Foreign Workers

[corneyAmber]

Honestly, for each individual, instead of waiting for things to be done to help you, my suggestion is help yourself first. Explore the possibility of being a foreign worker in other countries, then perhaps you can understand why it is required in some areas and perhaps the overseas exposure can increase your value when you return. Just some food for thought.

[verykiasu2010]

ksi:

Honestly, for each individual, instead of waiting for things to be done to help you, my suggestion is help yourself first. Explore the possibility of being a foreign worker in other countries, then perhaps you can understand why it is required in some areas and perhaps the overseas exposure can increase your value when you return. Just some food for thought.

you don't want to be accused by people of advocating cheap labour to replace them and they having served NS and defended the country are now forced out of their own county ??!!

you have good advice but people can twist it around to slam you :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :evil: :evil:

[corneyAmber]

verykiasu2010:

ksi:

Honestly, for each individual, instead of waiting for things to be done to help you, my suggestion is help yourself first. Explore the possibility of being a foreign worker in other countries, then perhaps you can understand why it is required in some areas and perhaps the overseas exposure can increase your value when you return. Just some food for thought.

you don't want to be accused by people of advocating cheap labour to replace them and they having served NS and defended the country are now forced out of their own county ??!!

you have good advice but people can twist it around to slam you :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :evil: :evil:

Oh thanks for the alert :hi5: ...but if more are going out to work, would it not be a better way to send the signal? :evil: In fact working overseas have its merits.

[limlim]

verykiasu2010:

about banking industry


i know of a transaction

it is easy for us to criticise the foreign PMET, but we are far behind in terms of ability and agility in executing a transaction

I have no comments on the banking sector, but I'll like to share about the engineering/manufacturing sector.

Most of the time, the so-called foreign \"talent\" has no real talent nor skills at all.. The only reason they're here is bcoz they're CHEAPer than locals. Some took up engineering positions but doesn't know how to use excel, or understand simple programs, have poor understanding ability and troubleshooting skills.. The company is probably hoping that local engineers can train them up so that these cheap labors can take up higher level job but at much lower pay.

The term FT have been grossly abused..

These are just cheap labor, no way near being foreign \"talent\". And totally no value added to local economy other than lowering the cost of running business at the expense of local workers.

[limlim]

And I so often hear complains from ex-colleagues that those pinoy engineers knowing nuts but is very good at wayang and PLP to bosses… And it’s the local engineers doing most of the real work most of the time.


For e.g. The local engineers supported the pinoy production engineers to setup equipments, run tests, and analysis of the results… the pinoys just "format" the presentation nicely with colours and powerpoint effects, and takes all the credits for the project…

[3Boys]

limlim:

just \"format\" the presentation nicely with colours and powerpoint effects, and takes all the credits for the project..

I think we all know people, both foreign and local, who are great at doing that :evil:

Just saw some stuff P5 kids were doing at my son's P-school, I think future Singaporeans will be knocking the socks off other people at presentations.....

Bosses aren't (always ) dumb, the impression that somehow foreigners can only present whilst the locals work, is frankly misplaced, and not at all my experience. There are good and bad eggs in all camps, at the end of the day, we need to go for the guy that delivers, or our necks are next in line.

[3Boys]

DTJ:

3Boys:

DTJ, you make a fair observation, but I suspect it is one part of the story only. Singapore managers are not cheap anymore, at the mid-senior level. I know of several cases where Westerners with similar or more experience were brought in at LOWER salaries than what was offered/earned to/by a Singaporean.


Sometimes it may seem like our overseas compadres have a lot to spend, quite a bit of it is illusory honestly.

Good to know you encountered the opposite. It speaks well of our \"Singapore talent\" and I'm glad ... so at least there is hope, however tiny

But seriously, in the banking industry......... (I decided not to say more)

I believe Singapore managers are very well regarded. I was speaking with a recruiter some time back, who surprised me by saying, that despite the more entrepreneurial climate in Taiwan, MNCs there tend to prefer Singapore mid-senior managers due to their abilities. Easier to place and they get higher salaries too. Another recruiter I spoke to mentioned keen competition here for talent as companies continue to set up regional HQs. If they could hire locally, they would FAR prefer to do so, and HAVE done so, very successfully.

Despite what it may seem, I have a lot of regard for our fellow countryman workers. They still have that edge. But I honestly fear that it is being lost in all this self-pity, the fighting spirit seems to be evaporating.

That's why I sometimes write harshly, if there is one thing that irks me, its all the whining, drives me up the wall.

Lift your eyes off the ground folk, all it needs is an attitude adjustment, and we will be fine.

[dunnoleh]

DTJ:

...

As to why such banks choose FT over local (since both supposedly have same skillset for mid-management role & locals are cheaper), I would like to leave this discussion out (confidentiality & sensitivities' issues).
...
Just my opinion only.

I've seen FTs who are worth every bit of what they are paid for, and also those who are not.
What I cannot understand is people who insist on keeping the bad ones and happily let the good ones leave.
In some cases, I find that \"sensitivities & confidentiality\" = stupidity.
It doesn't look good in the long run.

