Parents, not enrichment centres, are key to result

[Lynn2010]

PiggyLalala:

sleepyqueen:

jesschan,

Here is it based on elkniwt's upload:
http://i41.tinypic.com/1z676s4.jpg\">

Just a word of caution, when i said 'simultaneous equations', it does not mean the complicated 'simultaneous equations' like above.
I think the above solution is too complicated for the P6 students to handle.

Sorry to quote old post..... as i was reading page by page with interest.

Is this extracted fr GEP worksheet?? My dd got this sort of qtn last year that drives me crazy. Not that i cant teach her but i told her using simultaneous eqn method for P6 is crazy.... I dont think this sort of qtn will be set for PSLE. I taught her simultaneous eqn and the whole lot and she has wasted 2 wks of Math lesson on this :mad:

[2ppaamm]

Lynn2010:

PiggyLalala:

[quote=\"sleepyqueen\"]jesschan,

Here is it based on elkniwt's upload:
http://i41.tinypic.com/1z676s4.jpg\">

Just a word of caution, when i said 'simultaneous equations', it does not mean the complicated 'simultaneous equations' like above.
I think the above solution is too complicated for the P6 students to handle.

Sorry to quote old post..... as i was reading page by page with interest.

Is this extracted fr GEP worksheet?? My dd got this sort of qtn last year that drives me crazy. Not that i cant teach her but i told her using simultaneous eqn method for P6 is crazy.... I dont think this sort of qtn will be set for PSLE. I taught her simultaneous eqn and the whole lot and she has wasted 2 wks of Math lesson on this :mad:[/quote]Er.... don't stone me har... DS1 and DS2 could solve simultaneous in P1, and DS3 in P3, DD1 and DD2 in P4. Don't need to teach leh... they figured by staring at it (instead of x and y, they were stars and circles). I think they were doing trial and error in their minds. By and by, they could solve the difficult simultaneous on their own, as I show them progressively difficult ones. The method' occur to them as they do more and more trial and error.

That's why I wonder what all these models are about?! School teachers don't like their stare and give answers, but when they reached P6, they somehow knew how to show their working, and they never got penalized for not using models.

[jedamum]

2ppaamm:

Er.... don't stone me har...

[2ppaamm]

2ppaamm:

Er.... don't stone me har... DS1 and DS2 could solve simultaneous in P1, and DS3 in P3, DD1 and DD2 in P4. Don't need to teach leh... they figured by staring at it (instead of x and y, they were stars and circles). I think they were doing trial and error in their minds. By and by, they could solve the difficult simultaneous on their own, as I show them progressively difficult ones. The method' occur to them as they do more and more trial and error.

That's why I wonder what all these models are about?! School teachers don't like their stare and give answers, but when they reached P6, they somehow knew how to show their working, and they never got penalized for not using models.

Sorry, sorry. Take that back. Not no need to teach. It should be not as difficult as it seems to teach. My 2 DDs came back and tell me the school struggled to teach simultaneous at the end of P6 because some questions cannot be solved otherwise. Most students drew a blurr.

To teach simultaneous, you just need to get the students to 'realize' the pattern. If you simply teach a method, then it will take really, really long. So yes, even a young P1 can discover the pattern without being taught, if you show him simple patterns first, and make it more and more difficult with pictures and symbols.

[Nebbermind]

I think the above ‘triangle’ qn looks complicated coz they tried to solve it while the equations are still in fractions. Once these are converted to whole numbers, it’ll be alot easier.

[Chenonceau]

Champion:

ksi:

I have been wondering about these lousy textbooks issues. Why are the current teachers not complaining if it hinders their teaching progress? Is it not more effective for the pro to make this point strongly to MOE? Not that I am condoning the lousy textbooks, I am wondering if the teachers are using computer resources in school to supplement the textbooks which may be unknown to us?

I brought up the issue of the MPAL Science Textbooks to my DD1's Science T - the books have so many colourful pictures and notes are so insufficient that parents have to spend extra :moneyflies: :moneyflies: to get assessment and/or guide books! :mad:

Here is what the teacher replied,\" I understand your concern regarding MPAL Science textbooks. These textbooks are approved books by MOE, basically the textbooks cover the essential concepts pupils are expected to know for each theme and topic. The intention of having less written text in the textbooks is to allow pupils to learn Science in an inquiry way, thus in class, teachers do focus a lot on hands-on activities such as experiments conducted using the workbook.\"

Somehow...somewhere...I still do not agree fully to her reply :skeptical:

(1) Champion, let us note a glaring omission. Teacher didn't say anything about e-resources? I'm not surprised. Those e-resources are as useless as the textbooks. Colourful but so simple that the PSLE will EAT them up and spit no bones. I've seen all the e-resources my son has.

