Parents, not enrichment centres, are key to result

[coast]

linden2000:

Chenonceau:

I was very puzzled as to why my son failed Paper 2 in early P5 when he had mastered everything the school had taught.

I had the exact same experience with my son last year. He too failed P5 Paper 2 and as a result, the Maths paper overall. I too was puzzled because I had all along thought that he already knew the material from the school Maths texts. After sitting down to look through the paper did I realise that the difficulty of the problem sums tested in the exam are definitely beyond what is in the texts.

That's when I started looking for resources to help my son bridge the gap. We did find onsponge useful in that aspect. To us, heuristics or not, onsponge is useful because it teaches the techniques categorised by topics.

Looking at the Maths school textbook and workbook just sets me thinking if questions/sums of exam paper difficulty levels could not be incorporated into the school texts. If there is a need to differentiate higher difficulty, group them into a section by themselves under each topic if need be. That way children from low income families who are unable to afford assessment books, past year exam papers or tuition can have access to such material. Then they can self-study or seek help if they need to. They can't seek help if they do not even know what to ask.

:goodpost:

Thank you for sharing. Many children (not just those from low income families) will benefit from adequate materials.

\"Then they can self-study or seek help if they need to. They can't seek help if they do not even know what to ask\"

Couldn't agree more

[Chenonceau]

chamonix:

Chenonceau:

I dun think Piggy will flame you lah.... But she'll know better than me about GEP lor... I dunno that he receives any training though... He has to teach himself 3 subjects 'cos I am only good at one - English.

I am not referring to you training him. Rather, I consider giving the child an opportunity to learn on his/her own is itself the highest form of training. Hmm, maybe I am not making sense here... been away from the system for too long

:hi5: You make perfect sense because I thought so too. That's why I insisted on no tutor even though we can well afford the best tutors. He will get whatever score he'll get but without a tutor. Even if he doesn't do well in PSLE, he will take off in secondary school because he knows how to learn by himself.

[Mychildren]

HI Chenonceau,

You've voiced out most of the things that I want to say......Good!!!
I now reading through this topic. Will give my opinion once I finished reading.

[Chenonceau]

coast:

ksi:

Coast, the discussion so far is not an emphasis on asking for more materials to be produced by MOE, we have been discussing the \"untaught\" heuristics as being a critical point to ensure better results and some of us here say \"No\". More importantly, deliver a good job in concept learning so that kids can interpret question well and solve the problems with understanding.

It is good to read about the examples of children without tuition for heuristics can still manage A/A* for PSLE Math.

Hi ksi,

Actually that is my emphasis (Chenonceau pushes for it too ... she has quoted personal examples that her DS's school is not providing adequate resources for Maths and Chinese).

I agree it is very important to learn and master concept.

I also agree children without tuition can still manage A/A* for PSLE Math. But did they get good materials from schools? Did they have a dedicated teacher who teach beyond textbooks? I know of schools using external (OnSponge, A*, ...) for some classes and schools developing their own internal materials. These schools PROVIDE adequate materials.

If you look at the textbooks (not the school's own materials), are they adequate? If they are, why would schools have to develop own materials ... rely on external materials?

We need to give every child an EQUAL chance at PSLE. Not because which school or class he belongs to.

Just calling for an EQUAL chance ... providing adequate materials to ALL students is a good start ... nope?

Someone offered me non-decaf coffee at dinner when I asked for decaf. As a result, I am wide awake and haven't been able to sleep a wink. So, if I may, I would like to try my hand at integrating the discussion.

Better Materials
There seems to be a general consensus that this is desirable because as I look back at the posts, many Mommies do think the textbooks are insufficient. In another thread, I believed ksi also said this... ksi, do correct me if I am wrong.

