Parents, not enrichment centres, are key to result

[Chenonceau]

Laura02:

I think all parents should ask themselves what is the aim of their children's education. I would guess that the standard answer would be that they want their children to get good grades so that the kids will have a good job in future.

My next question would then be : are \"good grades\" all that they want their kids to learn. And what do they think is a \"good job\"? Is it a job where they are trained to answer examination papers? From the employers' stand point, which staff is more valuable? The one with creative and innovative solutions, or the yes-man/ woman who is great at memorising a whole list of stock answers and giving them back - verbatum. From a wider perspective where would the country be if all its working population are trained only to regurgitate \"model answers\", and there are none to lead with \"out of the box\" solutions.

Kekekekeke! Try and be innovative in Math and you may end up like 2ppaamm whose son gave a very out of the box Math working, got the answer right but was marked wrong. 2ppaamm teaches Math in Uni, I think. I think we might have 2ppaaamm (because she kicked up a real stink) to thank for MOE's willingness to accept at PSLE different methods.

Kekekekeke! Try and be innovative in your Creative Writing and you will get zero for content.

[Chenonceau]

coast:

:hugs:

Thanks so much, Coast!!

[corneyAmber]

Chenonceau:

Laura02:

I think all parents should ask themselves what is the aim of their children's education. I would guess that the standard answer would be that they want their children to get good grades so that the kids will have a good job in future.

My next question would then be : are \"good grades\" all that they want their kids to learn. And what do they think is a \"good job\"? Is it a job where they are trained to answer examination papers? From the employers' stand point, which staff is more valuable? The one with creative and innovative solutions, or the yes-man/ woman who is great at memorising a whole list of stock answers and giving them back - verbatum. From a wider perspective where would the country be if all its working population are trained only to regurgitate \"model answers\", and there are none to lead with \"out of the box\" solutions.

Kekekekeke! Try and be innovative in Math and you may end up like 2ppaamm whose son gave a very out of the box Math working, got the answer right but was marked wrong. 2ppaamm teaches Math in Uni, I think. I think we might have 2ppaaamm (because she kicked up a real stink) to thank for MOE's willingness to accept at PSLE different methods.

Kekekekeke! Try and be innovative in your Creative Writing and you will get zero for content.

Just to put some things in perspective,
1) first bold line, MOE has always accepted all mathematically correct solutions since inception but the problem is school. Some schools forced children to use the taught method to answer the questions. While I appreciate their reasoning is to test if the children understand the method, I think it is wrong to kill understanding and creative thinking. So I still go with MOE, any mathematically correct answer is acceptable whether in school tests or exams and in PSLE, just to be consistent and not confuse the children. If adults can be confused, I am sure the children would be confused.

2) Yes for Creative Writing, we have been warned by a teacher to write regular approach and don't try to write anything fantasy related even though it is not out of point and integrated with the story. I may disagree but for the sake of scoring well, just do it!!!! (at least for now) How I love Nike's tagline!

[Chenonceau]

ksi:

Just to put some things in perspective,
1) first bold line, MOE has always accepted all mathematically correct solutions since slice bread but the problem is school.

You prolly know better than me. I didn't really sit up and pay attention to my son's academics till P4. But you know what, DS' math teacher told me that it wasn't always the case. Maybe I heard wrong.

You are completely sure hah?

[corneyAmber]

Chenonceau:

ksi:

Just to put some things in perspective,
1) first bold line, MOE has always accepted all mathematically correct solutions since slice bread but the problem is school.

You prolly know better than me. I didn't really sit up and pay attention to my son's academics till P4. But you know what, DS' math teacher told me that it wasn't always the case. Maybe I heard wrong.

You are completely sure hah?

There was an official note published by MOE back in 200x and I remember when I took the PSLE(mata wear shorts day), there was no constraint on methods either.

You prolly did not hear it wrong either, perhaps the teacher is too young to know what happened in \"mata wear shorts\" days.

[Chenonceau]

ksi:

Yes for Creative Writing, we have been warned by a teacher to write regular approach and don't try to write anything fantasy related even though it is not out of point and integrated with the story. I may disagree but for the sake of scoring well, just do it!!!! (at least for now) How I love Nike's tagline!

Yup... just do it... that's what we are doing too. Took us a while to realise what was needed (because Teacher wouldn't say) but now we know so (thanks to KSP) we just do it lor...

[Chenonceau]

ksi:

Chenonceau:

[quote=\"ksi\"]
Just to put some things in perspective,
1) first bold line, MOE has always accepted all mathematically correct solutions since slice bread but the problem is school.

You prolly know better than me. I didn't really sit up and pay attention to my son's academics till P4. But you know what, DS' math teacher told me that it wasn't always the case. Maybe I heard wrong.

