Small fish in big pond or big fish in small pond?

[atutor2001]

Just to share. When my kids were young, I worked very hard to get them into the big pond. I felt the urge and importance of doing so because I personally experienced the limitation living in a small pond.


My kids worked very hard (by force - another tiger mama) and all got into the big pond. Throughout the years, they were the small fish there because "genetically" they cannot grow to match the others. Luckily we never force feed them. The only consolation we offered them was "Too bad, you have our genes."

The big pond is a wonderful place. Though extremely competitive, they learnt self-motivation and setting standards. Though they are no where near the big fish, they are pretty comfortable with their own size. If I was to have young kids again (touch wood), I will still work to get them to the big pond. However, we will remember not to force feed them and let them enjoy themselves as ikan bilis.

[Chenonceau]

atutor2001:

The only consolation we offered them was \"Too bad, you have our genes.\"

Yup! That's what I tell my kids. Plus also that people like us just need to work a bit harder to get someplace.

It is motivating because it shows that you and your child are IN IT TOGETHER. And that you don't judge them poorly. Good results or bad results, it's in your genes... and then this keeps them trying and trying and eventually, they actually do better than others who are more gifted.

[Chenonceau]

toddles:

Hmm... many thoughts about the ST article.

I guess my experience was in a way similar to Vevey's. Topped my neighbourhood pri sch, got into GEP, top JC, then two top unis on both sides of the atlantic.

Was my self-esteem dashed when I transited from top in sch to average/below-average amongst my sec sch peers? Not really. In fact, I quite quickly reconciled myself to the fact that though my PSLE score was comparable to most of my sec 1 classmates, some of them were really brilliant in a way I could never be, however hard I worked. I did ok, and acknowledge that I'm bright in certain fields in my own way too, just not quite creme de la creme in all fields, as some of my classmates seemed to be. Did that disillusion me and make me stop wanting to work hard? Not really. I just accepted the fact, still worked hard in my uni days, and think I did the best I could, and managed pretty well overall.

I was grateful that I accepted the challenge, in a way, to go to that sec school, instead of choosing a smaller pond so that I could continue topping it. In fact, it seems a bit unhealthy if taken to the extreme, to hold oneself back from challenges just so as to preserve one's ego of always being top! A bit feeble and cowardly instead of being humble?

As many have commented, there are usually more opportunities for exposure in big ponds, and one is stretched, not just by that and committed teachers, but by those brilliant (and very fun) peers. most of my closest friends now are those I got to know in sec sch. The sch culture also moulded me into much of who I am today, the way I tackle difficulties, having more confidence in myself, in public speaking, etc.

This is applicable to sec sch, because PSLE in a way determines who will not drown completely in a big pond.

For pri sch, I believe that parents should try harder to discern their child's ability, and not get into a brand name school at all costs just because it might produce a genius out of every hot-housed child.

Personally, I'll go for a mid-range pri school, and whether my kid goes to a bigger or smaller sec sch pond after that is up to the kid's ability.

Whilst it is attractive to argue that 'the school doesn't matter' and that any neighbourhood school will do for pri and sec, more rigorous studies might show up the fallacies in that theory, since not all kids will thrive and be big fishes in small ponds. My intuition is that such studies would show that 80% of children from neighbourhood schools (talking abt those that have many many vacanices even after Phase 2C) are not big fish who are better for their experience in that school.

It's debatable whether a child who becomes part of that top few in a neighbourhood pri sch is better off (self-esteem wise in the long run?) than a child who is always mid-range in a 'better' pri sch but gets the same PSLE score (and thus same opportunities in sec sch choice) as the neighbourhood sch's top scorer.

Ultimately as a parent, you will have to decide what is best for your child's development as an individual, and overall well-being (mental and emotional stress level), based on your personal knowledge of your child that no one else has!

:goodpost:

[toddles]

thank you thank you. compliment by someone whose parenting style I admire is precious indeed!


sometimes I think this forum (and others) takes me through a lot of reflection and helps me a lot in processing my thoughts as I write them down!

[Canvas]

Chenonceau:

jedamum:

many a times, kids are clueless on what they want. they take cues from their parent's unspoken behaviour and expectations. (ok, sometimes kids also know what they want..so when is this 'sometimes' reliable?)

so is my decision going to be totally based on his welfare or am i subconsciously affected by my own preconceived decision?

To have a truly motivated kid, you need to give choices and respect them. I give my kids choices all the time. It develops judgment on their part. The kid cannot decide, but a dialogue can be started and the issue properly explored so that the child CAN decide.

Of course, there are moments when one has to over-ride. I locked away DD's laptop for a month in Sec 3 and forbade studying because she was so ill. I enforce rest days on Sundays and for 2 days before exams.

True... the unspoken family ethos plays a part. This is not something one can help. The kids live and breathe what us adults do. I don't watch TV. I get bored with TV easily. Lo and behold, for some reason, my kids also get bored with TV. I am picky with food. If it does not taste good, I would rather starve. DD has gone 3 meals without eating because I was too busy to cook, and she didn't want hawker food. I go for the best in whatever I do, even if I think I won't get it. I suppose my kids do too. I am a Christian. Unlike many Christians, I never forced my religion down their throats. I gave them a real choice... the same that my God gave me. Yet DD herself goes to church and reads the bible every night... and DS is beginning to explore the religion.

