Lack of drive in Singaporean students a worry
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insider:
You are wise
I still stick back to my 'principle' of raising kids - expectation 60 - 70/100, the time needed to score for the next 30 - 40 marks pls used them to go and play, go and do something that they are interested.
Even if not graduating from 'elite' schools or from NUS or whatever, I am kind of very sure my kids can out beat many elite kids subsequently in later part of life coz they possess certain inner qualities that cannot be learnt from books alone. Maybe these qualities summarised as the 'drive' that the thread is talking about...
!
日本教育家的爸爸：60分就合格！
有名的日本教育家铃木镇一，致力于学龄前的儿童教育，每年会培养出700个小提琴神童，他奉行的音乐才能教育被欧美有识之士命名为“莫扎特教育风暴”。他回想自己的成就时，非常感激他那与众不同的父亲。
铃木上小学时，日本也是靠考试成绩来考察学生，学生的学习压力都很大。一次，铃木考试只得了60分，老师狠狠地批评了他。忐忑不安的铃木羞愧万分，回家后垂头丧气。
“傻孩子，老师对你的批评是不对的。”父亲平静而和蔼地安慰他。“你每科都考到60分就可以了。”
儿子非常讶异：“60分怎么行呢？”
父亲回答：“60分怎么就不行呢？能考100分当然很好，但考够60分就说明你及格了，及格就是合格。既然合格了，还有必要为第一第二那些虚名浪费时间和精力吗？求知是人世间最大的欢乐，绝不是为了争第一，如果你想到的只是分数，那求知不就成了一种苦难吗？”
爸爸的一番话卸掉了铃木镇一的困扰，从此，铃木花时间完成学校的课业后，将很多时间都用来阅读自己喜欢的各类书籍，或者去野外观察、游玩。虽然他的学习成绩不是同学中最好的，但他读过的书却是别人的很多倍，他观察大自然的时间也是别人的很多倍。这些激发了他强烈的求知欲和想象力，也培养了良好的思维方式。 -
I think two key forces are at work here:
1) If children are relentlessly pressured to achieve by parents and teachers using the carrot of a 'good job' and the stick of 'being a failure' then all their motivation to learn will be generated by external influences and they will not learn how to generate intrinsic motivation - a desire to learn for understanding, for personal improvement, for self satisfaction. the consequences of which will be that when the pressure is released, they achieve the goal, get their qualification, their job, they are left with no strategies of self-motivation and no drive. When we as parents or teachers provide our children with the pressure and the drive to succeed we are robbing them of the opportunity to learn how to motivate themselves - we are making them helpless.
2) When we focus on the idea of our children's 'intelligence' as being the determinant of success (praising being smart, boasting about IQ) we are focusing their minds on something over which they have no control. So when they succeed they think of themselves as smart and when they don't they suspect that they might be not smart enough. If on the other hand we focus our praise on the effort they are putting in and the strategies they are using we are focusing their minds on things that they have control over - they can always do more or do differently. So when they have a learning problem or lack of success they will be inclined to try new strategies and techniques, to put in more effort and to persist.
Are you familiar with professor Carol Dweck's work on what she calls 'Mindsets'? Here is a good video explaining the ideas - worth a look http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTXrV0_3UjY -
Lance G. King:
:goodpost:I think two key forces are at work here:
1) If children are relentlessly pressured to achieve by parents and teachers using the carrot of a 'good job' and the stick of 'being a failure' then all their motivation to learn will be generated by external influences and they will not learn how to generate intrinsic motivation - a desire to learn for understanding, for personal improvement, for self satisfaction. the consequences of which will be that when the pressure is released, they achieve the goal, get their qualification, their job, they are left with no strategies of self-motivation and no drive. When we as parents or teachers provide our children with the pressure and the drive to succeed we are robbing them of the opportunity to learn how to motivate themselves - we are making them helpless.
2) When we focus on the idea of our children's 'intelligence' as being the determinant of success (praising being smart, boasting about IQ) we are focusing their minds on something over which they have no control. So when they succeed they think of themselves as smart and when they don't they suspect that they might be not smart enough. If on the other hand we focus our praise on the effort they are putting in and the strategies they are using we are focusing their minds on things that they have control over - they can always do more or do differently. So when they have a learning problem or lack of success they will be inclined to try new strategies and techniques, to put in more effort and to persist.
Are you familiar with professor Carol Dweck's work on what she calls 'Mindsets'? Here is a good video explaining the ideas - worth a look http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTXrV0_3UjY
When children do what their parents want, where got motivation? If children are allowed to do what they want, they'll give their all and you'll see the \"DRIVE\"
The earlier the parents realise this, the less heartache there'll be. :siam: One very good example is my DS1. The only time he studied was just few months before PSLE and O Level. Can pass good liao. The rest of his time was spent on soccer and NPCC (in sec school). I've got to buy a new pair of school shoes every month cos there would be a big hole due to his 'soccer practice' after school. :faint: He loved NPCC so much that he 'aspire' to be a police officer. I told him it's his life and as long as it's not illegal, he got my support. Now, he's doing well in the force and after realising that he needs a degree to move up in this society, he's studying part-time. I've never seen him worked so hard before. He aimed to get distinction for every module. On top of that, he's in one of the soccer teams in the force and plays in inter-competitions. :rahrah: :boogie:
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tutormum:
It is very heartwarming to hear such drive coming from the kids themselves.
