Ministerial Salary Review
-
Edureach:
This is totally incorrect! Nobody in this forum wants a minister to take up the responsibilities with low pay.
Are you sure? How about other forums? -
tankee:
Ya lah. Plus world leaders like US presidents can still make lots of money by writing books and giving talks after they step down while ours may not be able to, right?mum_sugoku:
..........
Which makes me wonder why is it that political leaders of other larger and far more developed countries eg US, Europe (particularly Germany, France, UK), Japan are able--and/or willing to accept a much lower (wrt ours) salaries while ours cannot?
because their pay is not everything. Their benefit package is much much much better.
eg in Japan, MP gets to travel FOC on their trains, MRT and even domestic flights.
But seriously, even if we were to give our politicians exactly the same perks as what Japanese politicians are enjoying, I bet the sum of money required for such perks would constitute just a fraction of the excess salaries our politicians are getting as compared with Japanese's.. -
Way2GO:
I really don't understand your beef here. Do you or do you not agree with the recommendations? Will the PM know what's going on in the committee? Of course he would! If he did not, it would be the height of incompetence and I would vote him out tomorrow.
Mine is more than a guess.tankee:
whether there are points of reference given, your guess is as good as mine.
IMHO, since PM is the one who appointed the committee, it would be unthinkable, if he did not accept the committee's recommendation like he did.
Dis is a politically sensitive issue with implications n ramifications down d road. D committee wouldn't work independently without a brief for such issue. d President n PM bite too fast for it to be non-directed n already pre-conceived.
I certainly fail to see your justification dat since d PM appoints d committee, he has to accept its recommendations?
Dis sounds like a CEO appointing his own ppl to review his renumeration package n accepting d recommendations without hesitation, ya?
So now having known what the comm is thinking, did he seek to influence it? Who knows? Perhaps yes, perhaps no. At the end of the day, he needs to live with the financial and political fall-out from the decision, so what's the big deal either way?
Let me throw you a wild card. Perhaps, just perhaps, he was afraid the comm would be too timid in making the cuts, and personally intervened to get the benchmark lower. How about that? My guess, completely unsubstantiated..... -
wow...conspiracy theory at work....
Sounds like a story good for bestseller....kekeke -
I am happy just reading your views, and I have nothing to say but these:
mum_sugoku:
:hi5:I remember one reason they cited for the ultra high salaries is that people cannot expect them to \"sacrifice too much\" for going into politics...
ksi:
The main difference in our views is I still hold some faith in the values of mankind but you seem to have completely lost faith in that and taking the safer route of paying obscenely to see results. It is true you have named all the right people for your argument but you have forgotten people like Gandhi and Sun Yat-Sen and I agree with you people like them are scarce. I don't think fame, power, riches were ever on their minds. It is documented that Gandhi's belief in Truth and Love which he learned at a tender age was his driving force behind what he did and Sun was influenced by Christianity. So value system plays a strong role in a person's life and you are probably right to assume that it is going down a declining curve hence the skepticism of people having that 'special spirit'. No doubt Gandhi did not end well as he was assassinated, he is nevertheless a Great Man and a legend. I don't think we can expect everyone to be like a Gandhi too, that would be far fetched but with still a very good package, just inferior to the previous one, I think we can expect a teeny-weeny fraction of Gandhi's mindset for the nation from the ministers to be effective in their roles.
Also people can tell if one manages with the heart for people or with their pockets...
Edureach:
:hugs:A political office holder is a stateman, a role model that the public trust and look upon to lead a nation. No other job not even the most challenging jobs in the biggest companies can ever come near in terms of responsibilities and its impact on a nation.As such, political office is more of a calling than a career. Imagine if our nation was once led by people who regarded a minister's job as a career in earlier days? Singapore would never progress this far if not for the personal sacrifices of our earlier PAP leaders whom had enjoyed strong support of the people.
Chenonceau:
Singular opinions are never good. Diversity and richness of perspectives are critical to good governance. Welcome Chen Show Mao.
Strparent:
err, tankee ar, :oops:tankee:
eg in Japan, MP gets to travel FOC on their trains, MRT and even domestic flights.
in Jingapor, MP rarely need to travel on trains, MRT or buses....and no domestic flights, except iFly at Sentosa ( not sure if they can go for free )
Mdm Koh:
:evil:The real question, do we really believe that our political leaders do not have other sources of income, besides their pay and bonuses as Ministers?
3Boys:
:? :scratchhead:There are lots of excellent doctors, surgeons and the like, who have the poorest bedside manners and some of them I suspect have little patience for patients. But they can be darn good at what they do and have no shortage of clientele.
The corollary is that a poorly skilled doctor can get away with a lot of mistakes if he has excellent patient skills. This has been proven over and over again.
Question is, which do you prefer?
:moneyflies: :moneyflies: :lightrod:
-
HVR:
Please continue to do so. It's refreshing to read objective, balanced, thoughtful and considered views on Internet nowsaday.3Boys:
Just speaking my mind.....as usual.....
3Boys
yes, I always enjoy reading your posts too, very articulate, thoughtful and objective. :salute:
but balanced ? :evil: :evil: .....sometimes
On the subject of 'positions', most of us here are in the middle position anyway.
We are not like the extreme group like SDP and NSP who keep calling for more cuts, nor those unreasonable group of unhappy no-matter-what netizens who wants the Ministers to earn the equal wage as my neighbourhood charkwayteow uncle.
But I am also not in the 'the-present-situation-suits-me-so-I-don't-want-to-rock-the-boat' type or the 'if-it-aint-broke-why-fix-it' group.3Boys:
There is a slippery slope here that I am really wary about. We are all aware generally of intended consequences, quite often what we do not appreciate, until too late, are the unintended consequences.
