg apple (the marker put a tick here)
(Good, He shows understanding that if 1 kg of pears cost as much as 1.5 kg of apples, 2 kg of pears would costs as much as 3 kg apples. Following which he substituted 2kg of pears with 3 kg of apples)
$18 - 1.5 kg =
(I have no idea what this is)
1.5 kg apples -> $18 / 5 = 3.60
(Ah he skipped a step here. I would have preferred if he had written \"Costs of 2 kg of pear = Cost of 3 kg apples
Since, 2 kg pear + 4.5 kg apple -> $18
Therefore 3kg apple + 4.5 kg apple -> $18)
0.5 kg apples -> 3.60 / 3 = 1.20
1 kg apples -> 1.20 x 2 = $2.40
1 kg of apples cost $2.40. (another tick here)
Although this student had missed a step, it did not impeded the overall flow of information from the student to the teacher. The teacher could see that he had made the logic step that \"2 kg of pears would costs as much as 3 kg apples\" which would be crucial to solving the problem. From there onwards, the rest is simple arithematic.
I hope this has been useful.
Yours
Zhou Shicai
NickleBee Tutors
Have we forgotten what the purpose of steps? Why penalize when the steps don't make sense to the marker? Of course, the safest way is to learn to do the 'standard' way. (which you marked 'good' every step and agreed to give full marks even though there were 2 errors) Which is what I told my son to do ultimately. Did you credit the kids for a shorter or more innovative method? Isn't that the problem with the education system? The one who has the standard formula wins, not the one who uses more research and unconventional ways.
If I want to pick (which I don't feel like doing now), I can ask the exact same questions you did about both answers, e.g. what does 1 unit imply? weight or price or number of fruit? See, you did not ask because his answer is so standard you could derive. How is a child going to know when the marker can derive and when the marker could not, unless he already knew what the standard answer was... from tuition.
Hi 2ppaamm,
The purpose of working is to show how you came by your final solution.
Off hand, i can think of 3 reasons for workings.
1) It encourages the child to think through the question and approach tough questions in a sequential manner whereby he would build upon his previous statements/workings/though process (in that question) until he finally derives the answer. Also, when the child has finished the question, it would be easier for him to look back and reflect/check on his workings.
2) It allows the teacher to evaluate if the child truly comprehends and understands the question in such a way that would allow the child to solve it using the available information from the question. This is much fairer than say, basing all the marks on the final answer, which would unfairly penalize those who understood and grasp the concept of the question yet made a careless mistake towards the end. In such a case, the teacher can follow the child's train of logic from the working and award method marks appropriately.
3) Prevents cheating. Who is to say that child with 9 out of 10 of the final answers correct (but not a working/statement in sight to prove that he has actually attempted the question) is a genius or has copied the answers from the people around him?
MOE does not penalize kids if their method do not make sense to the marker. It is simply the fact that the marker (or head marker if the script is bumped up to them) cannot determine if your child has come about the answer through a mathematically correct method (which can be assessed if the workings are listed out logically and clearly) or if the child has copied or guessed the answer without proper understanding or thinking through the question. If MOE give marks to everyone based on the correct answer even if the marker cannot be sure child actually deserves the marks, then won't it make a mockery of our system?
Anyway, i have looked through my previous post and i did not mention anywhere that i would have given your son's classmate full marks. And my \"good\" is usually written if i can see the thought process of the child and he has done it with proper labellings/logical statements which enables the marker to follow exactly what he is doing. I have also highlighted 2 statements in your son's classmate working which i felt could be further improved on but i fail to see any fatal logic fallacies which would have prevented him from solving the question. Perhaps you could highlight them out to me as an academic exercise?
I have also metioned in my post that i found your son's solution to be elegant (and as i said before, i love elegant solutions) and it takes someone of a certain intellect to approach the question from this manner (anyway your son's method is known as the \"unitary\" method and its been taught by schools teachers in MOE schools for years. There's nothing new or innovative/unconventional about it. My students use it frequently and they have no problems with their teachers regarding usage of such a method. In fact most schools teach the Unitary Method alongside Models and whats not nowadays!) My only quibble with your son's method is that it does not have proper labellings and appropriate statements/explainations to show exactly how he came about his answer which made his workings ambivalent at best as the teacher cannot decide on what his units in the ratio actually mean, Cost or Weight? I have had written out a set of 3 statements in my previous post which is a correction of sorts for his workings as they are clearer and allows the examiner to see how i came about the answer yet i was using your son's method (or the unitary method as its called) all along.
The education system is looking for the ability of students to read and understand mathematical questions, identify the necessary information/concepts required to solve the question, work out any mathematically correct solution and present it in a suitable manner such that i can be understood by another person. In the real world, it would be called \"problem solving\" which is a skillset required in university, everyday life and especially so in the business world. That's all there is to it, MOE does not penalize unconvention/quirky/fast methods but they have to draw a line at workings which are not presented well enough as anyone can then write a series of numbers, get a correct final answer and claim that his technique is so special it can only be understood by himself. How then can we verfiy that he really understands the question?
