Petition to Review the Singapore Education System

[janet88]

Chenonceau:

What is taught in school (and documented in textbooks) is insufficient to pass P5 SA1 and P5 SA2. It is impossible for any child with bad tutors or no tutors to do well given what they are taught at school. They need external resources and practices. Children intuitively know when the odds are stacked against them. Those in the bottom classes without access to external help from parents nor tutors will seek refuge in play. One cannot blame the children. There is nothing they can do to pull up their grades without external help. So, they grab what little happiness they can from life - play.


Again, no one is not blaming teachers. We call for a system review. And such a review should help teachers so that teachers can help students.

We are definitely not blaming teachers here. They are doing their best too but the current system is not in their favour. The first CA1 was a BIG shock to parents (like myself)...took a long time to recover from it and finally it dawned on me (after SA1) that what I'm doing with my son may be wrong. Thus he has tuition for Eng, Math and Chinese now, and I feel more assured of better grades in SA2 :xedfingers:

[sall]

jenao:

that the school does not teach the kids and tuition is a must.

Well, this statement implies that the teachers are not teaching.

[dovetail]

Chenonceau:

sall:

If schools do not teach students, what are the students doing in school?

School is compulsory. Many students go to school to have fun. The real work of learning happens at home with Tutors.

sall:

For a lot of schools, there are a lot of supplementary lessons conducted after the formal sch hours for the students, even during holidays, teachers conduct supp. classes. I know of teachers who even went back during public holidays to help the students with their work.

Even the most dedicated Teachers cannot do a good job in a system that
(1) emphasizes skills
(2) BUT loads classrooms with 40 students so that Teachers have no time to mark skills practices and give in-depth individualized feedback

Supplementary classes are more of big class teaching where teachers talk and explain. The PSLE is skills heavy. You can only learn skills if you have skills practice. Teachers simply have no time to give enough skills practice. Teachers waste their time and their students' time with these talk heavy supplementary classes.

sall:

There could be some not too dedicated teachers, but there are also a lot of very hardworking and overworked teachers. I see teachers who are still working in the staffroom even at 8 pm, these teachers are in the morning session.

Absolutely, my DS' last year's Teacher was so dedicated she ended in hospital. But this year's Teacher marks compos with a tick only. No mark. No comments.

sall:

Some students actually don't need tuition, but they lack the discipline, so the parents got the tutors to help to push these kids.

Apologies... I do beg to differ. My son is very disciplined. He came home yesterday and declared \"Mom, my math is rusty\". After lunch, he completed one Math Paper 2. He scored 85. He was not happy and did another. But he was tired and he scored worse. He went to bed in tears whilst I pooh poohed his tears and said \"Go and sleep. You scored badly 'cos you were tired\". After school today, he printed out another paper and did it.

But even my very disciplined son would not do well if I did not
(1) provide resources that Tutors normally provide (e.g., Onsponge assessments and Math Heuristics workbooks)
(2) ensure my husband spends some time every week to brainstorm solutions to the 1 or 2 problems that stump him
(3) provide the skills practices he needs that his teacher cannot give because she has no time to mark

Kids can't absorb material that schools don't teach. And there is plenty that schools don't teach but DO test. For some anecdotal evidence see http://www.kiasuparents.com/kiasu/forum/viewtopic.php?p=427099#p427099

Chenonceau,

I think you need to relax abit. You seem so angry with the education system and think so rotten of it. Do be fair and understand that it is not easy to run the system and people are trying their best. You can just enjoy your good fortune of being able to coach your kid's yourself but there are many thousands who need this less than perfect system to have a decent education. Yes some will go for tuition but it is the act of the kiasu parents that cause the vicious cycle which result in the system being like this.

Count our blessing and we can be happier. Don't keep condemning the system as our kid's will feel it and it is not healthy for them. I hope you won't be angry with what I say. I don't wish to add oil to fire and fan the flame of unhappiness. I just want you to feel better. I think better to look at the 998 good bricks of a wall than to just look at the 2 bad bricks.

[jenao]

Chenonceau:

This thread is not a teacher bashing thread. Reading jenao again, I did not see any teacher bashing in what she wrote. No one is blaming teachers unfairly. This is a thread aimed at getting MOE to review the system from

(1) textbooks to
(2) syllabus to
(3) testing methodology to
(4) hidden incentives that stimulate parent kiasu-ism to
(5) management of intellectual capital (to prevent ex-Teachers etc... from making indecent profits by leveraging on what they developed in the crucible of their years in MOE. Such knowledge should be free for the nation's children.)

Certainly, any review of the system needs to examine how the system can improve Teacher management (i.e., work design, workflow, team dynamics etc...). I don't think this has been looked at or studied properly. There have been some disparate efforts to take away admin load etc... but the efforts are not comprehensively and critically thought through in view of the entire teaching environment. Efforts have been made to design pay and promotion schemes but these are easy and ineffective solutions to a systemic problem.

As to the question of poorer academic classes wanting to have fun, I can understand why that happens in this system. Our system celebrates the top. Only those at the top feel encouraged to work hard. Only one child in 40, can be at the top. Only the top 2 classes feel good about themselves. Everyone else feels lousy and wanna play to destress.

What is taught in school (and documented in textbooks) is insufficient to pass P5 SA1 and P5 SA2. It is impossible for any child with bad tutors or no tutors to do well given what they are taught at school. They need external resources and practices. Children intuitively know when the odds are stacked against them. Those in the bottom classes without access to external help from parents nor tutors will seek refuge in play. One cannot blame the children. There is nothing they can do to pull up their grades without external help. So, they grab what little happiness they can from life - play.

Again, no one is not blaming teachers. We call for a system review. And such a review should help teachers so that teachers can help students.

Chenonceau, thank you for clarifying. Definitely have no intention to blame or bash the teacher. What I meant was if the teaching in school is not sufficient for students to do well so much so that even the top students and gifted students go for tuition, then the system need to be reviewed. We are not talking about the weaker and slower ones who need help with tuition because the teacher cannot slow down or cater to them. We are talking about top students who are bright and motivated. Reading the posts from parents here, it does seem to suggest that these top students do go for tuition/extra help to do well. And if that is the case, MOE need to review the system, especially if top and gifted students go for tuition to do well. Maybe we can start a poll on kids who get help from parents/tutor vs no help at all/all depends on school to see the situation. During our time, we had no help from our parents and relied on school to teach us and we all did very well without tuition. Our parents were not able to teach us and all they did was just nag/motivate us. Is it possible now? Should parents now have the same expectation of the education system today like what our parents had?

Chenonceau started this thread to review the education system, so it is not fair to say she is condemning the system and looking at only the bad points. In her own words, she will survive the system as she has the RESOURCES to do that but that does not mean that everyone else will survive the system. Parents here are also not bashing or condemning but rather giving their take on what they have been through. These are reasonable points to note on the state of our education system.

[Chenonceau]

dovetail:

Chenonceau,


I think you need to relax abit. You seem so angry with the education system and think so rotten of it. Do be fair and understand that it is not easy to run the system and people are trying their best. You can just enjoy your good fortune of being able to coach your kid's yourself but there are many thousands who need this less than perfect system to have a decent education. Yes some will go for tuition but it is the act of the kiasu parents that cause the vicious cycle which result in the system being like this.

Count our blessing and we can be happier. Don't keep condemning the system as our kid's will feel it and it is not healthy for them. I hope you won't be angry with what I say. I don't wish to add oil to fire and fan the flame of unhappiness. I just want you to feel better. I think better to look at the 998 good bricks of a wall than to just look at the 2 bad bricks.

Odd... where do you discern from my points of logic a runaway and destructive anger?

