Petition to Review the Singapore Education System
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2ppaamm:
Hoh yeah then! :celebrate:
O, you won't miss me... I have chosen an apartment with free internet access. Maybe I'll have more time to think and write better... :scared:buds:
Always... :love:
She will be dearly missed.. :snuggles:
Love reading your postings and Chenonceau's..
Helps me buck up my England.
Yes.. hoping
to catch up with that same train you guys are on.
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At times, I feel that the issue is not at MOE level, it is the school itself but MOE has to be vigilant to monitor and set the school to handle matters properly instead of going round agonizing both children and parents. Actually all these issues can be resolved easily if we have strong leadership who knows how to manage these issues and make the changes in the school. For example in chenon’s case, if the tr is willing to partner with the parents to uncover interesting questions which the children could be taught, does it not benefit all children? and in 2ppaamm’s case, it does not take much to look into a special solution especially from a precocious child who has consistently demonstrated performance. this, to me is real talent management, you don’t need a formal programme to do talent management. Everyone stands to benefit from a new solution, that is how things are invented!!!
Sometimes I am so appalled at the answers given to parents to brush aside
a rejected answer that is not in the answer key. It insults intelligence. To add further insult to injury they start to ostracise the child in school, exactly
what 2ppaamm has detailed in her writeup. I think MOE should put a stop
to such adult bully tactics on the children. The child gets block from
opportunities in the school even if they qualify or given the cold shoulder or
they can be designed not to qualify with strict marking and the child is defenseless. Can MOE look into such unhealthy practices and put a stop to
this? I can understand why 2ppaamm chooses to uproot themselves from
the education system here. Parents should not suffer in silence. -
2ppaamm is one of those lucky ones who has the choice to uproot.
Those like my children and i, hafta just stay behind and conform. :spank: -
logic
reason
think about it -
buds:
Exactly what the petition is about, give us a choice to conform(since majority will not hv a choice to uproot) but conform reasonably.2ppaamm is one of those lucky ones who has the choice to uproot.
Those like my children and i, hafta just stay behind and conform. :spank:
But thanks to 2ppaamm for her support in this. -
NickleBee Tutors:
This is new to me. Unitary method. Perhaps because I have no more kids in upper primary. Do all schools teach that or only tuition centers? Also, how would a kid who has never been taught a unitary method know how to present his answers in a logical way using this method, what if he derived this method by himself and was not taught, how would he know how to present it logically?anyway your son's method is known as the \"unitary\" method and its been taught by schools teachers in MOE schools for years. There's nothing new or innovative/unconventional about it. My students use it frequently and they have no problems with their teachers regarding usage of such a method. In fact most schools teach the Unitary Method alongside Models and whats not nowadays!)
Yours
Zhou Shicai
NickleBee Tutors
How come I can understand his working and not the teachers?
How lucky must a student be to be able to guess the correct answer like this?
How blind the invigilator must be to allow a student to copy and not catch him?
Even if it were to be guess and check, surely the student must be marked correct?
Actually, your answers and explanations are not new to me. I have been a mother for too long and listened to this many times. I think you have explained yourself very well, and I agree with your point. But I just cannot agree there's just ONE way of doing things. That ONE way is, show your working step by step so I can understand. Correct means correct lah.
One more thing. Not everyone thinks sequentially. -
verykiasu2010:
Very cheeemmm, what does this mean har?logic
reason
think about it -
buds:
Website won't allow changes... must ask for special permission. Even then, I think one shouldn't change the petition at all because people signed what they read... and after they sign, then I change, is quite disrespectful and destroys the integrity of the petition process.Can the petition allow
(at this stage) for some teeny changes or inputs say... additonal thoughts
on ideas to better the system as the discussions here evolve, in the event
that more constructive thoughts spring to mind?
People can come back and say they no longer agree and that the petition has changed in a way that they no longer support. Best is to send the petition link together with this thread link where people have come up with dissenting views, and present the full discussion as is - without any censorship on my part.