[Musings]

limlim:

verykiasu2010:

about banking industry


i know of a transaction

it is easy for us to criticise the foreign PMET, but we are far behind in terms of ability and agility in executing a transaction

I have no comments on the banking sector, but I'll like to share about the engineering/manufacturing sector.

Most of the time, the so-called foreign \"talent\" has no real talent nor skills at all.. The only reason they're here is bcoz they're CHEAPer than locals. Some took up engineering positions but doesn't know how to use excel, or understand simple programs, have poor understanding ability and troubleshooting skills.. The company is probably hoping that local engineers can train them up so that these cheap labors can take up higher level job but at much lower pay.

The term FT have been grossly abused..

These are just cheap labor, no way near being foreign \"talent\". And totally no value added to local economy other than lowering the cost of running business at the expense of local workers.

I think it really depends on the company. I'm sure there are companies who do this. This may be the SMEs who are the most pressured by labour costs. Rising labour costs is a reality all over the world in particular developed countries. This is why MNCs keep relocating manufacturing functions from developing country to an even cheaper developing country. Where we cannot compete on labour cost, we have to make up for it by upgrading to higher end skills/jobs - move to higher end manufacturing. That is why engineering education is also being revolutionised - emphasis on design and more inter-disciplinary.

A well established company understands the need not to compromise their business quality by hiring less than able foreigners simply because they are cheaper. Let's just say that spouse company is not small - one of the biggest foreign investor in Singapore. But the difficulty they face in particular in filling engineering positions (BTW these are not blue collar positions) and skilled technician positions (though not managerial) is that Sporeans shun such jobs. I have personal friends in spouse company (degree holders) who lament about remote location of the plant and quit...Cases like this abound in spouse company. Nobody can fault you for making this personal choice but let's not turn around and slam the foreigner who is willing to come in to take on the job.

The situation in the service industry, restaurants etc is well known - filled with Pinoys, PRCs etc. Again because Sporeans lament about long working hours, standing on their feet all the time, being yelled at by customers etc. I know people who are unemployed and who rather live on hand outs from family, maintenance pay out from ex-spouse etc then to take on service jobs cos' 'lose face', hours too long not because they have no ability. (They show up in church asking for help but we then find that they are not willing to help themselves...)

My point is we cannot generalise and lament all the time that foreigners are taking away jobs. As what forummers have shared, the situation varies from industry to industry and even between companies in each industry.

I sympathise with those who genuinely try to help themselves but find themselves being squeezed out by foreigners but let's not assume that this is always the case. At least from my personal experience, there are many factors for this phenomenon which cannot be blamed on foreigners.

[verykiasu2010]

Musings:

limlim:

[quote=\"verykiasu2010\"]about banking industry


i know of a transaction

it is easy for us to criticise the foreign PMET, but we are far behind in terms of ability and agility in executing a transaction

I have no comments on the banking sector, but I'll like to share about the engineering/manufacturing sector.

Most of the time, the so-called foreign \"talent\" has no real talent nor skills at all.. The only reason they're here is bcoz they're CHEAPer than locals. Some took up engineering positions but doesn't know how to use excel, or understand simple programs, have poor understanding ability and troubleshooting skills.. The company is probably hoping that local engineers can train them up so that these cheap labors can take up higher level job but at much lower pay.

The term FT have been grossly abused..

These are just cheap labor, no way near being foreign \"talent\". And totally no value added to local economy other than lowering the cost of running business at the expense of local workers.

I think it really depends on the company. I'm sure there are companies who do this. This may be the SMEs who are the most pressured by labour costs. Rising labour costs is a reality all over the world in particular developed countries. This is why MNCs keep relocating manufacturing functions from developing country to an even cheaper developing country. Where we cannot compete on labour cost, we have to make up for it by upgrading to higher end skills/jobs - move to higher end manufacturing. That is why engineering education is also being revolutionised - emphasis on design and more inter-disciplinary.

A well established company understands the need not to compromise their business quality by hiring less than able foreigners simply because they are cheaper. Let's just say that spouse company is not small - one of the biggest foreign investor in Singapore. But the difficulty they face in particular in filling engineering positions (BTW these are not blue collar positions) and skilled technician positions (though not managerial) is that Sporeans shun such jobs. I have personal friends in spouse company (degree holders) who lament about remote location of the plant and quit...Cases like this abound in spouse company. Nobody can fault you for making this personal choice but let's not turn around and slam the foreigner who is willing to come in to take on the job.

The situation in the service industry, restaurants etc is well known - filled with Pinoys, PRCs etc. Again because Sporeans lament about long working hours, standing on their feet all the time, being yelled at by customers etc. I know people who are unemployed and who rather live on hand outs from family, maintenance pay out from ex-spouse etc then to take on service jobs cos' 'lose face', hours too long not because they have no ability. (They show up in church asking for help but we then find that they are not willing to help themselves...)

My point is we cannot generalise and lament all the time that foreigners are taking away jobs. As what forummers have shared, the situation varies from industry to industry and even between companies in each industry.

I sympathise with those who genuinely try to help themselves but find themselves being squeezed out by foreigners but let's not assume that this is always the case. At least from my personal experience, there are many factors for this phenomenon which cannot be blamed on foreigners.[/quote] :goodpost: