Small fish in big pond or big fish in small pond?
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jedamum:
To have a truly motivated kid, you need to give choices and respect them. I give my kids choices all the time. It develops judgment on their part. The kid cannot decide, but a dialogue can be started and the issue properly explored so that the child CAN decide.many a times, kids are clueless on what they want. they take cues from their parent's unspoken behaviour and expectations. (ok, sometimes kids also know what they want..so when is this 'sometimes' reliable?)
so is my decision going to be totally based on his welfare or am i subconsciously affected by my own preconceived decision?
Of course, there are moments when one has to over-ride. I locked away DD's laptop for a month in Sec 3 and forbade studying because she was so ill. I enforce rest days on Sundays and for 2 days before exams.
True... the unspoken family ethos plays a part. This is not something one can help. The kids live and breathe what us adults do. I don't watch TV. I get bored with TV easily. Lo and behold, for some reason, my kids also get bored with TV. I am picky with food. If it does not taste good, I would rather starve. DD has gone 3 meals without eating because I was too busy to cook, and she didn't want hawker food. I go for the best in whatever I do, even if I think I won't get it. I suppose my kids do too. I am a Christian. Unlike many Christians, I never forced my religion down their throats. I gave them a real choice... the same that my God gave me. Yet DD herself goes to church and reads the bible every night... and DS is beginning to explore the religion.
I dunno, maybe my kids make choices that I approve of because they know that I really give them a true choice. My son decided he hated Kumon, so we took him out. Then he chose to go back... why? Family ethos? Maybe, but it was his choice both ways. So he was motivated.
In the next few months, I am offering DD the choice of university (to do Psychology) or culinary school (to be a chef), and I am prepared to support her in whichever. She likes both. She and I are dialoguing on this important life decision and considering the impact on work-life, on potential earnings, on freedom from corporate slavery.... and then she will choose. And I will respect her choice.
Children haven't a clue but if we can sit down and discuss the choices before they choose. -
Chenonceau,
pmed you. :oops: -
Funz:
For me, I prefer small fish in big pond. And no need to become a big fish just don't end up being fish food can oredi.
Haha me too. I prefer small fish in big pond. I think, in most cases, \"survival instinct\" will kick in and small fish will try to catch up with the big fish, or least avoid being devoured.
For big fish in small pond, my worry is that big fish becomes complacent. After all, if fish food so easy to come by, big fish might get lazy....
That being said, the type of water is crucial. Fresh water fish cannot put in salt water, and vice versa. -
This has always been my personal battle too. You see, when I was doing my post-graduate studies, I was giving tuition part-time. I remember teaching this pair of brothers studying in Nanyang Primary School. The older brother was the typical disciplined type and I had no problem teaching him or set goals for him to achieve. However, his younger brother was not in the least interested in studies. Their old grandmother would brew \"pig's brain soup\" for the younger grandson daily, hoping to make him \"smarter\". It was funny because the soup looked horrible and we used to joke that it was time for him to go into his \"torture chamber\"...
Back to seriousness, that poor boy could hardly keep up with the school's standards and once, he tearfully looked me in my eyes and said \"Miss X, next time if you have children, please do not force them to go to a good school.\" That sentence from the then 8-year-old really set me thinking.
Today, I have a DS and a DD. DS goes to a \"small pond\" and does okay, without much help. However, after observing him for 2 years, we feel that he can probably do well too in a better school aka \"big pond\". We are of course not going to uproot him now. We hope to guide him along and hopefully he will do well enough in PSLE to qualify for a \"big pond\".
One more case: My friend who got herself all stressed up (& broke from hiring all kinds of tutors) the whole 6 years when her son was in Taonan eventually relaxed when he ended up in a neighborhood secondary school (barely scraped through his PSLE)...
Every child is different. If a child is generally above average, we can afford to push him/her up a little but if a child is not performing up to standard even with help, going to a big pond may just press down the child's self confidence further. Just my lor-li-lor-sor :boogie: 2 cents' worth. -
Chenonceau:
:goodpost: I share your views about big ponds having more resources and numbers to create opportunities, and also about managing expectations to not being top dog.Funz:
For me, I prefer small fish in big pond. And no need to become a big fish just don't end up being fish food can oredi.
Funz, we are quite alike in many ways, it would seem.
I too prefer to be small fish in big pond. See... if you're a big fish in a small pond, you have fewer choices and opportunities. BUT you feel good about yourself.
If you are a small fish in a big pond, you have myriad choices and opportunities... BUT you can choose not to take them up. You have choices.
The top secondary schools open opportunities for travel, international competition, entrepreneurship, internships, professor mentorships that depend on organization-to-organization working relationships that lower tier secondary schools don't have (because they do not have the critical mass of good students to make cultivating these organization-to-organization working relationships worthwhile). However, ya won't feel good about yourself 'cos you won't be top dog. But that's easy enough to resolve... just don't make a big deal outta wanting to be top dog. It teaches humility and resilience to setbacks when you see you're never gonna make it to top dog.
I know a student who was admitted to Harvard 3 years back. Even for top students, getting into Harvard is almost impossible. Harvard takes in 1 or 2 Singaporeans each year. This fellow was in GEP and he was last in class much of the time he was there. Once he accepted that he wasn't gonna be anywhere else but last in his class, he turned his attention to making friends everywhere he went... he danced, choreographed dance (all sorts of dance) etc... and people liked him because he was humble. He knew how it felt like to be a small fish. BUT, the fact that he was in GEP RI made a lot of difference because he met different people, made different friends and had access to opportunities he would not otherwise have had.
Big fish in small ponds might actually die of shock and inability to cope if life throws them into a big pond. Small fish in big ponds have navigated all the dangers and developed some resilience and coping skills to survive at least.