To Teach Heuristics or Not
(1) People seem to agree that until there has been adequate concept mastery, it is better to stay away from heuristics.
(2) I have learnt from ksi, sun and wonderm that heuristics may be confusing for the weaker students.
(3) I believe (again pls correct if wrong) ksi has come to the realization that some heuristics UNtaught in P5 can mean the difference between pass and fail.
(4) Many Mommies have vouched for Onsponge as a good (if not necessary) resource for math heuristic.
(5) I have also learnt from Sun that modelling alone is sufficient for PSLE but other methods may be faster (so I'm still gonna expose my DS and then see how, since he does have a good Math foundation)

GEP Vs Mainstream
The discussion is not full enough so I find it hard to integrate.


So I suppose, all round, we have enriched each other's perspectives by sharing the little worlds we are all prisoner of.

[coast]

Sun_2010:

Ksi, Chen,


While I agree with Ksi in principal, I do think that better materials helps. DD managed to ace her maths with out any tution or enrichment. But the school provided some good materal. She managed to be amoung the top even though she was amongst the few who did not attend TLL for maths and the teacher along with the good books were critial factors.

That said , too heavy content will be overwhelming to kids who have not grasped the concepts well. Providing the material could do more harm. So personally I feel that while All schools should have the access good material , the discreetion should be with the teachers to decide to hand out the material. This of course will lead to its own set of problems with demanding parents.

Like I said , I can't think on behalf of a wide demographic of children, but this is just my experience.

:goodpost:

I fully agree with you that \"the teacher along with the good books were critial factors\".

What you wrote in bold above is a valid point. For many of these children, I would think that it's more harmful to be given tonnes of assessment books, top schools' past years papers, tuition assignments, ... etc. If MOE provides adequate materials to ALL students, at least, the quality & quantity is well-controlled.

Providing adequate materials help the teachers too ... teachers face heavy workloads and besides having to handle big class sizes, they might not have strong competencies in the subjects they teach.

[coast]

Chenonceau:

Sun_2010:

Ksi, Chen,


It has been stimulating reading this thread. While I tend to disagree with some points, they have made me think and analyse my stand - and i realise at times my opinion is just my perspective , based on my love for maths and coloured by my experience of PSLE in 2010.

I think people disagree because we all have different life experiences, and we all have different core beliefs. The Mommies who dun think heuristics are helpful are those who are strong in Math... Ksi, Wonderm, Piggy, yourself. I am not strong in Math so I couldn't help him except by giving him these. Once I gave him the different methods, he just took off. That was my experience you see.

Next, some of us differ in whether we believe in innate talent. Many believe that talent and aptitude define everything. I don't. I think the part played by nurture is far greater. This means that I won't accept the explanation - no aptitude or not smart enough. I'll say, you practice till the aptitude comes. DD found a job as a waitress. Was scolded everyday for a month. I wouldn't let her give up. Even if it is waitressing an you suck at it, if you stick with it long enough, you'll get good.

Core beliefs are also defined by personal experience. When I was little, I was known to be not bright. Till today, I think I am not bright. But I worked very hard and didn't do too badly. So I tell my son that since he is my son, he is not bright, but we can make up for it with practice and exposure.

I think it is normal to disagree. The world is rich in its diversity and the only way to fully enjoy it is to grasp the realities of other people by first disagreeing and then integrating.

I was wondering why you kept saying your son is not bright ... now I know ...

I agree with ksi that you son will do well in PSLE

[coast]

Chenonceau:

coast:

[quote=\"ksi\"]
Coast, the discussion so far is not an emphasis on asking for more materials to be produced by MOE, we have been discussing the \"untaught\" heuristics as being a critical point to ensure better results and some of us here say \"No\". More importantly, deliver a good job in concept learning so that kids can interpret question well and solve the problems with understanding.

It is good to read about the examples of children without tuition for heuristics can still manage A/A* for PSLE Math.

Hi ksi,

Actually that is my emphasis (Chenonceau pushes for it too ... she has quoted personal examples that her DS's school is not providing adequate resources for Maths and Chinese).

I agree it is very important to learn and master concept.

I also agree children without tuition can still manage A/A* for PSLE Math. But did they get good materials from schools? Did they have a dedicated teacher who teach beyond textbooks? I know of schools using external (OnSponge, A*, ...) for some classes and schools developing their own internal materials. These schools PROVIDE adequate materials.

