Petition to Review the Singapore Education System

[jedamum]

hi Chen and ksi,

maybe i should come back to comment after my son get hit by the reality (of being cornered) in P4/P5. :oops:
maybe all secondary school posting should go DSA (via teacher recommendation/CCA portfolio). not only first tier/niche CCA secondary school. Maybe all/more primary schools should go affiliated/brothers-sisters school. :dancing:
(maybe already suggested, but this thread is too long. :oops: again).

[Chenonceau]

jedamum:

Chenonceau:

I thought of that but did not want to post because I thought it would be good to have more idea generation at this point.

:scared: :siam: :peekaboo:

Eeeeeeeeks! Din mean to scare people. Sorry! Sorry! Sorry! Don't go away. Stay around and play some more!! Was just trying to clarify a point.

And you did make a very valid point and raised another that allowed us to clarify that we're trying to move ahead, not lynch people.

[Chenonceau]

jedamum:

hi Chen and ksi,

maybe i should come back to comment after my son get hit by the reality (of being cornered) in P4/P5. :oops:
maybe all secondary school posting should go DSA (via teacher recommendation/CCA portfolio). not only first tier/niche CCA secondary school. Maybe all/more primary schools should go affiliated/brothers-sisters school. :dancing:
(maybe already suggested, but this thread is too long. :oops: again).

If you had asked me last December, I would've told you we have the BEST system in the world. I only started jumping when I realised that the school was testing stuff not taught before, and my son was FAILING even though he had been a 90+ student the year before.

I know they do that in university. You're supposed to learn externally in uni. But in primary school? My daughter flunked out in secondary 1 so often she spent every alternate weekend crying. I batted not an eyelid. I told her that failure teaches success important for success? She was a teen after all.

But my son is only 10. It is only primary school.

[corneyAmber]

2ppaamm:

I also agree it is not a blaming session. However, back to my culture thingy. No matter how we put it, the educators tend to believe that if we propose alternatives, it is a reflection of their abilities. I have tried to say things in many different ways, using analogy, persuading, etc. At the end of the day, once you disagree, you are against them. I think our educators need to learn how to disagree, and learn that they can be wrong, too. At this point, I think their pride is too big. Again, this is not a blaming session. This is an inherent and culture problem that needs education.

Yes, hopefully with this GE and a changing mindset happening now to be more receptive towards feedback is a good sign that this education issue will be taken up for review. My personal experience in school resonates with what you have mentioned above. When I gave feedback on certain weakness in a system 2 years ago, it was not taken seriously for change. I am not sure if they had a constraint then or like what you say a cultural thingy about reflection of abilities but I am happy to inform that they have taken up the issue seriously this year for discussion for improvement. Perhaps what they need is time and right people to look into it.

[buds]

jedamum:

ksi:

This is one statistics I would like the MOE to establish. Is the whole nation suffering tough exams in PSLE just because of 10-15% of the cohort are really so outstanding that it is difficult to rank them meaningfully for secondary school placement to top-notch popular secondary schools which is about 7-10 schools?


If that is the case, perhaps offer a choice of exam papers. Consider an exam where people are willing to go to second-tier-onwards seondary schools and this exam is something suited for the mass as a \"main\" paper(\"M\" paper). Another optional exam of \"special\" papers can be given to the children who can be stretched and they get to choose the premium schools based on the \"M\" paper plus the \"S\" paper results. So it
(a) becomes a choice for parents and children who want and can pursue difficult questions by choice in a paper to increase the chance of getting into a premium school, these should be the pool of schools with high COP. Setting the expectation right upfront on the type of schools possible based on the types of exams. Why try to do everything one size fits all?
(b) does not demoralise majority of children with a tough paper by taking away the trauma of a tough paper and the fun of learning. Test must match learning process and not trip the kids.
(c) provides a learning option within the school by special teachers who can coach children who opted for the sitting of the \"S\" papers in line with the \"S\" paper approach. Do not throw them into the deep end without such a teaching option, otherwise this will fail again. Even if it means outsourcing, the school can do the outsource to enrichment centres who can handle such \"S\" papers. So the real education and the \"Shadow education\" can co-exist. They do now too except that the end objective is a very general PSLE where everyone is trying to shoot for the bulls-eye, not knowing where is the limit.

Now if there are kiasu parents who want to push ahead with the \"S\" papers even if the child does not have the calibre, it is their perogative, the consequence is if the \"S\" paper result is not good enough, the placement of the secondary schools will be based on the master paper's results and the child is made to learn more and do more exam at their own choice. Well, learning extra is never wasted if an immediate outcome is not associated.

So the \"S\" papers results act as a supplement score for entry into the premium secondary school.

So in this way, give parents and children the choice if they want to go through a rigorous exam routine or not instead of forcing 50k children to do the same thing which is of little value to the 80-90% of kids if they have no ambition to go to a highly premium school and yet have to suffer a traumatic exam with questions that they have never been taught before. I believe this also eases the teaching process and makes teachers happier. If not all 50k children in a cohort are ready for the tough process, then let the parents decide if their children can be pushed forward. At the end of the day, people want a choice to live a balanced and happy life. The 10% who opt for this are also happy people if they have the calibre to do it, then another 10% who opt for it without the calibre to handle such \"S\" papers but willing to give it a shot, it is BY CHOICE. Personally, I believe it would reduce the amount of grievances to 10% of people who want to attempt and at least this 10% get into such exams consciously and it is no longer a system issue.