Just my 2 cents. -
jtoh:
:goodpost: I share your views about big ponds having more resources and numbers to create opportunities, and also about managing expectations to not being top dog.[/quote] :hi5:Chenonceau:
[quote=\"Funz\"]For me, I prefer small fish in big pond. And no need to become a big fish just don't end up being fish food can oredi.
Funz, we are quite alike in many ways, it would seem.
I too prefer to be small fish in big pond. See... if you're a big fish in a small pond, you have fewer choices and opportunities. BUT you feel good about yourself.
If you are a small fish in a big pond, you have myriad choices and opportunities... BUT you can choose not to take them up. You have choices.
The top secondary schools open opportunities for travel, international competition, entrepreneurship, internships, professor mentorships that depend on organization-to-organization working relationships that lower tier secondary schools don't have (because they do not have the critical mass of good students to make cultivating these organization-to-organization working relationships worthwhile). However, ya won't feel good about yourself 'cos you won't be top dog. But that's easy enough to resolve... just don't make a big deal outta wanting to be top dog. It teaches humility and resilience to setbacks when you see you're never gonna make it to top dog.
I know a student who was admitted to Harvard 3 years back. Even for top students, getting into Harvard is almost impossible. Harvard takes in 1 or 2 Singaporeans each year. This fellow was in GEP and he was last in class much of the time he was there. Once he accepted that he wasn't gonna be anywhere else but last in his class, he turned his attention to making friends everywhere he went... he danced, choreographed dance (all sorts of dance) etc... and people liked him because he was humble. He knew how it felt like to be a small fish. BUT, the fact that he was in GEP RI made a lot of difference because he met different people, made different friends and had access to opportunities he would not otherwise have had.
Big fish in small ponds might actually die of shock and inability to cope if life throws them into a big pond. Small fish in big ponds have navigated all the dangers and developed some resilience and coping skills to survive at least.
Just my 2 cents. -
Just to share. When my kids were young, I worked very hard to get them into the big pond. I felt the urge and importance of doing so because I personally experienced the limitation living in a small pond.
My kids worked very hard (by force - another tiger mama) and all got into the big pond. Throughout the years, they were the small fish there because "genetically" they cannot grow to match the others. Luckily we never force feed them. The only consolation we offered them was "Too bad, you have our genes."
The big pond is a wonderful place. Though extremely competitive, they learnt self-motivation and setting standards. Though they are no where near the big fish, they are pretty comfortable with their own size. If I was to have young kids again (touch wood), I will still work to get them to the big pond. However, we will remember not to force feed them and let them enjoy themselves as ikan bilis. -
atutor2001:
The only consolation we offered them was \"Too bad, you have our genes.\"
Yup! That's what I tell my kids. Plus also that people like us just need to work a bit harder to get someplace.
It is motivating because it shows that you and your child are IN IT TOGETHER. And that you don't judge them poorly. Good results or bad results, it's in your genes... and then this keeps them trying and trying and eventually, they actually do better than others who are more gifted. -
toddles:
:goodpost:
Hmm... many thoughts about the ST article.
I guess my experience was in a way similar to Vevey's. Topped my neighbourhood pri sch, got into GEP, top JC, then two top unis on both sides of the atlantic.
Was my self-esteem dashed when I transited from top in sch to average/below-average amongst my sec sch peers? Not really. In fact, I quite quickly reconciled myself to the fact that though my PSLE score was comparable to most of my sec 1 classmates, some of them were really brilliant in a way I could never be, however hard I worked. I did ok, and acknowledge that I'm bright in certain fields in my own way too, just not quite creme de la creme in all fields, as some of my classmates seemed to be. Did that disillusion me and make me stop wanting to work hard? Not really. I just accepted the fact, still worked hard in my uni days, and think I did the best I could, and managed pretty well overall.
I was grateful that I accepted the challenge, in a way, to go to that sec school, instead of choosing a smaller pond so that I could continue topping it. In fact, it seems a bit unhealthy if taken to the extreme, to hold oneself back from challenges just so as to preserve one's ego of always being top! A bit feeble and cowardly instead of being humble?
As many have commented, there are usually more opportunities for exposure in big ponds, and one is stretched, not just by that and committed teachers, but by those brilliant (and very fun) peers. most of my closest friends now are those I got to know in sec sch. The sch culture also moulded me into much of who I am today, the way I tackle difficulties, having more confidence in myself, in public speaking, etc.
This is applicable to sec sch, because PSLE in a way determines who will not drown completely in a big pond.
For pri sch, I believe that parents should try harder to discern their child's ability, and not get into a brand name school at all costs just because it might produce a genius out of every hot-housed child.
Personally, I'll go for a mid-range pri school, and whether my kid goes to a bigger or smaller sec sch pond after that is up to the kid's ability.
Whilst it is attractive to argue that 'the school doesn't matter' and that any neighbourhood school will do for pri and sec, more rigorous studies might show up the fallacies in that theory, since not all kids will thrive and be big fishes in small ponds. My intuition is that such studies would show that 80% of children from neighbourhood schools (talking abt those that have many many vacanices even after Phase 2C) are not big fish who are better for their experience in that school.
It's debatable whether a child who becomes part of that top few in a neighbourhood pri sch is better off (self-esteem wise in the long run?) than a child who is always mid-range in a 'better' pri sch but gets the same PSLE score (and thus same opportunities in sec sch choice) as the neighbourhood sch's top scorer.
Ultimately as a parent, you will have to decide what is best for your child's development as an individual, and overall well-being (mental and emotional stress level), based on your personal knowledge of your child that no one else has! -
thank you thank you. compliment by someone whose parenting style I admire is precious indeed!
sometimes I think this forum (and others) takes me through a lot of reflection and helps me a lot in processing my thoughts as I write them down!
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