All About Choosing and Buying Pianos

[iRabbit]

jce:

Baby Grands - no point. The YUS5 is basically an upright grand, having the height of an baby grand but in the form of an upright, if I'm not mistaken. Grands must be at least 6 ft otherwise not a big diff.

Personally i find any grand shorter than 6ft is funny in shape. Just my perception, though I read at one piano forum previously that the action of an upright will never beat a grand - even baby grands - as a grand uses gravity for the keys to fall back and that's supposed to be the best for control.

Of course the other 'advantage' a baby grand has is that - this is another of my untested theory - nothing inspires a learner more than playing a grand piano. I'm quite sure ds will be fascinated watching all the hammerheads bouncing about in the piano if he gets a grand to practise on.

[summer247]

Hi, letting go of a 2 year old black wilhem tell piano(125cm-exam model) @ 50% off. original price at 5900. will be selling at 3k.

condition is very good, with heater on 24/hr(only need tuning). cover, piano wax and around 4-5 piano books for beginners can be included for free(written in pencil, can be rubbed off). anybody interested can pm me.

[reddiechan]

moomoo138:

Both the sale person in PianoMaster and DS's music teacher told us that, putting other criteria (e.g., $$) aside, liking the sound, touch & feel of the piano is the utmost importance when deciding which piano to buy. So most likely will bring DS to PianoMaster to have a try-out.


How's PianoMaster by the way? Reliable? Tks!

So have you finally decided? Curious :?

[moomoo138]

Nope… went down to PianoMaster the other day… Tried Petrof P118, seems ok. But after trying P125 and P135, DS has a change of heart cos they really sounded so different and so much better. Even DH felt the same way. But of course, even with discount provided, the price tags are still way above our budget for these 2 models. Anyway, all 3 models are temporarily out of stock. ETA for new shipment is around CNY period, which gives us abit of time to shop around and reconsider our choices.


Like the way DH put it, probably ‘Lady Luck’ may help us decide which model to get by visiting us on either Sat or Sun lor… hahaha…

BTW, many thanks for your advices and help… : )

[jopej]

Hi everyone,


I am shopping for a piano for my children (9 and 7). After shopping at Piano Master, Cristofori, Jeslyn Piano World and Rener Piano, I am more confused than clear. The only conclusion I gotten is that Pearl River and Cristofori pianos do not sound good.

Would greatly appreciate if anyone can shed some light to the questions below.

1) Reading from internet and hearing from the sales from Renner, Yamaha pianos are no longer made in Japan. All are from Indo or China. Is that true? Or only selected models from Japan?

2) When shopping, I saw some pianos which are only few years old but the mechanism inside looks damp and dusty while I saw some >10 year old pianos which internally seems new. Is it because they are recon?

3) Why are people buying >20 years old Yamaha or Kawai? Isn’t it natural that they will wear and tear and they would have changed many hands and many reconditions which eventually = Made in Singapore? Is it really worth the risk to pay >$5k for them especially when I can see so many ran down, upside down and abandon pianos in the 2nd hand shop. It gives me the impression that the 2nd hand shops did a lot of changes to the old pianos before reselling them.

4) Can we trust the warranty from the 2nd hand dealers? How many of them closed down recently? Any so-called established and reputable ones?

5) When recommending us the Hailun, the sales person compared the sound with a second hand Yamaha U1 and a Petrof. Its quite obvious that HL125 has a better sound than U1 and Petrof is the best among the 3. The difference is significant even an amateur like me can tell. Is that just a sales gimmick? Could it be that the Yamaha in the showroom has some problem?

6) Is the material of the wood structure important? The sales from Cristofori told us that all new pianos are now made using MDF processed wood which is more termite resistance. Anyone knows the material used to make the new Yamaha, Kawai and Hailun.

Having a headache now. hahaha. Please help. thanks.

[reddiechan]

Hi jopej, thought I might just put in my 2-cents worth while my piano-shopping experience is still fresh in my mind. I'm no piano-expert though, just someone who'd gone through the same thing recently and read up on quite some forums.