Now if this progresses to the level whereby 80% of the parents are pushing their children to go for the \"S\" paper, then it is not an issue of the MOE system anymore, a choice has been given but everyone is opting to go down the tougher path to squeeze into the limited resources of premium schools. Case closed and build more good schools to pander to the demand or parents get real?

Our current systerm operates too much on a secrecy mode, the T-score, the quiet streaming criteria in schools and top/best classes, the special selection of children for special programs or supplementary classes offered in schools. I know some schools operate this way, shielding alot of info from anxious parents and it is annoying. Place all the cards on the table for people to make their own choices. I believe Singaporean parents have now matured to a level that they can make a choice.

If MOE finds this feasible, please do a detail feasibility study first, I don't want to be a hero who creates a future that spells zero for any children if this idea is not feasible. :lol: I am just a simple parent who wants teaching and exam to be matching in standards and face a society with less stressed faces around me. As of now, my child is not suffering in the system in terms of grades at all but the learning environment irks me and some practices. We know how to avoid certain pitfalls but not everyone knows.

As I mentioned before, when we solve any trouble, new trouble may surface. With this model, we may possibly \"regress\" into a less goal-getting society which our government actually does not want us to be but if kiasuism continues to burn in us, that would be the very spirit to sustain this model.

Lastly, no system will satisfy everyone....so one other way to vary the exam game is perhaps have graded \"S\" papers, S1, S2..
The more levels a child chooses to clear well, the higher chance to get into a desired school. I believe this will keep all levels of gifted, advanced, high ability kids happy and leave the mass happy too. Using this \"S\" paper approach, MOE can pander to the various cohort's brain strength, especially now with so many brain training programmes in the market and higher educated parents(more GEP parents too), I foresee more and more \"SPECIAL\" children coming out of the product of brain training programmes and better educated parents and the pressure becomes greater at the top. Yet we cannot ignore the mass nor their suffering as the pressure cascades down and they should not be left behind in esteem due to tough exams being the majority.

Hope I am making sense. :oops:

Hi ksi,
When i read the above, this thought immediately flashed through my mind; the above system is similar to the subject banding that MOE is now adopting that indirectly 'forces' students that are currently weak in subjects during P4/P5 to take foundation subjects with the 'good intention' of a guaranteed a secondary placement (albeit via Normal Acad/Tech route) but make it an uphill task for those taking foundation subjects who wanted to take a shot at going to Express stream.
With the above system, there will still be schools that wish to hit a certain KPIs and have the portfolio of having the 30-40% of students sitting for 'Higher Math/Higher Science/Higher English' etc. Schools with only a handful of students eligible to sit for such papers will similarly will not be able to 'impress' parents and this will be reflected in the P1 registration (deja vu).
It is all about expectations. If parents are not able to resist temptation and want to join the rat race, why blame the system? There is a place in the system that children can enjoy schooling and childhood, without stress in trying to get into first tier secondary school ; that place is call 'not-the-top-class-in-the-neighourhood-school'.

:goodpost: jedamum..

I understand where you're coming from as my DD1 is at this phase now..

[buds]

2ppaamm:

I also agree it is not a blaming session. However, back to my culture thingy. No matter how we put it, the educators tend to believe that if we propose alternatives, it is a reflection of their abilities. I have tried to say things in many different ways, using analogy, persuading, etc. At the end of the day, once you disagree, you are against them. I think our educators need to learn how to disagree, and learn that they can be wrong, too. At this point, I think their pride is too big. Again, this is not a blaming session. This is an inherent and culture problem that needs education.

Though there are one too many educators who fit into this culture you speak
of.. there are also extraordinary ones who make the difference. :love:

From my experience, i've met a good handful. Not afraid to apologize when
a mistake is made.. willing to brainstorm over a fix.. will go all out to fix
something that was in a fix.. request for us to share our thoughts on
plans moving forward or any issues if any.. :celebrate:

We (my family) enjoyed the rapport i've had with them immensely and it has
made school going even happier for the girls as well. Perhaps another area to
look into is how we can/should approach the matter at hand..

Like, :idea:... to request instead of demand..
to ask; intead of tell.. to feedback instead of
complain.. or to care to share instead of why
doncha give.. kinda approach.



Kindness begets kindness, no?

Cos teachers are overwhelmed these days it
seems cos need to pao every other administrative
stuff as well.. on top of having to give their all and
beyond during teaching hours. The last thing they
are looking for is another kiasu parent :rant: away
incessantly after they are done for the day..

Just an opinion hor. Dun flame me. :siam:

[buds]

Funz:

Chenonceau:

[quote=\"Funz\"]I guess to be fair, not all schools are teaching synthesis n transformation at P1. Heuristics too. Dd at P1 was introduced to models only at the end of the year.

