Ministerial Salary Review
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HVR:
Please continue to do so. It's refreshing to read objective, balanced, thoughtful and considered views on Internet nowsaday.3Boys:
Just speaking my mind.....as usual.....
3Boys
yes, I always enjoy reading your posts too, very articulate, thoughtful and objective. :salute:
but balanced ? :evil: :evil: .....sometimes
On the subject of 'positions', most of us here are in the middle position anyway.
We are not like the extreme group like SDP and NSP who keep calling for more cuts, nor those unreasonable group of unhappy no-matter-what netizens who wants the Ministers to earn the equal wage as my neighbourhood charkwayteow uncle.
But I am also not in the 'the-present-situation-suits-me-so-I-don't-want-to-rock-the-boat' type or the 'if-it-aint-broke-why-fix-it' group.3Boys:
There is a slippery slope here that I am really wary about. We are all aware generally of intended consequences, quite often what we do not appreciate, until too late, are the unintended consequences.
3Boys:
People get the government they deserve....we'll be getting ours very soon, one that we 'deserve'.
ksi:
sorry, but your comments seem to imply any change will be for the worse, and like ksi said about the puffer fish and the k drama - if you dont try, how would you know ? Anyway, I do not believe we will have a one-party government either way, not PAP, not WP. We simply need someone to assist to ensure accountability and to make sure the other party does not cross the line so easily.
Actually k drama has been realistic in many ways, if you don't watch, you won't know. You cannot say you know how puffer fish taste if you have never tried it right even if you know how fish taste? Seriously, try it.3Boys:
It is a drama my friend......one that feeds an unrealistic scenario to a gullible audience.
coming back to the main topic,
again, I am with you on PM Lee's commitment to the nation. Many people forget that he actually declared that he will donate the last increase in his pay ( about $600,000 annually ) to charity for 5 years starting in 2007. So effectively, he has had the same wage of $2.46m for the past 4 years, though officially the PM wage scale is set at $3.09m. Now the MSR has proposed it to be $2.2m p.a. To be fair, it is not a huge sum, though not peanuts either.
My personal objection previously was the wages of the ministers in his team. We know they can make mega bucks in the private sector, but this is different and we need people who can lead as well as have the right mind-set.3Boys:
I find this concept of 'special spirit to serve' nebulous and subjective. Are we looking for a truly altruistic person who deems all else unimportant EXCEPT service to the nation? How many of those exist? How sure can we be of his motives, that although he not be driven by money, can he be in it for fame then, lust for power, some warped sense of righteousness? One man's spirit is another's poison.
Give me a strong competent technocrat and pay him CEO salaries in my view, far more transparent and less potential for harm. This is my very far right view, a minority.ksi:
for me, ( I may be wrong of course ) you seem to advocate the ' better the devil we know' stance, which I do not agree. Like ksi, I do believe there are sincere, right mindset, capable people out there willing to serve the nation..... at these proposed remunerationThe main difference in our views is I still hold some faith in the values of mankind but you seem to have completely lost faith in that and taking the safer route of paying obscenely to see results.
people can tell if one manages with the heart for people or with their pockets.
pardon me if I come across too harsh in any way :spank: -
mum_sugoku:
Ya lah. Plus world leaders like US presidents can still make lots of money by writing books and giving talks after they step down while ours may not be able to, right?tankee:
[quote=\"mum_sugoku\"]..........
Which makes me wonder why is it that political leaders of other larger and far more developed countries eg US, Europe (particularly Germany, France, UK), Japan are able--and/or willing to accept a much lower (wrt ours) salaries while ours cannot?
because their pay is not everything. Their benefit package is much much much better.
eg in Japan, MP gets to travel FOC on their trains, MRT and even domestic flights.
But seriously, even if we were to give our politicians exactly the same perks as what Japanese politicians are enjoying, I bet the sum of money required for such perks would constitute just a fraction of the excess salaries our politicians are getting as compared with Japanese's..[/quote]Would you rather earn your living by being mentor minister or having to write books and give talks to earn a living? :evil: I think we have provided for our past PMs and they are in no way worse off than other politicians after stepping down from their roles. -
I don’t see the problem. The pay is cut. 3boys likes that. The technocrats are still there. stparent is ok with that. Nice middle ground. Come down to it, every technocrat has feelings too what… because human mah.
Unless you’re saying any one of our technocrats are robots?
My hazy memory recalls a passage from Proust that has for me defined what is true service to the world. From Proust: It is the nun, curt and busy, who manages her domain with efficiency year in and year out. She is not one to dissolve into excesses of emotion nor easily overcome by charitable urges of the MOMENT. Those are for the easy dilettantes who see misery once in a while and does good once in a while. The nun it is who sees misery everyday and identifies spots where the need is great and bends limited time and resources thereto. She has no resources to feel sympathy because all her resources are bent towards DOING something about misery. Don’t expect any fawning. Her charity and her kindnesses are DECISIONS made having considered the sum total of the difference she can make to others… and how important this difference is to her.
