Parents, not enrichment centres, are key to result

[coast]

ksi:

Chenonceau:

[quote=\"wonderm\"]
I agree with many things you said such as better teaching in school will reduce the reliance on external tuition. But I guess we have to agree to disagree with regards to learning of heuristics. By the way, I do know about what was taught and not taught at TLL as I do not just hands off and expect any enrichment centre to produce results.

Yes... we will just have to agree to disagree. Still, I dun think the effort of debating was entirely wasted on your part (nor mine). MOE does pay attention to this forum, and an open and reasonable discussion such as this is informative.

Unfortunately, this discussion will probably give the affirmation to MOE that kiasuparents.com parents are indeed just kiasu. *sigh*[/quote]Why would our discussion in this subject let MOE think that we are indeed kiasu?

My DS is doing well not just in his academics but other aspects in life (he is noted to be always cheerful by teachers and other adults, he won a good conduct award, ...). I have nothing bad to say about his school/ teachers in terms of academics.

Having benefited from our local education system during my times, I cannot help but notice how things have changed. I have heard arguments about why parents will continue to send their enrichment/ tuition/ .... I have no issues with that ... but what's wrong with providing adequate materials to ALL students so that they too can excel if they are bright and motivated? Of course, unless MOE thinks that their materials are already adequate. If so, why schools use other materials (own or external)? What happens to the majority who do not belong to some schools/ classes?

I am speaking up for the majority. I hope every kid gets an equal chance to excel. What's wrong with providing adequate materials to ALL students?

[Chenonceau]

ksi:

Btw, your son is definitely on the bright side. Even when he was at the bottom of the class in P3, he was in the top 2 classes(still top 80 in school), that actually does not make him bottom. Bottom would be bottom in the cohort.

This is definitely nice to know. I will let him know this so he can feel good later today, especially since he did it without my help and without tuition.

[Chenonceau]

coast:

Why would our discussion in this subject let MOE think that we are indeed kiasu?

My DS is doing well not just in his academics but other aspects in life (he is noted to be always cheerful by teachers and other adults, he won a good conduct award, ...). I have nothing bad to say about his school/ teachers in terms of academics.

Having benefited from our local education system during my times, I cannot help but notice how things have changed. I have heard arguments about why parents will continue to send their enrichment/ tuition/ .... I have no issues with that ... but what's wrong with providing adequate materials to ALL students so that they too can excel if they are bright and motivated? Of course, unless MOE thinks that their materials are already adequate. If so, why schools use other materials (own or external)? What happens to the majority who do not belong to some schools/ classes?

I am speaking up for the majority. I hope every kid gets an equal chance to excel. What's wrong with providing adequate materials to ALL students?

Exactly so...

[awfullyKS]

I think if teachers were equipped to teach well, that will go a long way to help the problem. My sister who was in NIE said that she learnt some general principles of teaching. For specifics, she was exposed to what heuristics were but tts about it. So when she was put into the school and asked to teach P5, she was ill-equipped. She did not know the heuristic methods herself and had to buy assessment books to try to figure it out. For english, she was also at a loss to be able to explain the rules of synthesis for eg. If she did not bother to put in extra research and hard work, she would have been another ineffective teacher.


I am wondering why can’t NIE teach the teachers more specific skills to teach. The teachers themselves are not familiar with heuristics and they know English but they do not know the exact rules to explain for eg why this verb works and this does not work.

In the end, the teachers just give up and that is why we are sending our kids to school to learn nothing much.

[Kodomosuki]

Don’t quote me but this some rumour I heard.

They are more than one way of solving problem Sums.
Why model is taught only in sch ?
MOE has invested millions of dollars on model . Teachers, textbooks and other resources.
What are they going to do with all these investment if other method proves better.
In PSLE , if a child does not use model diagram , but other methods , points are given .
Currently, my children are learning other method than models And they are so excited with this method and Looking forward to the centre every week.

[Chenonceau]

awfullyKS:

I think if teachers were equipped to teach well, that will go a long way to help the problem. My sister who was in NIE said that she learnt some general principles of teaching. For specifics, she was exposed to what heuristics were but tts about it. So when she was put into the school and asked to teach P5, she was ill-equipped. She did not know the heuristic methods herself and had to buy assessment books to try to figure it out. For english, she was also at a loss to be able to explain the rules of synthesis for eg. If she did not bother to put in extra research and hard work, she would have been another ineffective teacher.


I am wondering why can't NIE teach the teachers more specific skills to teach. The teachers themselves are not familiar with heuristics and they know English but they do not know the exact rules to explain for eg why this verb works and this does not work.

In the end, the teachers just give up and that is why we are sending our kids to school to learn nothing much.