I dunno, maybe my kids make choices that I approve of because they know that I really give them a true choice. My son decided he hated Kumon, so we took him out. Then he chose to go back... why? Family ethos? Maybe, but it was his choice both ways. So he was motivated.

In the next few months, I am offering DD the choice of university (to do Psychology) or culinary school (to be a chef), and I am prepared to support her in whichever. She likes both. She and I are dialoguing on this important life decision and considering the impact on work-life, on potential earnings, on freedom from corporate slavery.... and then she will choose. And I will respect her choice.

Children haven't a clue but if we can sit down and discuss the choices before they choose.

I am sure your children really appreciate your intentions and the freedom of choice making you give them. :celebrate:

[Chenonceau]

Canvas:

I am sure your children really appreciate your intentions and the freedom of choice making you give them. :celebrate:

Actually... they don't. Choice giving (if you really do it sincerely) is 2-edged. I allow them to choose. I respect their choices. And I DO NOT protect them from the negative consequences of bad choices.

My son once decided on eating a HUGE slice of chocolate cake whilst he was recovering from a sore throat. I respected his choice and ordered NYDC's chocolate Boo-Boo for him alone. We had had a short discussion on the impact of that cake on his recovery but he made a decision and I supported him. He was miserable for 2 weeks more after that slice of cake... and we had to go back to the doctor for another round of antibiotic.

I nursed him and I tended to him but I made it very clear that every choice comes with consequences and that I am not the sort of woman to stand between his decisions and their logical consequences. He was 3 at the time and learnt early to weigh pros and cons of decisions.

When DD was in Sec 3, I commented that she was putting her finger in too many pies. \"You are too ambitious. This is not good for your body because you are not resting enough and your body may not develop properly because you are mistreating it.\" She assured me that she knew her priorities so I respected her choice. She ended up in hospital. It was only when her life was truly in danger did I step in to lock up her laptop and ground her at home for 1 month.

Logical consequences: I learnt this from a friend whose son absolutely wanted a mohawk style haircut. She respected his choice but specified that he was not to cut his hair again till the next monthly visit to the barber. Now, a mohawk cut lasts about 1 week before the hair grows long enough to kind of flop over the sides... then it grows too long for gel... and so her boy went around with a floppy mohawk for some time. Again, minor but logical consequences that teach children to hold back and think before they decide.

My DD commented to her brother one day that Mom is good at watching people dig their own graves. The problem later is that Mom insists that people lie in the graves they dug whilst she sits nearby with a cup of tea.

Nope... my kids aren't always happy that I respect their choices. These days, whenever I say \"Up to you. You decide.\" They will almost always take a step back and ask for counsel from a few other people - teachers, friends, Grandma... before they launch into their heart's desire. They've learnt to look before they leap because I don't protect them from their choices. Sometimes, they will step up close to me and look deep into my face to see if I am keeping back any reservations I might have about their choice. Sometimes, they will ask \"Mom, are you saying you support me because you really think is good, or is it because you want me to learn some lesson.\"

[Funz]

Chenonceau:

My DD commented to her brother one day that Mom is good at watching people dig their own graves. The problem later is that Mom insists that people lie in the graves they dug whilst she sits nearby with a cup of tea.

:rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Cannot help but laugh at the way your DD put it.

Yup, I do let my kids make their own choice on some small inconsequential stuff for now. No guts to gamble with more important stuff.

And when they have to face the consequences of their unwise choice, it is a challenge not to tell them 'see, I told you so' and go into a lecture of how things would have been different if they had taken my advise.

I must learn to shut up and sit down and drink my tea.

[Chenonceau]

Funz:

Chenonceau:

My DD commented to her brother one day that Mom is good at watching people dig their own graves. The problem later is that Mom insists that people lie in the graves they dug whilst she sits nearby with a cup of tea.

:rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Cannot help but laugh at the way your DD put it.

Yup, I do let my kids make their own choice on some small inconsequential stuff for now. No guts to gamble with more important stuff.

And when they have to face the consequences of their unwise choice, it is a challenge not to tell them 'see, I told you so' and go into a lecture of how things would have been different if they had taken my advise.

I must learn to shut up and sit down and drink my tea.

Same same lah... Happily though, the big stuff come later mah... career choices, boyfriends, PSLE... by that time, they have developed SOME judgment so no need worry so much.

With a cup of tea, it's easier to keep mouth shut. Something to occupy the mouth. Otherwise, sure blurt out \"I told you so\". So many times I almost gave in to the temptation. Yup... must have cup of tea handy.

[Chenonceau]

toddles:

thank you thank you. compliment by someone whose parenting style I admire is precious indeed!


sometimes I think this forum (and others) takes me through a lot of reflection and helps me a lot in processing my thoughts as I write them down!

:hi5:

[BeContented]

Funz:

Chenonceau:

My DD commented to her brother one day that Mom is good at watching people dig their own graves. The problem later is that Mom insists that people lie in the graves they dug whilst she sits nearby with a cup of tea.

:rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Cannot help but laugh at the way your DD put it.

Yup, I do let my kids make their own choice on some small inconsequential stuff for now. No guts to gamble with more important stuff.


And when they have to face the consequences of their unwise choice, it is a challenge not to tell them 'see, I told you so' and go into a lecture of how things would have been different if they had taken my advise.

I must learn to shut up and sit down and drink my tea.

Same here :rahrah:
Nothing too serious/dangerous.....let them learn some lesson, good for them