If you look at the textbooks (not the school's own materials), are they adequate? If they are, why would schools have to develop own materials ... rely on external materials?

We need to give every child an EQUAL chance at PSLE. Not because which school or class he belongs to.

Just calling for an EQUAL chance ... providing adequate materials to ALL students is a good start ... nope?

Better Materials
There seems to be a general consensus that this is desirable because as I look back at the posts, many Mommies do think the textbooks are insufficient. In another thread, I believed ksi also said this... ksi, do correct me if I am wrong.

So I suppose, all round, we have enriched each other's perspectives by sharing the little worlds we are all prisoner of.[/quote]Oh ... I might have misread then. I thought ksi disagrees with better materials from MOE and I wanted to know her reasons as it could be something that I have not thought of. In another thread, ksi and my views are alike in some fundamental parenting approach.

Even if it's disagreement, I feel it is desirable too. All of us have different experiences, I realised that even in the same class, parents of different kids could have conflicting views too.

What is important is through more sharing, hopefully we will learn more from each other and perhaps be in a better position to provide constructive feedback to MOE.

[coast]

Chenonceau:

chamonix:

[quote=\"Chenonceau\"]

I dun think Piggy will flame you lah.... But she'll know better than me about GEP lor... I dunno that he receives any training though... He has to teach himself 3 subjects 'cos I am only good at one - English.

I am not referring to you training him. Rather, I consider giving the child an opportunity to learn on his/her own is itself the highest form of training. Hmm, maybe I am not making sense here... been away from the system for too long

:hi5: You make perfect sense because I thought so too. That's why I insisted on no tutor even though we can well afford the best tutors. He will get whatever score he'll get but without a tutor. Even if he doesn't do well in PSLE, he will take off in secondary school because he knows how to learn by himself.[/quote]Yes, I agree too. Some parents spent so much efforts helping their kids (even upper primary) on show and tell and what their kids do? ... memorise what daddies/ mummies prepared. I asked my P1 DS to write his own scripts last year... he didn't have to memorise as it's his own words (I helped to correct the sentence structure). In the process, I know how much he has learnt and could do on his own!

A point to add though ... it doesn't mean a child cannot be an independent learner just because he goes for enrichment/ tuition.

[Chenonceau]

coast:

A point to add though ... it doesn't mean a child cannot be an independent learner just because he goes for enrichment/ tuition.

Yeah lor...

(1) if textbooks dun document
(2) school doesn't give out resources
(3) Teacher doesn't answer questions

... the child has to find the material SOMEWHERE. Many find these in enrichment centres and then it's just a matter of working hard. Me... I rely on friends, KSP and materials from USA. My son learns well through reading. He doesn't capture learning well through the ears. His learning needs to go through his eyes. Written resources are invaluable for such children simply because they don't learn well when Tutors or Enrichment Tutors or Teachers talk.

[Chenonceau]

ksi:

It is great to see so much character in your son and even greater to see the support you are rendering to him. In fact, this will supercede whatever he can get from school. I actually believe the family plays a much much more important role in a child's success than the school.

I agree with this too but more specifically, I think the school should provide all necessary content whilst I provide moral and emotional support. In all of P5 however, I have done BOTH provide content AND emotional support. DS is close to homeschooled.

Before P5, I had never heard of KSP. There was no need because school resources were sufficient. Besides, DS' P3 and P4 Teacher was easily one of the two best teachers we had ever experienced in the academic journeys of our children.

We had one Math assessment book. One set of Top School papers. No English nor Science assessments. Tons of ineffective Chinese assessment books. We loved Patricia Chan-Dendroff's full set of Science guidebooks (Upper and Lower Block) because they were full of fascinating but irrelevant nuggets interwoven amongst the stuff DS needed to know. The books were funny and engaging. DS enjoyed the books and he learnt to identify stuff he was curious about and then he googled the rest. You can't find the 2 sets anymore I think.

I learnt a great deal from KSP and I found people here in the same predicament as I... and in the ways I know how, I try to give back.