Parents, not enrichment centres, are key to result
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Chenonceau:
:imsorry: Papas too... yes, Papas too... :imsorry:[/quote]Statistics show that boys are better at Maths/ Science while girls better at languages? If I am not wrong, PSLE stats do indicate that?
What happened to Fathers..... :pokeeye:limlim:
[quote=\"Chenonceau\"]
Even if you don't agree with me, and I am perfectly willing to accept that since you're really good at Math, you see other ways that bypass the need for such resources. It's perfectly fine. But I am NOT good at Math. My DS was much helped by these heuristics, and I assumed that other kids, without Mothers good at Math would also benefit. -
Nebbermind:
Parents who needed tuition/enrichment classes for their kids are likely to be those who couldn't afford to do so, due to work or other chores..some observation.
1) despite having several pages for this thread, the discussion is mainly among the same few parents
2) these parents appeared to be able to teach or help their children, especically in math
3) most of their children also appeared to be 'above average', some in among the top in school or already done their psle and in top 5/10 sec school.
Where are the parents who really needed tuition or enrichment classes for their kids?
Where would they find time to surf KSP? :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: -
Chenonceau:
:scratchhead: my ds2 is the type who cannot sit still for long and sometimes mind can wonder off....when i am trying to teach him! he learns better with an enrichment/sch teacher because he behaves in front of them and thrives under peer pressure. (and he thinks his teachers and he is smarter than his mum
My son was like this when he was little too. I couldn't decide whether it was cute or frustrating because it was both. :rotflmao:Mychildren:
For my younger DS, he is the type that cannot sit still for long and sometimes, the mind can wander off. So attending enrichment centres would waste my $$ and not be effective. Therefore, that is why I need to come in as his 1:1 tutor.
)
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Some people have PM-ed me their thanks for the heads-up on heuristics. Most are parents with kids in P3 and P4. Some in P1 & P2. I am mindful of the wisdom that ksi has consistently counselled since the start of the debate - We should not have a mass stampede towards centres that TEACH heuristics... nor buy books that tout themselves as heuristic.
This post is a cautionary one to parents who are tempted to quickly jump on the heuristic bandwagon without really knowing what an heuristic is, and are tempted to do so because Chenonceau convinced them that heuristics are good.
Since I am a psychologist, the term heuristic has never been a marketing term to me. I first got to know about heuristics when reading research by Tversky and Kahneman (both are highly influential cognitive psychologists most active in research in the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s). This could explain why I was far less sensitive to the notion that the term \"heuristics\" is very much marketing hype, used by people who are trying to make money by touting a big word. Not until ksi made the comment about business-driven \"heuristics\" was I even aware of the profiteering aspect of this term in Singapore.
But now I know better, and so I feel compelled to write this post.
What is an heuristic?
In psychology, heuristics are simple, efficient rules, hard-coded by evolutionary processes or learned, which have been proposed to explain how people make decisions, come to judgments, and solve problems, typically when facing complex problems or incomplete information. These rules work well under most circumstances, but in certain cases lead to systematic errors or cognitive biases. (Direct quote from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heuristic)
Note the emphasis on the terms \"systematic errors\" and \"cognitive biases\". Read the following URL for an example of how one can make error using a heuristic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Availability_heuristic.
Parents need to be aware that heuristics are short-cuts to problem-solving. A short-cut saves time but exposes you to the danger of mis-reading a problem and once you have mis-read the problem, the solution will be wrong. It is for this reason that people like ksi and wonderm caution against the possibility that teaching heuristics can lock the child in to fixed methods of problem-solving.This again is wise advice from Mommies who are themselves good at Math, and we should heed their advice.
The only way to guard against cognitive biasness is to have high volume exposure to different problem statements... i.e., a lot of practice, using multiple methods. Teaching heuristics means you need MORE practice NOT less, because you need to practise enough to get past the \"dumb application\" of heuristic to problem. You need to HAVE HAD more practice... and you need MORE FURTHER practice after you've been taught.
You need enough practice to develop a sensitivity to the different types of problems, so that you will know when NOT to use such and such a math heuristic. Of the top school papers, Math is the only subject where we actually do ALL the papers. Last year, DS completed 3 years worth of 12 top school papers. We left out many Paper 1 but we made sure we did ALL the Paper 2.
Are math heuristics good for children with a poor foundation in Math?
