Ministerial Salary Review

[3Boys]

If there is one thing I take away from this series of exchanges, is that WP is scary good…at politicking. Much better than the PAP.


I think its a bit rich (pun intended) for CSM, who is personally wealthy, and doing this as a hobby almost (he can always retire back to Taiwan if he tires of this game), to call upon the younger ministers, many of whom have been salaried folk most of their lives, to give up big chunks of their pay.

[limlim]

3Boys:

If there is one thing I take away from this series of exchanges, is that WP is scary good.....at politicking. Much better than the PAP.


I think its a bit rich (pun intended) for CSM, who is personally wealthy, and doing this as a hobby almost (he can always retire back to Taiwan if he tires of this game), to call upon the younger ministers, many of whom have been salaried folk most of their lives, to give up big chunks of their pay.

The reason given by the MIW for the high pay, is to be competitive, to attract talents from the private sectors to join politics. These pple have the talent and the experience, which means, they are probably already very rich to begin with. Hence, they will be of similar standing to CSM, isn't it?

As for the young pple, what talents do they have other than good academic results? Do they have real experience running big companies? If not, then, what justifies their high pay?? And, if they are not from the private sector, but instead groomed within public service, where is the justification for competitive salaries? Would they have earned so much had they joined the private sector? It is anyone's guess. They are not \"tried and proven\", so to say.

[concern2]

3boys back from Parliament har? :evil: :siam:

[3Boys]

concern2:

3boys back from Parliament har? :evil: :siam:

I so little tact, sure kenna :spank:

[3Boys]

limlim:

3Boys:

If there is one thing I take away from this series of exchanges, is that WP is scary good.....at politicking. Much better than the PAP.


I think its a bit rich (pun intended) for CSM, who is personally wealthy, and doing this as a hobby almost (he can always retire back to Taiwan if he tires of this game), to call upon the younger ministers, many of whom have been salaried folk most of their lives, to give up big chunks of their pay.

The reason given by the MIW for the high pay, is to be competitive, to attract talents from the private sectors to join politics. These pple have the talent and the experience, which means, they are probably already very rich to begin with. Hence, they will be of similar standing to CSM, isn't it?

As for the young pple, what talents do they have other than good academic results? Do they have real experience running big companies? If not, then, what justifies their high pay?? And, if they are not from the private sector, but instead groomed within public service, where is the justification for competitive salaries? Would they have earned so much had they joined the private sector? It is anyone's guess. They are not \"tried and proven\", so to say.

So, assuming that, how many CSM's are there? How many top corporate bankers in Singapore have quit their jobs to join the PAP?

So lets say Warren Buffett runs for US Presidency. He says, as a grand gesture, \"I cut the President's salary to $1.\"

Woot....clap....cheer....

How many people believe he will suffer for a $1 salary. In this instance, would he have helped the institution of the Presidency or would he have harmed it?

I am not willing to take a risk, the future is at stake, I'd rather overpay than underpay.

If you noticed, WP politicked excellently on, what I would call, the politics of envy. I.e. \"Wah lau, that BG, can do the job or not? Strike lottery man!\"

Take a look at the bigger picture, look beyond Singapore. Lets say Bill Clinton. Wanna check his balance sheet? How many people want to bet he earned much more AFTER his Presidency than DURING it? Why reward a person for what he does AFTER the job than DURING it. Where is the correlation between performance and pay, since that seems to be the hot topic?

Singapore too small? How many of you feel that a B737 pilot should be paid 1/4th the salary of an A380 pilot? Only 1/4 the passengers load mah...? Governing a small country is different but not necessarily less complex than governing a large one. One does not scale pay that way.

[Funz]

3Boys:

If there is one thing I take away from this series of exchanges, is that WP is scary good.....at politicking. Much better than the PAP.


I think its a bit rich (pun intended) for CSM, who is personally wealthy, and doing this as a hobby almost (he can always retire back to Taiwan if he tires of this game), to call upon the younger ministers, many of whom have been salaried folk most of their lives, to give up big chunks of their pay.

Oh my. Deja vu.

For a moment I thought my daddy joined KSP .... :shock:

[Strparent]

There is no right or wrong, and always 2 sides to a coin, so any comparison or rebuttal will lead to an unending loop..... but I still want to share my humble views as well :evil: :evil:

3Boys:

So, how many CSM's are there? How many top corporate bankers in Singapore have quit their jobs to join the PAP?

yes, agreed...very few.....Very few specialist surgeons, very few army/airforce/navy officers who are so magnanimous, selfless and willing to step forward too :evil:

That is PRECISELY why CSM is so unique and deserving of admiration by the common people.

3Boys:

So lets say Warren Buffett runs for US Presidency. He says, as a grand gesture, \"I cut the President's salary to $1.\"

How many people believe he will suffer for a $1 salary. In this instance, would he have helped the institution of the Presidency or would he have harmed it?

True, he and his family would not suffer a drastic change in the standard of living even though he experienced such a drastic drop in his income. :imanangel:

imo, it would be a sign that he is willing to return something to society in acknowledging he had a blessed life. It is called paying back, and a sign of a good person. He and Bill Gates has already committed to charity anyway.

3Boys:

I am not willing to take a risk, the future is at stake, I'd rather overpay than underpay.

You should run your own company, and start hiring people. I am sure you will get lots of interested parties who hoped to be overpaid.

3Boys:

Take a look at the bigger picture, look beyond Singapore. Lets say Bill Clinton. Wanna check his balance sheet? How many people want to bet he earned much more AFTER his Presidency than DURING it? Why reward a person for what he does AFTER the job than DURING it. Where is the correlation between performance and pay, since that seems to be the hot topic?