Like Edureach says, he is an ordinary fellow and I am an ordinary gal. My views should not take precedence over another's views. Let the thread stand for itself and may the best ideas win. -
Chenonceau:
What is the objective of the petition? I feel that if through this process, you can get a dialogue with the ministry, that will be a good start. If we manage to get that dialogue going, you can always gather more points and bring them out at that time.
Website won't allow changes... must ask for special permission. Even then, I think one shouldn't change the petition at all because people signed what they read... and after they sign, then I change, is quite disrespectful and destroys the integrity of the petition process.buds:
Can the petition allow
(at this stage) for some teeny changes or inputs say... additonal thoughts
on ideas to better the system as the discussions here evolve, in the event
that more constructive thoughts spring to mind?
People can come back and say they no longer agree and that the petition has changed in a way that they no longer support. Best is to send the petition link together with this thread link where people have come up with dissenting views, and present the full discussion as is - without any censorship on my part.
Like Edureach says, he is an ordinary fellow and I am an ordinary gal. My views should not take precedence over another's views. Let the thread stand for itself and may the best ideas win.
Or it is to ask for changes in these areas only? Perhaps we can lobby for a committee or something of parents who form as a consultation/feedback panel for the ministry. That would be a good outcome too. Basically, I think it is better to have a continual process rather than a one time action. With the former, parents can fine tune the education system together with MOE. I know I sound too idealistic, but hey, we can dream big dreams, right? -
NickleBee Tutors:
I think the mistake in the friend's answer is that the 2 units in the first statement and second statement are inconsistent with each other.
Hi 2ppaamm,2ppaamm:
The year was 2005, and DS1 was only in P5. He came home with his SA2 Maths paper with a score less than 90, the lowest he had ever obtained for Math, and he was quite upset. I spotted a few errors in the marking, a total of about 7 marks. I sent him back to school with the paper to be checked and confident it would be regraded. After many weeks, he came home with the same marking errors after seeing his form teacher, Maths teacher and marking teacher, and he could not explain to me why because he did not understand why.
I then guided him to speak to the Math HOD in the school. My son came home that day and told me that the Maths HOD agreed that his solution was right, but nothing could be changed because \"it was too late\", the marks were already submitted to MOE. DS1 cried in school that day upon hearing this.
Since I knew the principal personally and was always impressed with the way he conducted himself and ran the school, I was sure he would right any wrong. Had it been another school principal, I would have just let the situation go. I knew any other principal would not have 'dared' to own the mistake. The principal did not disappoint me. He arranged for a meeting. Without even looking at DS1's solution, he told me that they were the experts and their decision should be final. It did not matter that my first degree was in Maths, and was teaching Statistics in a teritiary institution at that time. Their decision was final, I was told.
Not contented with the school's reply, I went on to seek four other independent opinions. I wrote to MOE, a website in States, the writer of the textbook the school was using, and a former Maths HOD in RGS. All them agreed that DS1's solution was correct. I then wrote to inform the school. The school was not interested in any other replies except MOE's. You can find DS1's answer to the question and MOE's reply at the end of this post.
I could not understand why ALL the teachers could not understand his working and solution, when it was crystal clear to me that his solution was correct. Perhaps it was because he had no tuition and did not know a standard answer. I therefore called up a good friend whose son was in the same class. She forwarded her son's answer to me. Which can be found at the end of this post as well. To my amazement, his answer was not exactly correct but he was given the full credit for this question (can you spot the error?).
The principal was fuming mad when I pointed out the marking errors to him, I believe he thought I was all out to look for an error. I wasn't, that was the only other student's paper I looked at, and it happened that there was a marking error. The school then decided that no one could decide if my son's answer was right except a professor from NIE, whose name was never revealed to me. The next time I asked, the Vice-Principal told me that professor said it was wrong because there could never be a fraction of two ratios. (But that wasn't a fraction; he drew a line across his answer). I did not bother to argue anymore, not because I agreed, but because I saw no point in pursuing this matter further. The school was more interested at protecting its position with MOE than ensuring a child was given due credit for his work. Bottomline: My son's answer was correct and he was not given a single mark because teachers could not comprehend his steps. The school admitted to the two other marking errors, but conveniently left his marks unchanged. The marking error on his friend's paper was never corrected as well. The records at MOE was therefore left in tact.