3Boys:
People get the government they deserve....we'll be getting ours very soon, one that we 'deserve'.
ksi:
sorry, but your comments seem to imply any change will be for the worse, and like ksi said about the puffer fish and the k drama - if you dont try, how would you know ? Anyway, I do not believe we will have a one-party government either way, not PAP, not WP. We simply need someone to assist to ensure accountability and to make sure the other party does not cross the line so easily.
Actually k drama has been realistic in many ways, if you don't watch, you won't know. You cannot say you know how puffer fish taste if you have never tried it right even if you know how fish taste? Seriously, try it.3Boys:
It is a drama my friend......one that feeds an unrealistic scenario to a gullible audience.
coming back to the main topic,
again, I am with you on PM Lee's commitment to the nation. Many people forget that he actually declared that he will donate the last increase in his pay ( about $600,000 annually ) to charity for 5 years starting in 2007. So effectively, he has had the same wage of $2.46m for the past 4 years, though officially the PM wage scale is set at $3.09m. Now the MSR has proposed it to be $2.2m p.a. To be fair, it is not a huge sum, though not peanuts either.
My personal objection previously was the wages of the ministers in his team. We know they can make mega bucks in the private sector, but this is different and we need people who can lead as well as have the right mind-set.3Boys:
I find this concept of 'special spirit to serve' nebulous and subjective. Are we looking for a truly altruistic person who deems all else unimportant EXCEPT service to the nation? How many of those exist? How sure can we be of his motives, that although he not be driven by money, can he be in it for fame then, lust for power, some warped sense of righteousness? One man's spirit is another's poison.
Give me a strong competent technocrat and pay him CEO salaries in my view, far more transparent and less potential for harm. This is my very far right view, a minority.ksi:
for me, ( I may be wrong of course ) you seem to advocate the ' better the devil we know' stance, which I do not agree. Like ksi, I do believe there are sincere, right mindset, capable people out there willing to serve the nation..... at these proposed remunerationThe main difference in our views is I still hold some faith in the values of mankind but you seem to have completely lost faith in that and taking the safer route of paying obscenely to see results.
people can tell if one manages with the heart for people or with their pockets.
pardon me if I come across too harsh in any way :spank: -
mum_sugoku:
Ya lah. Plus world leaders like US presidents can still make lots of money by writing books and giving talks after they step down while ours may not be able to, right?tankee:
[quote=\"mum_sugoku\"]..........
Which makes me wonder why is it that political leaders of other larger and far more developed countries eg US, Europe (particularly Germany, France, UK), Japan are able--and/or willing to accept a much lower (wrt ours) salaries while ours cannot?
because their pay is not everything. Their benefit package is much much much better.
eg in Japan, MP gets to travel FOC on their trains, MRT and even domestic flights.
But seriously, even if we were to give our politicians exactly the same perks as what Japanese politicians are enjoying, I bet the sum of money required for such perks would constitute just a fraction of the excess salaries our politicians are getting as compared with Japanese's..[/quote]Would you rather earn your living by being mentor minister or having to write books and give talks to earn a living? :evil: I think we have provided for our past PMs and they are in no way worse off than other politicians after stepping down from their roles. -
I don’t see the problem. The pay is cut. 3boys likes that. The technocrats are still there. stparent is ok with that. Nice middle ground. Come down to it, every technocrat has feelings too what… because human mah.
Unless you’re saying any one of our technocrats are robots?
My hazy memory recalls a passage from Proust that has for me defined what is true service to the world. From Proust: It is the nun, curt and busy, who manages her domain with efficiency year in and year out. She is not one to dissolve into excesses of emotion nor easily overcome by charitable urges of the MOMENT. Those are for the easy dilettantes who see misery once in a while and does good once in a while. The nun it is who sees misery everyday and identifies spots where the need is great and bends limited time and resources thereto. She has no resources to feel sympathy because all her resources are bent towards DOING something about misery. Don’t expect any fawning. Her charity and her kindnesses are DECISIONS made having considered the sum total of the difference she can make to others… and how important this difference is to her.
However, these DECISIONS are made with feeling. I am sure that Lee Hsien Loong FELT for Singaporeans. I have met MPs who truly FEEL for people. There are others who don’t. These will examine themselves and WALK. We will wave them a gentle goodbye and keep our counsel of who and what they are.
I like Lee Hsien Loong, my Proustian nun. -
Chenonceau:
Correction: To be precise of his view, 3boys is not liking it but sees it as a necessary evil from a political viewpoint. He is reminding us to watch out for the negative consequences of such a change.I don't see the problem. The pay is cut. 3boys likes that. The technocrats are still there. stparent is ok with that. Nice middle ground. Come down to it, every technocrat has feelings too what... because human mah.
-
3Boys:
Nopie Ksi-rie... he likes it. Said so himself up there...Its a right thing the g'ment has done, and it needed to be done. It goes a long way, but is still only a start, in beginning to re-engage disaffected citizenry, wrought by their tin-ear and cynical politicking. They've had their comeuppance, and they are now paying for it, literally and deservedly.
What am I uncomfortable about is the notion that our political leaders need to be monks. I grant that I am depicting the picture in a over-simplified way, and many of you have more nuance in your positions, which is great. However, predictably enough, there are already plentiful calls that this does not go far enough, or does not matter enough. There is a slippery slope here that I am really wary about. We are all aware generally of intended consequences, quite often what we do not appreciate, until too late, are the unintended consequences.
He just doesn't approve of monks in government. Maybe he'll like Proustian nuns ya think?
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login