I am not sure but I am tempted to say \"No\". Children with poor foundation in Math are likely to be more prone to cognitive bias than another with a good feel for numbers and numerical concepts. This COULD explain why some children with POOR math foundation go into Onsponge training and Math Heuristic training in lower primary only to have their math grades drop further as the years go by. A Mommy shared with me the experience of her son who was not helped at all by heuristic.
If you try to feed lobster/eggs/nuts to a baby, the baby might get allergy. Typically, Mommies introduce such foods after age 3 or 4. There is a time for everything. So, parents need to know that just because something (such as math heuristics) has been beneficial to others for PSLE, it may not be wise to start too early. When you build a house, you must build the foundations first. The foundations of the math cognitive scaffolding is very well documented in ksi's post here - http://www.kiasuparents.com/kiasu/forum/viewtopic.php?p=691122#p691122. These are the heuristics you want your child to master in lower primary... and master well. To complete this list, I would advise to develop naturally a set of math heuristics through a LOT OF practice in numerical calculation. Addition, subtraction, multiplication, division. The schools give hardly enough practice here. I used to print out sheets of such numerical calculations and get my son to do one worksheet a day in P4. In addition, I signed him up to Kumon classes which we have since stopped in P5.
Note that my son was a 90+ math student at end-P4. He failed Paper 2 in early P5, and after skimming Onsponge 5, his grades went back up to 90s very fast. The other little boy I know who obtained such results was a GEP student who was also pretty good at Math. Both boys were not bad at Math to begin with. I am tempted thus to conclude that heuristics training is dangerous for those who have a poor Math foundation. But I am not terribly terribly sure as yet. Again, I must give ksi the credit for highlighting this point most spiritedly, and I am most sorry that in the cut and thrust of the debate, I was not sensitive, and I rode rough shod over her wisdom.
Parents need to be careful.
(1) Early exposure is not better.
(2) The word \"heuristic\" on the front page of an assessment book does not mean it is a good book.
(3) The word \"heuristic\" on the billboard of a tuition centre is no guarantee of better grades.
Will enrichment centres teaching heuristics be always useful in helping your child improve?
The answer here is an obvious \"no\". Apart from the dangers of cognitive bias, there are also issues of motivation. Practice makes perfect. An unmotivated child won't practise. My DS is very motivated. We had a discussion this morning about working on Sunday. He wants to, saying \"I can get more done\". I don't want him to. In the end, I had to tell him \"I'm sorry. You are not working on Sunday. Sunday is play day. I'm not discussing this further.\"
I think I owe it to the community to eat a bit of humble pie (because much of this post expands on what ksi has been saying all along) and sound a word of caution. So here it is. -
[quote=\"Chenonceau\"]Are math heuristics good for children with a poor foundation in Math?
I am not sure but I am tempted to say \"No\". Children with poor foundation in Math are likely to be more prone to cognitive bias than another with a good feel for numbers and numerical concepts. This COULD explain why some children with POOR math foundation go into Onsponge training and Math Heuristic training in lower primary only to have their math grades drop further as the years go by. A Mommy shared with me the experience of her son who was not helped at all by heuristic.
If you try to feed lobster/eggs/nuts to a baby, the baby might get allergy. Typically, Mommies introduce such foods after age 3 or 4. There is a time for everything. So, parents need to know that just because something (such as math heuristics) has been beneficial to others for PSLE, it may not be wise to start too early. When you build a house, you must build the foundations first. The foundations of the math cognitive scaffolding is very well documented in ksi's post here - http://www.kiasuparents.com/kiasu/forum/viewtopic.php?p=691122#p691122. These are the heuristics you want your child to master in lower primary... and master well. To complete this list, I would advise to develop naturally a set of math heuristics through a LOT OF practice in numerical calculation. Addition, subtraction, multiplication, division. The schools give hardly enough practice here. I used to print out sheets of such numerical calculations and get my son to do one worksheet a day in P4. In addition, I signed him up to Kumon classes which we have since stopped in P5. [quote=\"Chenonceau\"]
Hi I have been following this discussion not for my own kids but becos I teach a group of P4-P6 students in Sunday school and they are all underachievers who are at the borderline of Normal and Express. Maths is the perennial Archilles heel. Together with some people in church, we were wondering how to help them to at least make it to Express. And because they typically do not have parents who can coach and we assume the school is not doing a good enough job, we were hoping to fill in the gap. I have been thinking if the so called heuristics which appears to be not taught or taught adequately could help them.
However, I realise that in all likelihood their problem is one of lack of basic foundation which needs to be addressed first. Therefore, I can understand why the school or the educational system may not implement heuristics teaching to ALL students from the outset - those students stuggling at the bottom of cohort such as these Sunday school kids I know will not absorb and likely feel even more inferior and less motivated to improve.
Instead, these kids need to focus and master the basic skills before we talk about any higher order skills.
The discussion in this thread seem to be amongst parents whose kids are already rather bright and just needed to be given the right sort of materials/training to make it to A/A*. Unfortunately, there are many kids I know who do not fall into that category. -
Musings:
Yes indeed to your point in RED. It is wonderful you took the time to write. A perspective like yours is invaluable. We have been waiting for someone like you to come and write.
Hi I have been following this discussion not for my own kids but becos I teach a group of P4-P6 students in Sunday school and they are all underachievers who are at the borderline of Normal and Express. Maths is the perennial Archilles heel. Together with some people in church, we were wondering how to help them to at least make it to Express. And because they typically do not have parents who can coach and we assume the school is not doing a good enough job, we were hoping to fill in the gap. I have been thinking if the so called heuristics which appears to be not taught or taught adequately could help them.
However, I realise that in all likelihood their problem is one of lack of basic foundation which needs to be addressed first. Therefore, I can understand why the school or the educational system may not implement heuristics teaching to ALL students from the outset - those students stuggling at the bottom of cohort such as these Sunday school kids I know will not absorb and likely feel even more inferior and less motivated to improve.
Instead, these kids need to focus and master the basic skills before we talk about any higher order skills.
The discussion in this thread seem to be amongst parents whose kids are already rather bright and just needed to be given the right sort of materials/training to make it to A/A*. Unfortunately, there are many kids I know who do not fall into that category.
However, schools are also responsible for teaching those who CAN cope if they choose to TEST such skills. They TEST what they do not teach. You do need these heuristics (or equivalent that you naturally develop yourself with even more practice) to pass Paper 2 in P5. Even GOOD students need
(1) parents who CAN teach
(2) access to enrichment
The good students shouldn't even need external help to pass. This leaves only tuition for those who really need it. -
Chenonceau,
But you have made me more curious on the sponge book. I went to their website and take a look. Flipped over the book, found that only a thin book but it’s ex. So wondering if I can solve higher primary math using my own method, do we still need the on sponge. As there are many parents here mentioning this is a good book. So it is worthwhile to buy it??? -
Mychildren:
At least one parent has children who did well in Math without Onsponge. That is my other bug bear. These books are EXPENSIVE. But this parent (who did not use Onsponge)Chenonceau,
But you have made me more curious on the sponge book. I went to their website and take a look. Flipped over the book, found that only a thin book but it's ex. So wondering if I can solve higher primary math using my own method, do we still need the on sponge. As there are many parents here mentioning this is a good book. So it is worthwhile to buy it???
(1) sent her kids to The Learning Lab (which is even more expensive than buying the Onsponge book).
(2) is herself good at Math
Have you SEEN how expensive the Math Heuristics book is? It's $40/=!!!!
That is daylight robbery.
Just because there are children with poor Math foundation is no excuse for not documenting skills that tested in exams, in textbooks. There are children from poorer homes who have a strong math foundation but no money to buy a $40 assessment book.
Sun_2010 helped her kids through PSLE quite well with
(1) a very helpful teacher
(2) sufficient resources from school
(3) she is herself good at Math
BUT, if you dun have a helpful Teacher, sufficient handouts from school AND a family member good at Math, then I am afraid you'll have to buy the book (provided your child has already a good math foundation). -
In a new study, young children and their adult caregivers uttered fewer vocalizations, used fewer words and engaged in fewer conversations when in the presence of audible television… It is best for you to talk to your kids and spend quality time with them…
This will help in the development of their speech and understanding -
Funz:
Too busy working to earn the money for the tuition and enrichment classes and thereafter, even more busy ferrying kids here and there and following up with extra work from these classes aside from school work.
Yeah hor... where ah?Chenonceau:
[quote=\"Nebbermind\"]some observation.
1) despite having several pages for this thread, the discussion is mainly among the same few parents
2) these parents appeared to be able to teach or help their children, especically in math
3) most of their children also appeared to be 'above average', some in among the top in school or already done their psle and in top 5/10 sec school.
Where are the parents who really needed tuition or enrichment classes for their kids?
Where to find time to come in here????[/quote]Agree agree! But some of us stilll drop by to keep abreast of latest chit chat. Most days, I go away with something to mull over. Other days, more stressed. :evil: And to craft a message takes time hor.
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