Sigh! Yes dear... it is not easy to run a system. So we acknowledge that and decide to live with an imperfect system? Shut up. Hunker down. As long as my kids don't suffer, be thankful?

Ummm... I don't mean to make you angry either. But that which you suggest is very selfish I think. My kids aren't suffering so I should sit back and count my blessings? I have 1 DD who is already a scholar. Next DD is invited to apply to Cambridge even BEFORE her 'A' levels. DS is just only blossoming. But that does not mean that I should hunker down and thank God for my lucky stars that I am blessed.

Why? Because others in this country are not blessed. Indeed, many are not and when I take the trouble to speak, it is because I can, I am able and therefore I should. Anger has nothing to do with it anymore. I started angry but now I no longer am. The bright child with little access to external resources and tutors is likely to have a mother far less literate than I. These parents and children have no voice if I give them none. I met someone from MOE and we had a great time exploring the possibilities for change... Constructive criticism should not be misread as indiscriminate anger.

For the moment, there are some constructive points made (not just angry words)
(1) textbooks should reflect exam standards better
(2) resources for self-study should be made available to students so that even those who have no access to external resources and tutors can help themselves
(3) either take away the skills emphasis in the PSLE OR make classes smaller so that teachers can give more skills practice
(4) study and review the systems and processes for managing teachers
(5) protect MOE's intellectual capital better better so that ex-MOE personnel cannot use what they learnt and refined in MOE to make indecent profit, at the expense of equal educational opportunity

Where in all the points above do you discern an unproductive anger? I am puzzled. We should approach the world we live in with both a critical mind and a heart for those less blessed. It is because I know that many thousands depend on this system for an education that I actively contribute to this thread. People who are blessed like you (your kid is in GEP?) and I can best render service to these many thousands if we help nudge this system to serve them better... not by sitting back and counting our blessings and giving the people who run the system some slack.

The people who run the system are very well paid, AND they are very clever. They can do better than this, and it would be fun and rewarding for them to try and fix this. Also, these clever people at the MOE are far more literate (and have more personal and organisational resources) than the bright child (without access to external help). The people who really need some slack are the bright children without access to external help. I personally know one child in normal stream with an IQ of 120 (whose father is dead and whose mother almost missed Primary One registration).

These are the children who need some slack. Now, I am not asking that these children be treated more leniently. Keep standards high if you wish, but...
(1) textbooks should reflect exam standards better
(2) resources for self-study should be made available to students so that even those who have no access to external resources and tutors can help themselves
(3) either take away the skills emphasis in the PSLE OR make classes smaller so that teachers can give more skills practice
(4) study and review the systems and processes for managing teachers
(5) protect MOE's intellectual capital better so that ex-MOE personnel cannot use what they learnt and refined in MOE to make indecent profit, at the expense of equal educational opportunity

Then at least these kids have a chance. I continue to write in this thread not because I am angry but because I want to keep this thread focused on system issues and not have it side-tracked to a discussion on whether Teachers are at fault.

Teachers are not at fault but the system should be reviewed. You may have misunderstood the intent of this thread and my posts, and read anger where there was none.

[Funx3]

janet_lee88:

Chenonceau:

What is taught in school (and documented in textbooks) is insufficient to pass P5 SA1 and P5 SA2. It is impossible for any child with bad tutors or no tutors to do well given what they are taught at school. They need external resources and practices. Children intuitively know when the odds are stacked against them. Those in the bottom classes without access to external help from parents nor tutors will seek refuge in play. One cannot blame the children. There is nothing they can do to pull up their grades without external help. So, they grab what little happiness they can from life - play.


Again, no one is not blaming teachers. We call for a system review. And such a review should help teachers so that teachers can help students.