It's still the same PSLE. Stress in P1 or stress in P ???... it's still the same stress. In view of the escalating demands at the PSLE, some schools try to start earlier. Can't blame them.

It's so funny... a whole nation of kids have to perform at higher and higher levels because testing methodology says that exams should be discriminating. Our children suffer to support a theoretical principle of testing methodology.

Maybe a bit less theory and a bit more common sense...

Understand where u r coming from Chen, but Janet's post seems to imply that all P1s are being taught and by extension, tested on synthesis and transformation as well as heuristics. Just wanted to point out that not all schools are doing that.

I think that it is the school's misguided effort to raise their standards that is pushing them to teach such advance curriculum to the lower primary. And that we can most probably trace the cause back to the KPIs that MOE sets for the schools.[/quote]Gotta agree with Funz here..

Just a thought.. :scratchhead:

Cud it also be that the expectations and also the push in top primary schools
differ with neighbourhood schools, hence driving the parents to the point of
:faint:? Perhaps the advance curriculum teaching culture prevails more in
top schools?

[corneyAmber]

buds:

2ppaamm:

I also agree it is not a blaming session. However, back to my culture thingy. No matter how we put it, the educators tend to believe that if we propose alternatives, it is a reflection of their abilities. I have tried to say things in many different ways, using analogy, persuading, etc. At the end of the day, once you disagree, you are against them. I think our educators need to learn how to disagree, and learn that they can be wrong, too. At this point, I think their pride is too big. Again, this is not a blaming session. This is an inherent and culture problem that needs education.

Though there are one too many educators who fit into this culture you speak
of.. there are also extraordinary ones who make the difference. :love:

From my experience, i've met a good handful. Not afraid to apologize when
a mistake is made.. willing to brainstorm over a fix.. will go all out to fix
something that was in a fix.. request for us to share our thoughts on
plans moving forward or any issues if any.. :celebrate:

We (my family) enjoyed the rapport i've had with them immensely and it has
made school going even happier for the girls as well. Perhaps another area to
look into is how we can/should approach the matter at hand..

Like, :idea:... to request instead of demand..
to ask; intead of tell.. to feedback instead of
complain.. or to care to share instead of why
doncha give.. kinda approach.



Kindness begets kindness, no?

Cos teachers are overwhelmed these days it
seems cos need to pao every other administrative
stuff as well.. on top of having to give their all and
beyond during teaching hours. The last thing they
are looking for is another kiasu parent :rant: away
incessantly after they are done for the day..

Just an opinion hor. Dun flame me. :siam:

Not flaming you but I think you are lucky if you meet all the right people. Given 2ppaamm's background I am sure she is able to make her points soundly, rationally and as constructive feedback. I have seen it with my own eyes at some admin counters in the schools, the admin team can give you the face of \"you owe me a living\" look without even opening the mouth and meeting for the first time. To them, they think they are doing a gate-keeping job, but they are a total turn-off and misrepresenting the school. At some security posts, the security guards appear to be having PMS at some time of the months albeit they have known the parents for years like what 2ppaamm has experienced when she drove into her school. Generally I agree with you I have met people who will respond well to requests most of the time and those people are normal but there is a chain of strange behaviours in some schools whereby the entire operation team has the face where \"you owe me a living\" to parents. My friend was complaining to me and it upset her alot especially when she had done nothing to deserve that. I don't see the need why they have to do that even if they have had bad experiences with some \"black sheep\" parents. It's not right.

So kiasu parents there will be but it is not right to group all parents under that umbrella, that is the extreme you have not been exposed to albeit I agree there are black sheep among parents , buds.

[Edureach]

Be realistic and moderate your expectations along the way. Whatever system that is up, you survive. Parents want to dsa to RI,HCI,NUS etc wish them well but for your kids, just ignore these noices. Be thankful for gep but if your kids are unable to partake, move on really nothing to lose. For those whose kids were sent for specialised training to gain advantage in the gep screening, you don’t have to follow because is rather unwise.


At the end of the day, your kids may score 240, 250 or 260 just be happy and move on. No need to dream of 270, 280 or even 290. PSLE top scorers may not be amongst the tops in A-level, the latter is the exam you should pay attention as it is the mother of all exams, definitely not PSLE, which is relatively unimportant as your kids move up the academic journey. Most importantly, is kids enjoy the journey and continue the next phase of education with confidence and maturity. Even if kids are unable or unsuitable for jcs, just encourage them to excel in poly. Never never show great disappointment as kids are able to pick up the signals.


Wholeness is the most important element in a kid’s life. Academic achievement is only a portion of it. At the end of the day, as long as your kids put in their best foot forward, there’s nothing to complain about.


Let not the actions of others deter your happiness. Only we as a family unit can determine our own destiny.

[buds]

Oooh there are.. i have had a hand of :rant: at them and giving them

two hoots of my sleep deprived owl self. My post was in noooo
way in reference to my own demi-goddess-superwoman of course.. :dowan:
Just in general cos i've met one too many bang table parents too..http://www.easyfreesmileys.com/facebook-smileys.html

So, yes.. I have been exposed but i suppose it may not amount to the
extreme doses some parents may have experienced for themselves or
that i only happen to look and hear the good stuff.