Ministerial Salary Review

[3Boys]

Strparent:

The grievance is not actually how much one is paid, it is more WHO determines how much they are paid.

Actually there is plenty of grievance about HOW MUCH one is paid.

As to overpaying, the question is one of affordability, and risk. Someone tell me with a straight face that we cannot as a country (3.5 mn citizens, US$222.7 billion GDP), pay our entire cabinet of about 15 people, a TOTAL amount that is only slightly higher than what Goldman Sachs (23,000 employees, revenue 2010, US$40 billion), paid to ONE person, Lloyd Blankfein, their CEO.

If Goldman closes shop, the investment bankers will find some other job, or take a vacation for a year in the Bahamas. If Singapore fails, where are you headed? The wealthy, well heeled and well connected will just decamp. What about the ordinary Joe stuck here? The man in the street has far more at stake in the success of their nation than the wealthy do.

Where's the perspective?

[limlim]

3Boys:

So, assuming that, how many CSM's are there? How many top corporate bankers in Singapore have quit their jobs to join the PAP?

So, using MIW's argument, they need high salary to attract talent, then, the so-called \"talents\" that is attracted by the high salary all share a common trait.. Greed.

And I feel that a person with greed as a main trait is not worthy of the electorate's mandate.

I rather do with less of the right person than excess of the WRONG person.

3Boys:

So lets say Warren Buffett runs for US Presidency. He says, as a grand gesture, \"I cut the President's salary to $1.\"

Woot....clap....cheer....

How many people believe he will suffer for a $1 salary. In this instance, would he have helped the institution of the Presidency or would he have harmed it?

Since when did anyone suggest that ministers work for $1, or for that matter, free. Your argument is out of line.

Many of us agree that ministers should be adequately paid.. BUT, NOT excessively or paid obscene salaries.

Take $11k/mth (or $55k/mth). That, is sufficient to give a standard of living that MANY MANY, I dare say, more than 60.1% of Singaporeans, can only dream of.

So, in that sense, I would say, that the minister is adequately paid.. and not given obscene multi-million salaries. However, if the minister have proven himself to be extraordinary, one that bought happiness, prosperity, and progress to majority of Singaporeans. Then, I would agree a hefty reward is in due. that said, at this moment, I had not seen any current ministers who seems to have done that.

To pick a practical example.. perhaps.. OTC and GKS should be entitled to an extra-ordinary salary. the MRT is (was) a great gift to Singapore, I feel.

3Boys:

I am not willing to take a risk, the future is at stake, I'd rather overpay than underpay.

I would NOT want to take a risk of attracting the wrong person. Someone with \"talent\" but wrong personality. I do not ever want an MP or ministers who may utter words like \"Get out of my elite uncaring face\".

If Monetary rewards is a major consideration, then, how can we reasonably expect empathy from such a person? He cares more about himself or the people?

If they draw such obscene extraordinary high salaries that put them high up in their ivory towers, how can we expect them to understand the difficulties faced by average Singaporeans. In a recent example, one minister still though that average hawker centre carrot cake costs $1.50.... not sure which era he is in..

Many have already lose touch..

3Boys:

If you noticed, WP politicked excellently on, what I would call, the politics of envy. I.e. \"Wah lau, that BG, can do the job or not? Strike lottery man!\"

Take a look at the bigger picture, look beyond Singapore. Lets say Bill Clinton. Wanna check his balance sheet? How many people want to bet he earned much more AFTER his Presidency than DURING it? Why reward a person for what he does AFTER the job than DURING it. Where is the correlation between performance and pay, since that seems to be the hot topic?

Singapore too small? How many of you feel that a B737 pilot should be paid 1/4th the salary of an A380 pilot? Only 1/4 the passengers load mah...? Governing a small country is different but not necessarily less complex than governing a large one. One does not scale pay that way.

I guess you're a bit confused or lose track of the facts.. Right now, the situation is such that the B737 pilot is paid many times MORE than the A380. There is no justification at all. If they are paid the same or similar, it is reasonable. But a smaller plane pilot paid more than a larger plane pilot...... that's ridiculous..

In the same light, there is no justification to pay a SG minister MUCH more than that of the US.

As for the before/after statement, I feel that is totally irrelevant. I'm not sure if anyone here even suggests that ministers be paid after they left office.

