All About Choosing and Buying Pianos

[reddiechan]

jce:

Baby Grands - no point. The YUS5 is basically an upright grand, having the height of an baby grand but in the form of an upright, if I'm not mistaken. Grands must be at least 6 ft otherwise not a big diff.

You're quite right about 'true grands' being those more than 6 ft.

Although people in the industry often call those uprights that are more than 130cm 'upright grand', the real difference lie in the mechanism by which the hammers strike the strings. Uprights are, after all, an improvisation of grands due to lack of space in modern homes. The mechanism is somewhat less straightforward when compared with a grand - the hammers in the latter group strike the strings following the natural laws of gravity (i.e. 'fall into place'), thereby affording grands a faster action that better upright makers try to emulate. By that technology, I believe the Kawai legacy (the founder, who, incidentally, is said to have learnt his skills at Yamaha) has further innovated with its ultra-light carbon structure which helps to make the hammer action more responsive. However, that's just knowing what goes underneath the hood. Honestly I couldn't tell the difference in key action when I tried on a Kawai - I could only tell the difference in tone - the Kawai series is unmistakeably mellow. The other thing was because there wasn't a Kawai and Yamaha piano placed side-by-side for comparison. A professional pianist could possibly be able to tell the subtle difference.

Of course, grands do sound so much better and louder because of the sheer length of their strings, and the fact that few people play them with the sound board closed, like what we usually do with an upright.

I understand that at Diploma level, the action of the keys and the ability of the instrument to manifest several different degrees of loudness is important. That seemed to be the main reason for diploma students to buy grands, besides, of course, the aesthetic one.

Then again, if the student wishes to quit right after attaining G8, it could be indicative of a lack of passion in this area. If I may ask, why the decision to buy a new piano at this stage then?

[moomoo138]

Tks reddiechan & jce, for your advice.


Planned to upgrade our Yamaha piano ever since our piano tuner told us many years back that it can only support till G4. But since we know nothing much about choosing a piano and uncertain if our DS is keen in learning then, so we left the plan dangling till now... after 'several' complaints from DS recently about the sound produced by his current piano that we decided to act on it.

Honestly, many thanks, picked up so much knowledge abt pianos and way to select... really appreciate it!! Currently, I'm comparing between Yamaha U1 ($8,800) and Petrof P118 ($7,800) due to their pricing. Please share your opinion, if any, concerning these 2 pianos, i.e., which is a better buy? Tks!!!

[moomoo138]

Both the sale person in PianoMaster and DS’s music teacher told us that, putting other criteria (e.g., $$) aside, liking the sound, touch & feel of the piano is the utmost importance when deciding which piano to buy. So most likely will bring DS to PianoMaster to have a try-out.


How’s PianoMaster by the way? Reliable? Tks!

[iRabbit]

jce:

Baby Grands - no point. The YUS5 is basically an upright grand, having the height of an baby grand but in the form of an upright, if I'm not mistaken. Grands must be at least 6 ft otherwise not a big diff.

Personally i find any grand shorter than 6ft is funny in shape. Just my perception, though I read at one piano forum previously that the action of an upright will never beat a grand - even baby grands - as a grand uses gravity for the keys to fall back and that's supposed to be the best for control.

Of course the other 'advantage' a baby grand has is that - this is another of my untested theory - nothing inspires a learner more than playing a grand piano. I'm quite sure ds will be fascinated watching all the hammerheads bouncing about in the piano if he gets a grand to practise on.

[summer247]

Hi, letting go of a 2 year old black wilhem tell piano(125cm-exam model) @ 50% off. original price at 5900. will be selling at 3k.

condition is very good, with heater on 24/hr(only need tuning). cover, piano wax and around 4-5 piano books for beginners can be included for free(written in pencil, can be rubbed off). anybody interested can pm me.

[reddiechan]

moomoo138:

Both the sale person in PianoMaster and DS's music teacher told us that, putting other criteria (e.g., $$) aside, liking the sound, touch & feel of the piano is the utmost importance when deciding which piano to buy. So most likely will bring DS to PianoMaster to have a try-out.


How's PianoMaster by the way? Reliable? Tks!

So have you finally decided? Curious :?

[moomoo138]

Nope… went down to PianoMaster the other day… Tried Petrof P118, seems ok. But after trying P125 and P135, DS has a change of heart cos they really sounded so different and so much better. Even DH felt the same way. But of course, even with discount provided, the price tags are still way above our budget for these 2 models. Anyway, all 3 models are temporarily out of stock. ETA for new shipment is around CNY period, which gives us abit of time to shop around and reconsider our choices.


Like the way DH put it, probably ‘Lady Luck’ may help us decide which model to get by visiting us on either Sat or Sun lor… hahaha…

BTW, many thanks for your advices and help… : )

[jopej]

Hi everyone,


I am shopping for a piano for my children (9 and 7). After shopping at Piano Master, Cristofori, Jeslyn Piano World and Rener Piano, I am more confused than clear. The only conclusion I gotten is that Pearl River and Cristofori pianos do not sound good.