I think this is called opportunity ? They still have to do work to earn those income as well, so it's a matter of how much people willing to pay them. People talk about ex-Presidents writing books, didn't some of our ex leaders also do the same ?

3Boys:

Singapore too small? How many of you feel that a B737 pilot should be paid 1/4th the salary of an A380 pilot? Only 1/4 the passengers load mah...? Governing a small country is different but not necessarily less complex than governing a large one. One does not scale pay that way.

Agreed again. But then, one also does not talk about paying $1 for each citizen as well. Can you imagine how much the other countries leaders are supposedly able to earn as well ? It may not be more complex nor less complex, BUT it is a fact, that we do pay the highest.

I am not against the Ministerial Salary Committee's review at all. It is good to finally have an independent committee at long last. The grievance is not actually how much one is paid, it is more WHO determines how much they are paid.

If you can decide how much you should make, and if you know what kind of 'built-up' capital the company has, due to your past years' efforts, what would you decide ? Likewise, similar to CSM or Buffet, you will be hard pressed to find another passionate CEO like Steve Jobs who pays himself $1 a year, while his COO earns millions or billions.

[3Boys]

Strparent:

The grievance is not actually how much one is paid, it is more WHO determines how much they are paid.

Actually there is plenty of grievance about HOW MUCH one is paid.

As to overpaying, the question is one of affordability, and risk. Someone tell me with a straight face that we cannot as a country (3.5 mn citizens, US$222.7 billion GDP), pay our entire cabinet of about 15 people, a TOTAL amount that is only slightly higher than what Goldman Sachs (23,000 employees, revenue 2010, US$40 billion), paid to ONE person, Lloyd Blankfein, their CEO.

If Goldman closes shop, the investment bankers will find some other job, or take a vacation for a year in the Bahamas. If Singapore fails, where are you headed? The wealthy, well heeled and well connected will just decamp. What about the ordinary Joe stuck here? The man in the street has far more at stake in the success of their nation than the wealthy do.

Where's the perspective?

[limlim]

3Boys:

So, assuming that, how many CSM's are there? How many top corporate bankers in Singapore have quit their jobs to join the PAP?

So, using MIW's argument, they need high salary to attract talent, then, the so-called \"talents\" that is attracted by the high salary all share a common trait.. Greed.

And I feel that a person with greed as a main trait is not worthy of the electorate's mandate.

I rather do with less of the right person than excess of the WRONG person.

3Boys:

So lets say Warren Buffett runs for US Presidency. He says, as a grand gesture, \"I cut the President's salary to $1.\"

Woot....clap....cheer....

How many people believe he will suffer for a $1 salary. In this instance, would he have helped the institution of the Presidency or would he have harmed it?

Since when did anyone suggest that ministers work for $1, or for that matter, free. Your argument is out of line.

Many of us agree that ministers should be adequately paid.. BUT, NOT excessively or paid obscene salaries.

Take $11k/mth (or $55k/mth). That, is sufficient to give a standard of living that MANY MANY, I dare say, more than 60.1% of Singaporeans, can only dream of.

So, in that sense, I would say, that the minister is adequately paid.. and not given obscene multi-million salaries. However, if the minister have proven himself to be extraordinary, one that bought happiness, prosperity, and progress to majority of Singaporeans. Then, I would agree a hefty reward is in due. that said, at this moment, I had not seen any current ministers who seems to have done that.

To pick a practical example.. perhaps.. OTC and GKS should be entitled to an extra-ordinary salary. the MRT is (was) a great gift to Singapore, I feel.

3Boys:

I am not willing to take a risk, the future is at stake, I'd rather overpay than underpay.

I would NOT want to take a risk of attracting the wrong person. Someone with \"talent\" but wrong personality. I do not ever want an MP or ministers who may utter words like \"Get out of my elite uncaring face\".

If Monetary rewards is a major consideration, then, how can we reasonably expect empathy from such a person? He cares more about himself or the people?

If they draw such obscene extraordinary high salaries that put them high up in their ivory towers, how can we expect them to understand the difficulties faced by average Singaporeans. In a recent example, one minister still though that average hawker centre carrot cake costs $1.50.... not sure which era he is in..

Many have already lose touch..

3Boys:

If you noticed, WP politicked excellently on, what I would call, the politics of envy. I.e. \"Wah lau, that BG, can do the job or not? Strike lottery man!\"

Take a look at the bigger picture, look beyond Singapore. Lets say Bill Clinton. Wanna check his balance sheet? How many people want to bet he earned much more AFTER his Presidency than DURING it? Why reward a person for what he does AFTER the job than DURING it. Where is the correlation between performance and pay, since that seems to be the hot topic?

Singapore too small? How many of you feel that a B737 pilot should be paid 1/4th the salary of an A380 pilot? Only 1/4 the passengers load mah...? Governing a small country is different but not necessarily less complex than governing a large one. One does not scale pay that way.

I guess you're a bit confused or lose track of the facts.. Right now, the situation is such that the B737 pilot is paid many times MORE than the A380. There is no justification at all. If they are paid the same or similar, it is reasonable. But a smaller plane pilot paid more than a larger plane pilot...... that's ridiculous..

In the same light, there is no justification to pay a SG minister MUCH more than that of the US.

As for the before/after statement, I feel that is totally irrelevant. I'm not sure if anyone here even suggests that ministers be paid after they left office.

[limlim]

3Boys:

Where's the perspective?

The perspective is extra-ordinary high pay does not imply extra-ordinary talent. (that is separate issue from the right \"character\" )

Hence, why pay so much unless they can show they deserve it.