We are definitely not blaming teachers here. They are doing their best too but the current system is not in their favour. The first CA1 was a BIG shock to parents (like myself)...took a long time to recover from it and finally it dawned on me (after SA1) that what I'm doing with my son may be wrong. Thus he has tuition for Eng, Math and Chinese now, and I feel more assured of better grades in SA2 :xedfingers:

Janet, Has your boy improve in SA1 this year?
Have not Follow the thread for some time ....

[Chenonceau]

jenao:

These are reasonable points to note on the state of our education system.

Yes... we are trying to be reasonable here. Funny that it should be misconstrued as anger. This misunderstanding could be because this is an internet forum and all paralinguistic cues are missing from the conversation?

[cantbearit2]

dovetail:

Chenonceau,

I think you need to relax abit. You seem so angry with the education system and think so rotten of it. Do be fair and understand that it is not easy to run the system and people are trying their best. You can just enjoy your good fortune of being able to coach your kid's yourself but there are many thousands who need this less than perfect system to have a decent education. Yes some will go for tuition but it is the act of the kiasu parents that cause the vicious cycle which result in the system being like this.

Count our blessing and we can be happier. Don't keep condemning the system as our kid's will feel it and it is not healthy for them. I hope you won't be angry with what I say. I don't wish to add oil to fire and fan the flame of unhappiness. I just want you to feel better. I think better to look at the 998 good bricks of a wall than to just look at the 2 bad bricks.

Hi dovetail,
u may have misunderstood Chenonceau. She is speaking up for e mass avg family wif no resources to enrichment/ tuition in order to achieve gd results.
During our time, i honestly believe someone fr avg family can do well in exams if ey work hard & wif no need for tuition/enrichment. Now, IM losing tis faith :sad: (like many parents, if u read thru e thread).
Chenonceau's kiddos certainly have e resources (both parents being highly educated and dedicated). She gif me e feeling tat somewhr during her coaching, she felt sorry for those who din have dedicated and/or educated parents to coach em.
Tink in tis thread, most of us juz wan to explore on how to fine tune e sys so tat no one is left behind due to an individual's disadvantaged family background. Or mayb our kids dun need tuition/ enrichment :moneyflies: but wif hard work can still do well in exams.
Someone ever mention abt preparing our kids well for P1 so tat we dun feel e stress of our ed sys. However if e parents r not equipped with e know how of wat/how 2 prepare em or have e resources :moneyflies: to prepare em, their kids will still suffer wen ey enter e formal pri ed.:imdrowning:
Hope tis clears e air & glad yur kids r not thrown off e bal fr our current sys.

[Chenonceau]

sall:

jenao:

that the school does not teach the kids and tuition is a must.

Well, this statement implies that the teachers are not teaching.

Could be a misinterpretation/misunderstanding?

The exact words are \"the school does not teach\". Schools have teachers, but a bunch of teachers do not make a school. There are support resources, there are webs of co-operative relationships that encourage/discourage teachers, there are jobs scopes etc... that all make up a school. No one is blaming teachers here because we know that teachers too are caught up in the system.

Once one understands that... then jenao's statement says what it says, and implies nothing negative about teachers. Be assured that many of us are sympathetic to teachers.

[janet88]

Funx3:

janet_lee88:

[quote=\"Chenonceau\"]What is taught in school (and documented in textbooks) is insufficient to pass P5 SA1 and P5 SA2. It is impossible for any child with bad tutors or no tutors to do well given what they are taught at school. They need external resources and practices. Again, no one is not blaming teachers. We call for a system review. And such a review should help teachers so that teachers can help students.

The first CA1 was a BIG shock to parents (like myself)...took a long time to recover from it and finally it dawned on me (after SA1) that what I'm doing with my son may be wrong. Thus he has tuition for Eng, Math and Chinese now, and I feel more assured of better grades in SA2 :xedfingers:

Janet, Has your boy improve in SA1 this year?
Have not Follow the thread for some time ....[/quote]For Math...he passed Section A Math 20/40 but still flunk Section B horribly. His Science is so far the 'best' among the 4...above average for standard but below his class average.