Would greatly appreciate if anyone can shed some light to the questions below.

1) Reading from internet and hearing from the sales from Renner, Yamaha pianos are no longer made in Japan. All are from Indo or China. Is that true? Or only selected models from Japan?

2) When shopping, I saw some pianos which are only few years old but the mechanism inside looks damp and dusty while I saw some >10 year old pianos which internally seems new. Is it because they are recon?

3) Why are people buying >20 years old Yamaha or Kawai? Isn’t it natural that they will wear and tear and they would have changed many hands and many reconditions which eventually = Made in Singapore? Is it really worth the risk to pay >$5k for them especially when I can see so many ran down, upside down and abandon pianos in the 2nd hand shop. It gives me the impression that the 2nd hand shops did a lot of changes to the old pianos before reselling them.

4) Can we trust the warranty from the 2nd hand dealers? How many of them closed down recently? Any so-called established and reputable ones?

5) When recommending us the Hailun, the sales person compared the sound with a second hand Yamaha U1 and a Petrof. Its quite obvious that HL125 has a better sound than U1 and Petrof is the best among the 3. The difference is significant even an amateur like me can tell. Is that just a sales gimmick? Could it be that the Yamaha in the showroom has some problem?

6) Is the material of the wood structure important? The sales from Cristofori told us that all new pianos are now made using MDF processed wood which is more termite resistance. Anyone knows the material used to make the new Yamaha, Kawai and Hailun.

Having a headache now. hahaha. Please help. thanks.

[reddiechan]

Hi jopej, thought I might just put in my 2-cents worth while my piano-shopping experience is still fresh in my mind. I'm no piano-expert though, just someone who'd gone through the same thing recently and read up on quite some forums.

[quote]1) Reading from internet and hearing from the sales from Renner, Yamaha pianos are no longer made in Japan. All are from Indo or China. Is that true? Or only selected models from Japan? [/quote]Some of the Yamaha models are still made in Japan. These include the U1, U3, YUS5, GC grand piano series.
[quote]2) When shopping, I saw some pianos which are only few years old but the mechanism inside looks damp and dusty while I saw some >10 year old pianos which internally seems new. Is it because they are recon? [/quote]Most likely. There are quite some good technicians who can virtually revamp the whole instrument and adjust accordingly and work some magic. You can't really be sure whether the recon-ed one is better or the original. What matters is how the piano feel and sound *now*.
[quote]3) Why are people buying >20 years old Yamaha or Kawai?...[/quote]Perhaps based on recommendations (by salesperson/teachers)? And the fact that you literally save thousands buying the same model that's 2nd hand. Also, some say the quality of wood used for newer pianos suffer quite a bit. For quality Yamaha/Kawai pianos, there's a good 20-30 years still to the product. I was at one time considering buying from this 2nd hand piano dealer at IMM because of the Kawai K6/K8 and YUS series that the company has. The salesperson was a former piano teacher who can demo and play impressively well, but some of the pianos she marked out to me as worthy of consideration did not sound so to me.
[quote]4) Can we trust the warranty from the 2nd hand dealers? How many of them closed down recently? Any so-called established and reputable ones?[/quote]There are quite some good ones around. There's also other dealers (Asia Piano, Mun Kai Piano etc) who have been around for many years and highly recommended by word of mouth.
[quote]5) When recommending us the Hailun, the sales person compared the sound with a second hand Yamaha U1 and a Petrof. Its quite obvious that HL125 has a better sound than U1 and Petrof is the best among the 3. The difference is significant even an amateur like me can tell. Is that just a sales gimmick? Could it be that the Yamaha in the showroom has some problem?[/quote]
The sound quality and tone of different makes of pianos is different. Whether it's better would depend on one's preference. The action on a Yamaha is generally crisp and lighter and tone is bright (which differs from piano to piano, again). You'd need to test pieces with a larger range of sounds, with fast and slow action, to compare and find the quality you like in each piano. You'd have to bear in mind, also, that the pianos used for examinations are usually Yamaha U1 or U3.
[quote]6) Is the material of the wood structure important? The sales from Cristofori told us that all new pianos are now made using MDF processed wood which is more termite resistance. Anyone knows the material used to make the new Yamaha, Kawai and Hailun. [/quote]This part I'm not savvy. Most other piano makers seemed to have told me the same thing. But I read somewhere that bugs don't like vibrations. If your piano is often used, bugs tend to stay away.

[cnimed]

Petrof has a distinctive sound which we usually don’t hear much of since most of the pianos here are yamahas. I have a petrof, but I also think it’s clear that the yamaha Pianomaster use for demonstration is not the best one around. Obviously when playing, the person will also not play on it as "lovingly", kwim? You can go to the yamaha showroom to listen for a more accurate comparison. All the salespeople will tend to bang on the pianos that they are not actively promoting.


Personally I find the 20+ yr old yamahas and kawais not worth the hefty price tag. When you go to the yamaha showroom, they will have some second hand ones. Compare the sound with the new ones and you will have an idea of the potential deterioration.