I would be happy enough with more comprehensive textbooks that document concepts and heuristics. This way, it takes the pressure off Teachers. It'll guide Teachers in their teaching and it'll offload them the need to WRITE resources. They can focus on teaching and marking. Teachers who are themselves lost can let themselves be guided by the textbooks. This could stem the outflow of Teachers too because it'll be so much less stressful than having to WRITE resources, FIND resources AND teach PLUS mark. Right now, if Teachers don't do what they are supposed to do in class (or dunno how to), NO ONE KNOWS... and the children DON'T HAVE OTHER RECOURSE except Tutors, after they do poorly at an exam.

Put everything children need to know in the textbooks (or a bibliographic list that is easily available from the library or e-library), and children with no access to external help (and stuck with ineffective Teachers) still have a fighting chance.

Then slowly... slowly, MOE can set about resolving the Teacher quality and quantity problem. Get a good base of educational materials flowing THROUGH the system and it'll already go a long way in leveling the playing field AND take the load of Teachers. This should not be difficult to do in this internet age.

Who are we to decide that such and such a class CANNOT COPE or WILL BE CONFUSED by such a such material? What if the child ended up there because in one year, his Mom came down with cancer... his Dad landed in jail? So ending up in the wrong class means that he'll be fed easy stuff way below his ability? At least, if comprehensive written resources are easy to access from anywhere within the system, this child can help himself even if the Teachers think he CANNOT cope with more.

[Nebbermind]

Kodomosuki:

Don't quote me but this some rumour I heard.

They are more than one way of solving problem Sums.
Why model is taught only in sch ?
MOE has invested millions of dollars on model . Teachers, textbooks and other resources.
What are they going to do with all these investment if other method proves better.
In PSLE , if a child does not use model diagram , but other methods , points are given .
Currently, my children are learning other method than models And they are so excited with this method and Looking forward to the centre every week.

I believe they will eventually learn other methods. But knowing the 'model method' allows the kids to solve more complex math (which would in our time require algebra or whatever) when they r in lower pri.

[Nebbermind]

limlim:

Wah.. so many parents the kids only need to focus on understand maths to do maths..


My DD in P1 last year was struggling with maths.. not bcoz she can't count but bcoz she don't understand the English.

When I read the problems/questions, I felt that the language used is too chim for P1 already.

would be nice if u can quote a couple of examples. I thought it's quite manageable.

[coast]

Chenonceau:

I would be happy enough with more comprehensive textbooks that document concepts and heuristics. This way, it takes the pressure off Teachers. It'll guide Teachers in their teaching and it'll offload them the need to WRITE resources. They can focus on teaching and marking. Teachers who are themselves lost can let themselves be guided by the textbooks. This could stem the outflow of Teachers too because it'll be so much less stressful than having to WRITE resources, FIND resources AND teach PLUS mark. Right now, if Teachers don't do what they are supposed to do in class (or dunno how to), NO ONE KNOWS... and the children DON'T HAVE OTHER RECOURSE except Tutors, after they do poorly at an exam.

Put everything children need to know in the textbooks (or a bibliographic list that is easily available from the library or e-library), and children with no access to external help (and stuck with ineffective Teachers) still have a fighting chance.

Then slowly... slowly, MOE can set about resolving the Teacher quality and quantity problem. Get a good base of educational materials flowing THROUGH the system and it'll already go a long way in leveling the playing field AND take the load of Teachers. This should not be difficult to do in this internet age.

Who are we to decide that such and such a class CANNOT COPE or WILL BE CONFUSED by such a such material? What if the child ended up there because in one year, his Mom came down with cancer... his Dad landed in jail? So ending up in the wrong class means that he'll be fed easy stuff way below his ability? At least, if comprehensive written resources are easy to access from anywhere within the system, this child can help himself even if the Teachers think he CANNOT cope with more.

:rahrah:

There are kids with other priorities ... e.g. helping their parents at home, heavy-committment CCAs, ... There are also parents truly believing in a holistic education and not chasing 100 or 90s for every exam ... not wanting their children spending extensive hours on enrichment/ tuition/ worksheets but a balanced childhood. With comprehensive resources, these kids have an equal chance at PSLE.

[Chenonceau]

coast:

:rahrah:

There are kids with other priorities ... e.g. helping their parents at home, heavy-committment CCAs, ... There are also parents truly believing in a holistic education and not chasing 100 or 90s for every exam ... not wanting their children spending extensive hours on enrichment/ tuition/ worksheets but a balanced childhood. With comprehensive resources, these kids have an equal chance at PSLE.

Yes... holistic education. A mainstream education is valuable in how it allows children to build friendships and bridges of understanding with those who aren't labelled gifted. We skipped the GEP test. Partly, I strongly suspected DS wouldn't get in. Partly, even if he could get in, we didn't believe in it because of the skewed opportunities for social interactions... which we believed invaluable to life effectiveness.

Have comprehensive WRITTEN resources available and any kid, no matter labelled gifted or not, can take active part in his/her own learning. Why should only the GEP get exposure to math heuristics only to find that some gifted kids there CAN'T cope with heuristics (as reported by some parents)... and students in mainstream DON'T get heuristics training only to find that non-gifted children like my DS CAN cope.

This helps out the Teachers a great deal too.