After the whole incident, my son approached me for a favour. He told me never to meddle with his work again. He told me he could fend for himself and this whole episode only made him unpopular among his teachers. (He was a very popular student.) I agreed.
Having looked at the 'model' answer, I finally understood what this education system wanted. They did not want creativity, they did not want a short method or an alternative method. They wanted a typical way of solving a question, an easy way for teachers to award marks. I then told my son to stop spending time to think up clever and innovative problem solving methods for standard questions and use tried and tested methods teachers are familiar with to solve. I also spent two weeks teaching him a few standard tricks I knew would help him solve all problems at PSLE level. That's about all the coaching he needed for PSLE Maths.
The next year, I met the principal again during the school's sport carnival. My son was participating in the competition. He won six gold medals at the meet. For each, he went forward to receive the medal. Every single time he was there to collect the medal, the crowd would clap or cheer. The principal would either be touching his nose, rubbing his eyes, or looking elsewhere. He made it a point not to clap even once in the six times my son went up to get his medals. I had forgotten the whole incident. He had not.
During the P6 prelims, DS1 scored 99.5% for his prelims exam. The only student out of two schools (including GEPers) who scored full marks (rounded up) in the cohort. It was a difficult paper. I went on and taught a few more students the same tricks. All those I taught (free) including my children, obtained A* for PSLE. It was not thinking skills, creativity or problem solving skills the markers wanted. They wanted to have a way to award marks. I found a methodology! I helped a few students scored well for PSLE Maths and got many thank you notes from their parents, but I also killed their creativity along the way.
The principal was promoted and became a secondary school principal in 2008.
Here's the question and how my son answered it:
QUESTION:
1 kg of pears cost as much as 1.5 kg of apples. Mother spent $18 on 2 kg of pears and 4.5 kg of apples. What is the cost of 1 kg of apples?
DS1's ANSWER:
Pears : Apples
3:2
----------------------
6: 9
[$18 (15 parts)]
Cost of 9 parts -> 18/15 x 9 = $10.80
Cost of 2 parts -> $10.80 x 2/9 = $2.40
Cost of 1 kg of apples is $2.40
RESPONSE from MOE:
The solution is correct.
You may want to clarify with the person who said that the answer was wrong to find out more. Regards,
Mdm TSH Curriculum Planning Officer/Mathematics
Curriculum Planning & Development Division § Ministry of Education,
Singapore § Tel +65 6 879 6599
http://www.moe.gov.sg/
DS1's classmate's ANSWER:
1 unit -> 1 kg pear + 1.5 apples
2 units + 1.5 kg apples ($18) -> 2 kg pears + 4.5 kg apples
2 units -> 2 kg pear -> 3 Kg apple (the marker put a tick here)
$18 - 1.5 kg =
1.5 kg apples -> $18 / 5 = 3.60
0.5 kg apples -> 3.60 / 3 = 1.20
1 kg apples -> 1.20 x 2 = $2.40
1 kg of apples cost $2.40. (another tick here)
Your son's answer is correct however he could have expressed his \"thought process\" on how he arrived at the answer in a better way. What teachers are marking for is the thought process and not specific methods per se. MOE teachers are trained to accept any mathematical methods that are logical and mathematically correct. As long as you are able to show satisfactorily how you arrived at the answer in a clear and logical manner, the teacher has to give the marks.
The problem with your son's answer is that although it is a very simple and elegant solution (and I love elegant maths solutions), he did not have the proper labels and statements to show precisely how his thought process led him to the answer.