You are completely sure hah?

There was an official note published by MOE back in 200x and I remember when I took the PSLE(mata wear shorts day), there was no constraint on methods either.

You prolly did not hear it wrong either, perhaps the teacher is too young to know what happened in \"mata wear shorts\" days. [/quote]So confusing... but I dun care lah... I just need to know that it is accepted for 2012 PSLE. So now, it's a matter of Just Do It!! Thank you Nike!

[corneyAmber]

Chenonceau:

ksi:

Yes for Creative Writing, we have been warned by a teacher to write regular approach and don't try to write anything fantasy related even though it is not out of point and integrated with the story. I may disagree but for the sake of scoring well, just do it!!!! (at least for now) How I love Nike's tagline!

Yup... just do it... that's what we are doing too. Took us a while to realise what was needed (because Teacher wouldn't say) but now we know so (thanks to KSP) we just do it lor...

Compo writing a little tricky to debate as it is subjective, sometimes it even depends on the marker's mood.... :sad:

[buds]

HAPPYH:

I am not against stellar programme. My question is just \"all the schools/teachers adapting this programme is competent?\"

No worries. No one is insinuating you are against the programme. Perhaps your experience with the programme or perhaps a lack of understanding of how it's being covered is vague hence the question of competency and why the need to have or get English the assortment of English assessment books.

The other issue is of course a subjective one ... teacher's ability to execute.

Nope, not all schools have taken up the programme yet. Respective teachers need to go for the required training to understand.. plan.. and deliver the lessons effectively first. These teachers in fact have their work cut out for them. But in the schools we have had experience with, they come together to share resources across the table and the level heads will discuss & agree to one fixed booklet for the same level. Only the activities vary between classes as some teachers find they can do more and the big ticket activities like craft exhibitions.. written expression showcase.. learning journeys.. (etc) are more of a collaborative effort. This way the workload is shared.. the experience.. the sharing and the learning process is really about teamwork and not who churns out the best worksheets. Of course the higher ability classes tend to have a wee extra since when it comes to concepts, they are faster and can do more within the same curriculum time... however that being said it still encompasses around the stellar book content.

In fact the schools my girls have attended have only just started as well like about 2 or 3 years (if i'm not mistaken)... but the implementation has been great success in my frank opinion. My girls and their teachers have a lot of fun and the integration makes for a more wholesome child than just one who is good in the subject on its own. The integration is seamless that they prepare children for oral examinations, show and tell, written expression (etc) all within curriculum hours (for P1 & P2).

HAPPYH:

I know the teachers are going for few classes on how to introduce or deliver the info to the students. May be if the school or teacher is good (!) enough to prepare such materials or deliver the info properly, yes, the stellar programme is good.

So technically speaking, it's not really the programme lah right?
The human touch is the essential factor.

Apart from the training/workshop sessions/hours they have to complete, they do have help from their peers and not reali just left to float on their own lar... again based on experience with the schools my girls' have attended.

HAPPYH:

But the problem is \"If you cover everything under the sun form P1 by the name of stellar, I dont know whether it will give the in-depth knowledge or not.\"

Parents receive all the content that will be taught to all the students for the semester within the 1st few days of school.. test dates too.. like the SA dates as well as all the spelling & dictation lists plus their respective test dates.. This too inclusive of the story book to be covered for the Stellar Programme and its variables.. ie. grammar.. vocab.. creative writing.. (etc) So we are informed beforehand all the components teachers are teaching the children. Very systematic and yes, seriously can cover everything under the sun.

My girls come home after school and tell me the stuff they did in class and at times in the canteen or science garden for the collaborative/joint projects within levels.. they once had ice-cream making session and most creative sandwich contest based on their Stellar Programme content. For the most creative sandwich contest, teachers and students were to vote for the one they find most creatively crafted and of course the most scrumptious... together with the sandwich samples all the children had fun preparing they learnt.. (1) hygiene during food preparation i.e.. wear plastic gloves.. (2) learnt how to market/sell their sandwich to garner more votes.. (3) explain the nutritive values of their sandwich to further market why their sandwich should win Most Creative Sandwich title.. The school sponsored a trophy all in the name of fun and my DD1's class came out tops & her whole class went up to scream on-stage to receive the trophy! She had a lotta stuff to share that day for sure. Photography department took pictures and put them up along the school walls. Nice... :please:

HAPPYH:

As I mentioned earlier I am not against stellar programme; at the sametime, I am just giving my own view.