(2) Learn in class through inquiry method? Hmmmm.... so... now the schools are reverting to oral tradition to teach our kids? Strange... because cultures that do that are those who do not possess a system of writing. The Greeks had Homer and Iliad handed down through oral history for a long time but when they developed writing, they wrote these down. We thus have access to Homer and Iliad today. The Malays had the Hang Tuah legends, which have since been written down too. So, we've decided to regress towards the pre-literate era of human history?

(3) If Teachers do experiments etc... in class, and the focus is on rich experiential learning why no video records? No youtube uploads? No video streaming? Or does the system expect that EVERY kid will retain EVERYTHING without review after watching an experiment in class? It's so easy to do videos. Tons of amateurs do videos. Why no videos like these... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzsWP3K6DaQ to teach Science? I am convinced that the current Science syllabus needs to be taught through rich experiential methods. My DS conducts his own experiments at home from books that document experiments and how to do them. For years, I brought DS to the library to borrow science-related videos (even those that may not LOOK anything like the syllabus). He has not done even ONE page of science assessment books. In P5, he was never below top 3 for Science (even without studying because we are so focused on Chinese). We didn't do rich experiential Science learning for the syllabus. For us, it was a nice way of spending Sunday afternoons together. Only now I realise how much time it has bought us for other subjects in PSLE. Rich experiential learning works so well that it is almost NECESSARY for the new Science syllabus.

(4) Nothing stops the system from providing BOTH rich experiential learning in class and still have comprehensive textbooks. Some children learn best through READING. Others need the material for revision. It is good practice to have redundancy. Nothing stops textbooks from coming along with a CD. All the textbooks I teach from have video resources on CD. It has been done before.

Maybe that'll make the upfront costs of textbooks go up? Then parents will complain? But, look at the amount we are paying now for guidebooks? These are hidden costs borne by parents who pay taxes thinking that education in Singapore will be funded by the government. It's ok if you can afford these hidden costs. For those who can't, these guidebooks are over and above textbooks... and are not covered by any subsidy.

(5) When you do an IMPORTANT briefing to your boss or an important client, you also write everything down in a report. Is it our mainstream kids are not important enough? Only GEP has a dedicated branch to write GEP resources?

People complained about Ministerial Pay and housing prices for years before the inertia of the civil service moved to do something this year. Previously, there were excuses after excuses too. Then someone called Flooding, mere Ponding. These \"experts\" need to look halfway good so they tell us \"textbooks are bad because we teach a lot in class\".

It's up to us to believe or not.

With every successive cohort of PSLE parents going through the current system, more and more will realise... It may not be a hot election issue in 2011, but it will be a hot button NEXT election if all the electorate is getting now excuses that aren't even smart to begin with.

[Suz855]

On the subject of textbooks, had a quick chat with my brother whom is a teacher, textbooks are actually written by 3rd parties in accordance to moe syllabus guideline n it is up to the school to choose whichever textbook they want to use for their pupils ( moe only approve )E.g my pal, perfect match n I science for science ....probably it is a good opportunity that resourceful ksp parents come together to work on something n get approve by the moe n our children will then get better resource ......

if we are looking for changes for better resources from moe ( see not their responsibility to write textbook ) pls do not stone me, I do not foresee it will happen in near future

[corneyAmber]

:gloomy:

Suz855:

On the subject of textbooks, had a quick chat with my brother whom is a teacher, textbooks are actually written by 3rd parties in accordance to moe syllabus guideline n it is up to the school to choose whichever textbook they want to use for their pupils ( moe only approve )E.g my pal, perfect match n I science for science ....probably it is a good opportunity that resourceful ksp parents come together to work on something n get approve by the moe n our children will then get better resource ......

if we are looking for changes for better resources from moe ( see not their responsibility to write textbook ) pls do not stone me, I do not foresee it will happen in near future

Actually I agree that with the amount of books in the market, there is no point in reinventing the wheels. If schools or MOE can AT LEAST recommend supplementary materials available in the market and put as optional reference books in the book list, it should suffice. For eg., I keep hearing foreigners buying this book called \"singapore math\", it must be a great book. And why optional?
A. Not all parents are hands on, they simply rely on teachers.
B. Not all kids are able to learn off textbooks alone..so some may find it daunting if it is too thick.
C. Some recommended resources need not be books, it can be interactive resources and typically these may cost a lot so making it an option would be better, like e-tutor?(I am not sure). If there are some difficult concepts to teach I feel it is ok for teachers to ask the students to watch a video repeatedly to understand it. Not everyone can learn something in one seating.