Yours
Zhou Shicai
NickleBee Tutors -
ksi:
DS1's compositions are fun to read and have a lot of twists and turns and read like an adventure, even his teachers said so, but he doesn't score high. So he gets very good comments, even for his way of describing things etc, but his compos were never published. In sec school, though, his English teacher in RI enjoyed his writing style and told us and other people so. But he still did not score high, because he refused to follow conventional way and 'write within the box'.2ppaamm:
My child's creative writing was killed in the system, even enrichment centers go the presumably MOE way. All ending must be standard, cookie cutter style for ease of marking. The tr said this to me \"I love your child's story and creativity and the great ideas in the story development are fantastic but school will not accept it even it is not out of point. She has to keep to exam style. She is potentially a great writer one day but please learn the school's way now.\" she urged. do you think my child will ever get a chance to unleash her potential if she were to keep writing this standard way? My toes are laughing. So she got a poor score despite a great story. I just feel sorry for her. :sad: Next lesson she wrote according to what they wanted, cookie cutter, she scored highest in class but she came home mocking at her own compo. She said she copied so much and she got highest marks!!!! My toes laughed again. She concluded herself that she is good at copying. That was last year. This year, she had a change of tr so she did an experiment. Same thing happens so now she copies copies copies to keep scores high, sad? Very. :slapshead:
This system is indeed a learning spirit killer.
DD1 is much less interesting. Her stories are less creative but her vocabulary and sentences are so well structured. Her writing is conformed to style because she has limited ideas to write anyway, but they were sufficient. Her compos were always circulated in the school as sample essays.
When I grow up :evil: I want to write like DS1. Just that I'll never be able to have that kind of creativity. It can't be learned. DD1's compos are good too, but I think I can learn those vocabs and sentences if given time. DD1 was the top student in her P6 cohort for English, and her teachers still remembers her to this day. DS1 - though he could write a 6 chapters novel in K2, he was nowhere for English.... hehe, I refused to teach him cliche. -
2ppaamm:
Hoh yeah then! :celebrate:
O, you won't miss me... I have chosen an apartment with free internet access. Maybe I'll have more time to think and write better... :scared:buds:
Always... :love:
She will be dearly missed.. :snuggles:
Love reading your postings and Chenonceau's..
Helps me buck up my England.
Yes.. hoping
to catch up with that same train you guys are on.
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At times, I feel that the issue is not at MOE level, it is the school itself but MOE has to be vigilant to monitor and set the school to handle matters properly instead of going round agonizing both children and parents. Actually all these issues can be resolved easily if we have strong leadership who knows how to manage these issues and make the changes in the school. For example in chenon’s case, if the tr is willing to partner with the parents to uncover interesting questions which the children could be taught, does it not benefit all children? and in 2ppaamm’s case, it does not take much to look into a special solution especially from a precocious child who has consistently demonstrated performance. this, to me is real talent management, you don’t need a formal programme to do talent management. Everyone stands to benefit from a new solution, that is how things are invented!!!
Sometimes I am so appalled at the answers given to parents to brush aside
a rejected answer that is not in the answer key. It insults intelligence. To add further insult to injury they start to ostracise the child in school, exactly
what 2ppaamm has detailed in her writeup. I think MOE should put a stop
to such adult bully tactics on the children. The child gets block from
opportunities in the school even if they qualify or given the cold shoulder or
they can be designed not to qualify with strict marking and the child is defenseless. Can MOE look into such unhealthy practices and put a stop to
this? I can understand why 2ppaamm chooses to uproot themselves from
the education system here. Parents should not suffer in silence. -
2ppaamm is one of those lucky ones who has the choice to uproot.
Those like my children and i, hafta just stay behind and conform. :spank: -
logic
reason
think about it -
buds:
Exactly what the petition is about, give us a choice to conform(since majority will not hv a choice to uproot) but conform reasonably.2ppaamm is one of those lucky ones who has the choice to uproot.
Those like my children and i, hafta just stay behind and conform. :spank:
But thanks to 2ppaamm for her support in this. -
NickleBee Tutors:
This is new to me. Unitary method. Perhaps because I have no more kids in upper primary. Do all schools teach that or only tuition centers? Also, how would a kid who has never been taught a unitary method know how to present his answers in a logical way using this method, what if he derived this method by himself and was not taught, how would he know how to present it logically?anyway your son's method is known as the \"unitary\" method and its been taught by schools teachers in MOE schools for years. There's nothing new or innovative/unconventional about it. My students use it frequently and they have no problems with their teachers regarding usage of such a method. In fact most schools teach the Unitary Method alongside Models and whats not nowadays!)
Yours
Zhou Shicai
NickleBee Tutors
How come I can understand his working and not the teachers?
How lucky must a student be to be able to guess the correct answer like this?
How blind the invigilator must be to allow a student to copy and not catch him?
Even if it were to be guess and check, surely the student must be marked correct?
Actually, your answers and explanations are not new to me. I have been a mother for too long and listened to this many times. I think you have explained yourself very well, and I agree with your point. But I just cannot agree there's just ONE way of doing things. That ONE way is, show your working step by step so I can understand. Correct means correct lah.
One more thing. Not everyone thinks sequentially.
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