[quote]1) Reading from internet and hearing from the sales from Renner, Yamaha pianos are no longer made in Japan. All are from Indo or China. Is that true? Or only selected models from Japan? [/quote]Some of the Yamaha models are still made in Japan. These include the U1, U3, YUS5, GC grand piano series.
[quote]2) When shopping, I saw some pianos which are only few years old but the mechanism inside looks damp and dusty while I saw some >10 year old pianos which internally seems new. Is it because they are recon? [/quote]Most likely. There are quite some good technicians who can virtually revamp the whole instrument and adjust accordingly and work some magic. You can't really be sure whether the recon-ed one is better or the original. What matters is how the piano feel and sound *now*.
[quote]3) Why are people buying >20 years old Yamaha or Kawai?...[/quote]Perhaps based on recommendations (by salesperson/teachers)? And the fact that you literally save thousands buying the same model that's 2nd hand. Also, some say the quality of wood used for newer pianos suffer quite a bit. For quality Yamaha/Kawai pianos, there's a good 20-30 years still to the product. I was at one time considering buying from this 2nd hand piano dealer at IMM because of the Kawai K6/K8 and YUS series that the company has. The salesperson was a former piano teacher who can demo and play impressively well, but some of the pianos she marked out to me as worthy of consideration did not sound so to me.
[quote]4) Can we trust the warranty from the 2nd hand dealers? How many of them closed down recently? Any so-called established and reputable ones?[/quote]There are quite some good ones around. There's also other dealers (Asia Piano, Mun Kai Piano etc) who have been around for many years and highly recommended by word of mouth.
[quote]5) When recommending us the Hailun, the sales person compared the sound with a second hand Yamaha U1 and a Petrof. Its quite obvious that HL125 has a better sound than U1 and Petrof is the best among the 3. The difference is significant even an amateur like me can tell. Is that just a sales gimmick? Could it be that the Yamaha in the showroom has some problem?[/quote]
The sound quality and tone of different makes of pianos is different. Whether it's better would depend on one's preference. The action on a Yamaha is generally crisp and lighter and tone is bright (which differs from piano to piano, again). You'd need to test pieces with a larger range of sounds, with fast and slow action, to compare and find the quality you like in each piano. You'd have to bear in mind, also, that the pianos used for examinations are usually Yamaha U1 or U3.
[quote]6) Is the material of the wood structure important? The sales from Cristofori told us that all new pianos are now made using MDF processed wood which is more termite resistance. Anyone knows the material used to make the new Yamaha, Kawai and Hailun. [/quote]This part I'm not savvy. Most other piano makers seemed to have told me the same thing. But I read somewhere that bugs don't like vibrations. If your piano is often used, bugs tend to stay away.

[cnimed]

Petrof has a distinctive sound which we usually don’t hear much of since most of the pianos here are yamahas. I have a petrof, but I also think it’s clear that the yamaha Pianomaster use for demonstration is not the best one around. Obviously when playing, the person will also not play on it as "lovingly", kwim? You can go to the yamaha showroom to listen for a more accurate comparison. All the salespeople will tend to bang on the pianos that they are not actively promoting.


Personally I find the 20+ yr old yamahas and kawais not worth the hefty price tag. When you go to the yamaha showroom, they will have some second hand ones. Compare the sound with the new ones and you will have an idea of the potential deterioration.

[jopej]

Thank you reddie and deminc for the advice. After calling a few more second hand dealers, I am still quite skeptical. One of the salesman told me that the 20-30 year old Yamaha piano are all in original condition, meaning that their parts has not changed for that long! Is it really possible that the parts do not wear and tear. Such information from the salesman raises more doubt then helped.


Honestly, while shopping around, I see so many Yamaha and Kawai in the second hand shops, some of them collected dust, many second hand shops are now one-man show which don’t gives you a feeling that the piano market is so red hot that the stock can be cleared that fast. I may even dare to speculate that the pianos there may have their heater off for the past few years! Are the expansive second hand pianos really worth it? If the Yamaha and Kawai second hand market is bad, then will there still be any resale value? Without the resale value, why pay for a brand new Yamaha U1 which cost double the price of a brand new China brand and in the end, both potentially has no resale value.

Any comments?

[Dreamaurora]

jopej:

Thank you reddie and deminc for the advice. After calling a few more second hand dealers, I am still quite skeptical. One of the salesman told me that the 20-30 year old Yamaha piano are all in original condition, meaning that their parts has not changed for that long! Is it really possible that the parts do not wear and tear. Such information from the salesman raises more doubt then helped.


Honestly, while shopping around, I see so many Yamaha and Kawai in the second hand shops, some of them collected dust, many second hand shops are now one-man show which don't gives you a feeling that the piano market is so red hot that the stock can be cleared that fast. I may even dare to speculate that the pianos there may have their heater off for the past few years! Are the expansive second hand pianos really worth it? If the Yamaha and Kawai second hand market is bad, then will there still be any resale value? Without the resale value, why pay for a brand new Yamaha U1 which cost double the price of a brand new China brand and in the end, both potentially has no resale value.

Any comments?

It really depends. A brand new piano is of course the best solution for the really serious student as the actions will be in tip top condition and the tone not too bright yet. This will allow precise control of tone and dynamics required for that finer level of interpretation. For 2nd hand piano, it is rare that the piano will be in mint condition. So far all 2nd hand pianos I tried had some flaws. But not to worry, a skillful tuner could recondition the piano e.g. adjust the actions, replace the felts, do some oiling etc.

[reddiechan]

Yes, I agree with Dreamaurora. The 2nd hand pianos I’ve tried so far are far from perfect. You’d probably have to check back often to catch the good stuff, which may be picked out quite quickly. Usually I’d test the upper and lower ranges, press all the pedals while playing and try out the limits. If the instrument was good, then some aesthetic aspect would be lacking e.g. some damages to the cover, sides. Quite invariably, there’d be some creaking sounds somewhere during testing.


Just a note that not all China pianos are created equal (as it is with most other makes from other countries). You’ve probably tried the best ones and took that as the standard. I’ve tried quite some other China-made pianos as well as those branded with European names, but the quality is somehow just unbelievably similar. You could almost recognise one by the looks and touch.

From what I understand, the U1 is the most sell-able model in the used piano market. That means, if you decide to place one out in the market, you’re very likely to fetch a good price and have lots of interest in it, especially if you’re the first owner. Of course, the absolute amount of depreciation is also considerably high.