However, these DECISIONS are made with feeling. I am sure that Lee Hsien Loong FELT for Singaporeans. I have met MPs who truly FEEL for people. There are others who don’t. These will examine themselves and WALK. We will wave them a gentle goodbye and keep our counsel of who and what they are.
I like Lee Hsien Loong, my Proustian nun. -
Chenonceau:
Correction: To be precise of his view, 3boys is not liking it but sees it as a necessary evil from a political viewpoint. He is reminding us to watch out for the negative consequences of such a change.I don't see the problem. The pay is cut. 3boys likes that. The technocrats are still there. stparent is ok with that. Nice middle ground. Come down to it, every technocrat has feelings too what... because human mah.
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3Boys:
Nopie Ksi-rie... he likes it. Said so himself up there...Its a right thing the g'ment has done, and it needed to be done. It goes a long way, but is still only a start, in beginning to re-engage disaffected citizenry, wrought by their tin-ear and cynical politicking. They've had their comeuppance, and they are now paying for it, literally and deservedly.
What am I uncomfortable about is the notion that our political leaders need to be monks. I grant that I am depicting the picture in a over-simplified way, and many of you have more nuance in your positions, which is great. However, predictably enough, there are already plentiful calls that this does not go far enough, or does not matter enough. There is a slippery slope here that I am really wary about. We are all aware generally of intended consequences, quite often what we do not appreciate, until too late, are the unintended consequences.
He just doesn't approve of monks in government. Maybe he'll like Proustian nuns ya think? -
Chenonceau:
A bit of both lah......
Nopie Ksi-rie... he likes it. Said so himself up there...3Boys:
Its a right thing the g'ment has done, and it needed to be done. It goes a long way, but is still only a start, in beginning to re-engage disaffected citizenry, wrought by their tin-ear and cynical politicking. They've had their comeuppance, and they are now paying for it, literally and deservedly.
What am I uncomfortable about is the notion that our political leaders need to be monks. I grant that I am depicting the picture in a over-simplified way, and many of you have more nuance in your positions, which is great. However, predictably enough, there are already plentiful calls that this does not go far enough, or does not matter enough. There is a slippery slope here that I am really wary about. We are all aware generally of intended consequences, quite often what we do not appreciate, until too late, are the unintended consequences.
He just doesn't approve of monks in government. Maybe he'll like Proustian nuns ya think? -
3Boys:
A bit of both lah......[/quote]Dear... you CAN'T have half a monk and half a nun. That's a travesty of nature.
Nopie Ksi-rie... he likes it. Said so himself up there...Chenonceau:
[quote=\"3Boys\"]Its a right thing the g'ment has done, and it needed to be done. It goes a long way, but is still only a start, in beginning to re-engage disaffected citizenry, wrought by their tin-ear and cynical politicking. They've had their comeuppance, and they are now paying for it, literally and deservedly.
What am I uncomfortable about is the notion that our political leaders need to be monks. I grant that I am depicting the picture in a over-simplified way, and many of you have more nuance in your positions, which is great. However, predictably enough, there are already plentiful calls that this does not go far enough, or does not matter enough. There is a slippery slope here that I am really wary about. We are all aware generally of intended consequences, quite often what we do not appreciate, until too late, are the unintended consequences.
He just doesn't approve of monks in government. Maybe he'll like Proustian nuns ya think? -
Chenonceau:
Monks these days seem to be doing pretty well. The monk DH engaged to do some rites for late FIL drives a Lexus RX300 and uses the latest iPhone. :razz:
Nopie Ksi-rie... he likes it. Said so himself up there...
He just doesn't approve of monks in government. Maybe he'll like Proustian nuns ya think?
ooops of topic liao and threading on thin ice :siam: -
Funz:
Ming Yi hah?
Monks these days seem to be doing pretty well. The monk DH engaged to do some rites for late FIL drives a Lexus RX300 and uses the latest iPhone. :razz:Chenonceau:
Nopie Ksi-rie... he likes it. Said so himself up there...
He just doesn't approve of monks in government. Maybe he'll like Proustian nuns ya think?
ooops of topic liao and threading on thin ice :siam: -
Funz:
Wa biang! I am sooooo against all these materialism for monks(or nuns). Can or cannot, also self-say （可以不可以都是自己说！） :rant:
Monks these days seem to be doing pretty well. The monk DH engaged to do some rites for late FIL drives a Lexus RX300 and uses the latest iPhone. :razz:Chenonceau:
Nopie Ksi-rie... he likes it. Said so himself up there...
He just doesn't approve of monks in government. Maybe he'll like Proustian nuns ya think?
ooops of topic liao and threading on thin ice :siam:
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