I really think MOE can invest a bit more in USEFUL tech to help the kids. Eg. Video-ing some useful classes with difficult concepts for replay and put on the a secured website accessible by the kids etc. I hear some teachers are buying those portable mics used in pasar malam out of own pocket expenses just to ensure they don't end up with a sore throat at the end of the day. Is it difficult to issue every teacher with one of that as a perk like employees were issued with handphones by private companies so that they could be contactable by clients? If that is extravagant, then have a mic in every classroom and maintain hygiene on the mic as part of cleaning process.

Lastly between textbooks and teachers, I prefer MOE to look into improving the quality of teachers and the terms to perform well, this is actually a tougher task. Once the people are on track, even the worst textbooks will look lovely. If we really give up on teachers, we may just become a nation of \"homeschool\" kids eventually, whether home or in centres outside MOE framework.

I don't know the reference point for the money estimated for solving flood issue in Singapore, I hear it would be 750M, it sounds a lot to layman like me. Perhaps if we have not ignored it for so long, it could be lesser than 750M??

[psle2011mum]

Lastly between textbooks and teachers, I prefer MOE to look into improving the quality of teachers and the terms to perform well, this is actually a tougher task. Once the people are on track, even the worst textbooks will look lovely. If we really give up on teachers, we may just become a nation of \"homeschool\" kids eventually, whether home or in centres outside MOE framework.


[/quote]

:goodpost:

I like this quote :

In a completely rational society, the best of us would aspire to be teachers and the rest of us would have to settle for something less, because passing civilization along from one generation to the next ought to be the highest honor and the highest responsibility anyone could have.

~Lee Iacocca~

A long time ago [maybe not quite as long ago as when mata still wearing shorts but long enough ago], the best of each class joined the faculty and took tenure there; but sadly, the lure of private sector dollars put an end to this; I see this in the education sector too. Any ideas how to reverse the trend? I don't see this trend reversing in my profession because for one the financial gain difference is astronomical. Add the realities of cost of living - you do the math :sad:

[Chenonceau]

ksi:

Actually I agree that with the amount of books in the market, there is no point in reinventing the wheels. If schools or MOE can AT LEAST recommend supplementary materials available in the market and put as optional reference books in the book list, it should suffice. For eg., I keep hearing foreigners buying this book called \"singapore math\", it must be a great book. And why optional?
A. Not all parents are hands on, they simply rely on teachers.
B. Not all kids are able to learn off textbooks alone..so some may find it daunting if it is too thick.
C. Some recommended resources need not be books, it can be interactive resources and typically these may cost a lot so making it an option would be better, like e-tutor?(I am not sure). If there are some difficult concepts to teach I feel it is ok for teachers to ask the students to watch a video repeatedly to understand it. Not everyone can learn something in one seating.

I really think MOE can invest a bit more in USEFUL tech to help the kids. Eg. Video-ing some useful classes with difficult concepts for replay and put on the a secured website accessible by the kids etc. I hear some teachers are buying those portable mics used in pasar malam out of own pocket expenses just to ensure they don't end up with a sore throat at the end of the day. Is it difficult to issue every teacher with one of that as a perk like employees were issued with handphones by private companies so that they could be contactable by clients? If that is extravagant, then have a mic in every classroom and maintain hygiene on the mic as part of cleaning process.

Lastly between textbooks and teachers, I prefer MOE to look into improving the quality of teachers and the terms to perform well, this is actually a tougher task. Once the people are on track, even the worst textbooks will look lovely. If we really give up on teachers, we may just become a nation of \"homeschool\" kids eventually, whether home or in centres outside MOE framework.

I don't know the reference point for the money estimated for solving flood issue in Singapore, I hear it would be 750M, it sounds a lot to layman like me. Perhaps if we have not ignored it for so long, it could be lesser than 750M??

Man! This is a good post! Especially the next bit...

ksi:

Lastly between textbooks and teachers, I prefer MOE to look into improving the quality of teachers and the terms to perform well, this is actually a tougher task. Once the people are on track, even the worst textbooks will look lovely. If we really give up on teachers, we may just become a nation of \"homeschool\" kids eventually, whether home or in centres outside MOE framework.

I was hoping that better textbooks, bibliography, videos etc.... could be a stop-gap measure. It's easier to fix than Teacher quality. I was hoping too that this stop-gap would make life easier for Teachers... and help somewhat in reversing the trend of good Teachers leaving. But really, at the bottom of it all is Teacher quality. At this point though, I do think that we are expecting too much from the Teachers without giving them enough resource support.

I would still like redundancy between materials (videos and whatever) and Teacher EVEN IF Teacher quality goes up a lot.

I know a young ex-MOE scholar who quit to start up a multi-media social enterprise. Why was not use found for this person in MOE who wanted so badly to help the underprivileged that she started her venture? Why was not use found in MOE for this person who masters the intricacies of technology so well that she can make a living from her venture?

What happened? What is happening with MOE management? Putting aside all question of politics, what are the civil servants in MOE doing?