Rest assured.. we understand. :hugs: This thread has OT-ed :offtopic: by miiiilllleeees liao and almost turning into yet another MOE and teacher slamming thread that i just have to share a different side of the coin. There ARE always two sides ain't it? Not everything's all bad or all good. Everyone's experiences are different and i too am delighted to share the wonderful ones from ours. :celebrate:

Chenonceau:

HappyH... It's ok. :hugs: There are many schools who don't have Stellar. Parents who don't know how to teach, will buy assessment books. Understandable. Not every school is as well run as Buds'... not every child is in GEP.

Yep.. right.

The one in W'lands is my girls' 2nd primary school since it's more practical after we shifted to our very first crib... (away from the ILs... at last! ) :siam:.. Logistics would be a killer with me ferrying two plus baby in tow all at the same time. :faint: The other sch was in CCK.. both schools are neighborhood schools and during registration phase were the least popular. Schools nobody seem to want. But my family find are rare gems..

Chenonceau:

These are the schools which will benefit from better textbooks because their Teachers don't write their own materials. These are the schools where perhaps Teachers don't get enough support and therefore would be better able to cope if they subject specialize. There are many such schools judging from parents who PM me, who call, who bring me their kids for evaluation.

Chenonceau.. Subject-specialization happens for my girls at P3. Specific subject teachers will undertake a few different classes under their wings. Where the textbooks are obviously lacking in content these specialized subject teachers come up with their own separately prepared notes to share with the children... all subjects inclusive. ie. Creative Writing phrases or model compos from their peers are copied to be shared and also put up on story board.. Science notes plus additional experiment ideas that can be done at home for fun.. Process skills handouts.. For math, practice papers with detailed (step-by-step) model diagrams explanations.. (etc)

In my friend's school, they organized sessions for parents to understand how teachers teach Maths in class and share the strategies and how to solve Maths problems over a few days of a few hours sessions.

In my girls' previous school they had a session to teach parents Process Skills and what testers look out for in Science exam questions and parents had a go at some of the experiments the children do for their practical tests in school.

HODs of respective levels and subject heads come together to provide content and the presentation itself.

[Chenonceau]

buds:

Rest assured.. we understand. :hugs: This thread has OT-ed :offtopic: by miiiilllleeees liao and almost turning into yet another MOE and teacher slamming thread that i just have to share a different side of the coin. There ARE always two sides ain't it? Not everything's all bad or all good. Everyone's experiences are different and i too am delighted to share the wonderful ones from ours. :celebrate:

We're not trying to bash Teachers. We just want MOE to do something concrete about...
(1) textbooks
(2) teacher support

The suggestions are aimed at helping Teachers too. I think it is not fair to also expect Teachers to WRITE resources. They should be given adequately copious resources to teach with. It is wonderful that your girls have had a great experience but well... it still means that there are under-served populations like those in my DS' school.

buds:

The one in W'lands is my girls' 2nd primary school since it's more practical after we shifted to our very first crib... (away from the ILs... at last! ) :siam:.. Logistics would be a killer with me ferrying two plus baby in tow all at the same time. :faint: The other sch was in CCK.. both schools are neighborhood schools and during registration phase were the least popular. Schools nobody seem to want. But my family find are rare gems..

Yes... so much for people saying that Woodlands is ulu and has no good schools. Some of the best resources I've been able to find are from Woodlands neighbourhood schools.

buds:

Chenonceau.. Subject-specialization happens for my girls at P3. Specific subject teachers will undertake a few different classes under their wings. Where the textbooks are obviously lacking in content these specialized subject teachers come up with their own separately prepared notes to share with the children... all subjects inclusive. ie. Creative Writing phrases or model compos from their peers are copied to be shared and also put up on story board.. Science notes plus additional experiment ideas that can be done at home for fun.. Process skills handouts.. For math, practice papers with detailed (step-by-step) model diagrams explanations.. (etc)

We dun have. Again, it is wonderful that you have this in your school. But... what about schools that dun have? Primary school teachers are supposed to teach EMS. They have no choice if they are asked to. That is the current policy.

We can't just focus on school level and say school principal is good then good. School principal bad then too bad. MOE can't do anything. There must be systemic improvements that can be wrought so as to shore up the quality to under-served populations too?

buds:

In my friend's school, they organized sessions for parents to understand how teachers teach Maths in class and share the strategies and how to solve Maths problems over a few days of a few hours sessions.

In my girls' previous school they had a session to teach parents Process Skills and what testers look out for in Science exam questions and parents had a go at some of the experiments the children do for their practical tests in school.

HODs of respective levels and subject heads come together to provide content and the presentation itself.

DS school organised a 30 minute briefing for Science ... another 30 minute for Science. Parents were just as clueless after than before. Still... there is something wrong when Teachers organise briefings to teach parents how to teach. Teachers should teach. Parents need to earn a living. That needs to be acknowledged throughout the nation, not just in well-run schools like yours.