[limlim]

3Boys:

Where's the perspective?

The perspective is extra-ordinary high pay does not imply extra-ordinary talent. (that is separate issue from the right \"character\" )

Hence, why pay so much unless they can show they deserve it.

[3Boys]

limlim:

Hence, why pay so much unless they can show they deserve it.

And who should decide if and how much they deserve? You put a figure of 11k/mth. So, do we adopt limlim's criteria? What if the salary committee disagrees, will you buy that?

[3Boys]

I’ve not had this much fun in a long time. Now that there is actually a reasonable opposition in parliament, I can actually be the naysayer and heckler from the stands, as opposed to constantly defending the actions of my favoured party.


This role-reversal is actually quite refreshing, much easier to be a critic than the opposite.

[3Boys]

limlim:

The perspective is extra-ordinary high pay does not imply extra-ordinary talent. (that is separate issue from the right \"character\" )

And likewise, low pay does not imply commitment to a cause.

[limlim]

3Boys:

limlim:

Hence, why pay so much unless they can show they deserve it.

And who should decide if and how much they deserve? You put a figure of 11k/mth. So, do we adopt limlim's criteria? What if the salary committee disagrees, will you buy that?

benchmark to other countries then.

You still don't get it, do you?

WHY are they paid so much more than the other countries then the workload doesn't seems to justify it compared to other countries?

I'm not asking anyone to accept the figure I posted. It is meant to be an example only.

The critical point is the PRINCIPLE on how the figure is arrive at.

It can either be benchmark to other countries, Or, benchmark to the median of the majority of Singaporeans who are stakeholders in this small island. A good figure maybe a multiple of the btm 20% of the population. The majority of the pple they handle, not the elite top few. NOT the GDP bcoz the GDP bears little relation to the income of the majority of the population. Many citizens do not benefit from a higher GDP. They see no improvement to their standard of living or income..

They are NOT better off than they were 10 years ago.

[limlim]

3Boys:

limlim:

The perspective is extra-ordinary high pay does not imply extra-ordinary talent. (that is separate issue from the right \"character\" )

And likewise, low pay does not imply commitment to a cause.

Case A
High pay -> Maybe he's in for the money, maybe he's not.

Case B
Low pay -> Maybe he's take it as a calling ,a privilege, to serve. Maybe he's not.

Case A, if he's in for the money, too bad. The people WILL suffer. If not, fine.

Case B, if he's committed, great, the people benefits. If not, well at worst he's a mediocre performer.. But, no matter what, he is in a position closer to the average citizen, and not isolated in some ivory towers.

I feel that maybe ministers and MPs should be given some benefits, but not by way of obscene salaries..

The benefits could be free public transport for them and their families (Trains, buses). Maybe free access to amusement parks etc.. as recognition of they contribution. This brings them closer to the people too.

Going to exotic places OUTSIDE of Singapore for holidays very often (bcoz they can well afford it by way of their obscene salaries) isn't going to bring them close to the pple. If they are not close to the pple, they do not deserve the people's vote and mandate.

[Strparent]

3Boys:

I've not had this much fun in a long time. Now that there is actually a reasonable opposition in parliament, I can actually be the naysayer and heckler from the stands, as opposed to constantly defending the actions of my favoured party.


This role-reversal is actually quite refreshing, much easier to be a critic than the opposite.

:evil: :evil: :evil: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

just wanna karchiao and jojok a bit sini and jojok a bit sana la ...

yes, it's always good to be able to be on either side of the fence, so just poke a little at the side with the majority herd, just to inspire some rebuttals. More views can be explored in this way. You bery jahat leh

anyway, KIONG HEE HUAT ZAI to you and yr 3 boys :celebrate:

limlim:

benchmark to other countries then.

You still don't get it, do you?

I'm not asking anyone to accept the figure I posted. It is meant to be an example only.

limlim

He gets your view la, . Just want to see how far your stand or argument goes :evil: .

anyway ministers WILL get an overdue pay cut. One step at a time.

CNY coming, relax enjoy, be happy. KONG XI FA ZAI to you too :celebrate:

[Oppsgal]

Should have more \"responsibilities\" given... give deadlines to fully solve the problems, if deadlines to solve problem are not met, have their full monthly salary deducted :?


For each \"honest mistake\" made, have them kick out :? For bonus should also based on their performance.

Just my thoughts.