DS1's ANSWER:
Pears : Apples
3:2
----------------------
6: 9
[$18 (15 parts)]
(my comments :
1)What does the ratio signify? Is he referring to Weight or Price of fruits? As long as your son had placed the label \"Ratio of cost of 1 kg of Pear to 1 kg of Apple\" he would have made his working much clearer and everything would have been fine. But as he didn't do so, the teacher would have to assume that he was referring to the weight of the fruits, had mis-read the question and inverted the ratio which would have made his whole working based on a fallacy which would have voided his marks.
2) What does the dotted line between the 2 ratios signify? Is it \"Before\" and \"After\"? are the 2 ratios even comparable with each other? And what does $18 (15 parts) mean? $18 times 15 parts? Where did the parts come from? Are they 2 separate and unrelated numbers? No one can tell just by looking at your son's answer.
I can see that what your son was trying to say was that :
Since 1 kg of Pear costs 3 units, 2 Kg of pears would cost 6 units
Since 1 kg of Apples costs 2 units, 4.5 kg of apples would cost 9 units.
Thus 2kg Pear + 4.5kg Apples => 15 units => $18
If he had just written his thought process down along these lines, he would have received the full marks for such a question.
However as he did not do proper labelling and write up proper workings, he failed to bring his logic/thought process across satisfactorily to the marker. As the marker cannot see how your son arrived at his solution in a satisfactory manner, they cannot give him method marks.
So this had nothing to do with \"thinking skills, creativity or problem solving skills\" or specific \"methodontology\". This is simply a case of your son knowing how to do the question yet failing to communicate his methods across adequately to the marker. For students like this, i tell them that the first thing all mathematics students learn is the bringing of mathematical workings and ideas across to another person clearly and logically. If even great mathematicians were trained to do so when they were young, i see no reason why primary school students cannot write down the ideas in their heads onto the exam paper clearly and in a sequential manner.)
Cost of 9 parts -> 18/15 x 9 = $10.80
Cost of 2 parts -> $10.80 x 2/9 = $2.40
Cost of 1 kg of apples is $2.40
As for the son's classmate's working,
DS1's classmate's ANSWER:
1 unit -> 1 kg pear + 1.5 apples (Good)
2 units + 1.5 kg apples ($18) -> 2 kg pears + 4.5 kg apples
(Here, he showed that he's using the 1 unit from the above statement to make a substitution. although I would not have recommended the bracketed $18. This would have been better
2 units + 1.5 kg apples -> 2 kg pears + 4.5 kg apples -> $18)
2 units -> 2 kg pear -> 3 Kg apple (the marker put a tick here)
(Good, He shows understanding that if 1 kg of pears cost as much as 1.5 kg of apples, 2 kg of pears would costs as much as 3 kg apples. Following which he substituted 2kg of pears with 3 kg of apples)
$18 - 1.5 kg =
(I have no idea what this is)
1.5 kg apples -> $18 / 5 = 3.60(Ah he skipped a step here. I would have preferred if he had written \"Costs of 2 kg of pear = Cost of 3 kg apples
Since, 2 kg pear + 4.5 kg apple -> $18
Therefore 3kg apple + 4.5 kg apple -> $18)
0.5 kg apples -> 3.60 / 3 = 1.20
1 kg apples -> 1.20 x 2 = $2.40
1 kg of apples cost $2.40. (another tick here)
Although this student had missed a step, it did not impeded the overall flow of information from the student to the teacher. The teacher could see that he had made the logic step that \"2 kg of pears would costs as much as 3 kg apples\" which would be crucial to solving the problem. From there onwards, the rest is simple arithematic.
I hope this has been useful.
Yours
Zhou Shicai
NickleBee Tutors
Also, in your explanation above, actually it should be the cost of 4.5kg of apples is equal to the cost of 3 kg of pears, and that brings us to $18/5 = $3.60 for every kg of pear in the statement
2kg of pears + 4.5kg of apples = $18
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