When children do what their parents want, where got motivation? If children are allowed to do what they want, they'll give their all and you'll see the \"DRIVE\" The earlier the parents realise this, the less heartache there'll be. :siam: One very good example is my DS1. The only time he studied was just few months before PSLE and O Level. Can pass good liao. The rest of his time was spent on soccer and NPCC (in sec school). I've got to buy a new pair of school shoes every month cos there would be a big hole due to his 'soccer practice' after school. :faint: He loved NPCC so much that he 'aspire' to be a police officer. I told him it's his life and as long as it's not illegal, he got my support. Now, he's doing well in the force and after realising that he needs a degree to move up in this society, he's studying part-time. I've never seen him worked so hard before. He aimed to get distinction for every module. On top of that, he's in one of the soccer teams in the force and plays in inter-competitions. :rahrah: :boogie:Chenonceau:
:faint: Chenonceau, I feel so sad for the girl too - and I know exactly what you mean by all the hard work that you have done - and the girl's too- going down the drain. Parents are often the whole world to the children when they're young, and it matters most what parents think of them.The Mother said one thing \"If you think my daughter is smart, you should look at my son. My daughter is very slow compared to my son.\" With a sideways glance, I noted the expression on her daughter's face. In one sentence, this Mother undid all that I had done for the daughter over weekly lessons of 2 months.
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Lance G. King:
:goodpost: Interesting post, Lance G. King!
2) When we focus on the idea of our children's 'intelligence' as being the determinant of success (praising being smart, boasting about IQ) we are focusing their minds on something over which they have no control. So when they succeed they think of themselves as smart and when they don't they suspect that they might be not smart enough. If on the other hand we focus our praise on the effort they are putting in and the strategies they are using we are focusing their minds on things that they have control over - they can always do more or do differently. So when they have a learning problem or lack of success they will be inclined to try new strategies and techniques, to put in more effort and to persist.
Are you familiar with professor Carol Dweck's work on what she calls 'Mindsets'? Here is a good video explaining the ideas - worth a look http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTXrV0_3UjY -
Perhaps this is also relevant here:
“I would say the generation of the ‘50s and ‘60s took the plunge into politics without ever calculating the costs of the risk and the benefits to be gained. They were driven by ideology. Today’s generation has no culture and averse to taking political risk. Really, an interest in politics is very necessary for the future. But I cannot blame the present generations, because they see the heavy-handed response by the government to dissenting views, even though they know that these matters involve their daily lives.
So the result is that we have produced a younger generation who are meek and therefore very calculating. They are less independent-thinking and lack in initiative. It does not bode well for the emergence of future leaders in politics and business. Robots and computers can be programmed or if you like, can be trained. But the trouble, of course, is that computers lack soul and what we need in Singapore is soul. Because it is soul that makes society.”
--by the late Dr. Toh Chin Chye, In a rare public interview in 1997 Radio Corporation of Singapore
(source: http://theonlinecitizen.com/2012/02/dr-toh-chin-chye-one-of-the-architects-of-modern-singapore/)
I've always thought the political system has something to do with this. When something that matters our daily lives doesn't matter anymore, what else does matter? Have we been paralyzing ourselves? -
http://www.tnp.sg/content/pampered-and-just-plain-lazy
\"...In the latest edition of NTU tri-weekly newspaper The Nanyang Chronicle, first-year communication student Goh Jiayi wrote a commentary about how the culture of over-reliance on maids has affected the ability of young Singaporeans to be independent. The 19-year-old Singaporean claimed she knows of friends who get their maids to go to their hostel rooms regularly...\"
:slapshead: :stupid: -
I don’t think a lack of drive in students can be blamed on the government. All that is doing is once again externalising the reason and not having students take responsibility themselves. And I don’t think it is a parent’s job or a teacher’s job to motivate students, simply because they cannot do it. All any external person can ever do is influence the environmental variables like approval and reinforcement to create conditions where a students own internal motivation is likely to arise.
Rather than trying to motivate students we need to teach them how to motivate themselves. Self-motivation is a skill that anyone can learn but it needs to be taught and then reinforced by parents and teachers not doing it for students but demonstrating them how to do it for themselves. -
Lance G. King:
Lance G. King, you've brought up a very valid point. Question is, how many people actually do that compared to those who go straight into tuition when the grades slip/ hit low? When a child's grades slip, they are automatically put into supplementary class / tuition, and the streaming is such that it groups students with similar grades together, resulting in social stigma. How much time are our students given time to 'motivate themselves'? How much time do they really have on their own to do self reflection? What do parents/ teachers do when they spot their child/ a child day-dreaming with an opened text book in front of them? Do you think they will ask them what the child is thinking or to ask them to \"stop dreaming and get back to study?\"
Rather than trying to motivate students we need to teach them how to motivate themselves. Self-motivation is a skill that anyone can learn but it needs to be taught and then reinforced by parents and teachers not doing it for students but demonstrating them how to do it for themselves.
I want to agree with you, but reality is that it isn't happening. There's a lot of pressure in our society, and the system does play a part. It takes lots of self-reflection, patience, questioning of policies and their impact in people/society, resilience, the willingness to question and a personal will to think different. Yet again, how many people have the luxury of time (and possibly money) to do that? The result for many is to just follow the herd or get trampled on. Just my take. -
concern2:
:goodpost: Most of the time will stream into a lousy class with a lousy teacher!!!! :slapshead: :stupid:
Lance G. King, you've brought up a very valid point. Question is, how many people actually do that compared to those who go straight into tuition when the grades slip/ hit low? When a child's grades slip, they are automatically put into supplementary class / tuition, and the streaming is such that it groups students with similar grades together, resulting in social stigma. How much time are our students given time to 'motivate themselves'? How much time do they really have on their own to do self reflection? What do parents/ teachers do when they spot their child/ a child day-dreaming with an opened text book in front of them? Do you think they will ask them what the child is thinking or to ask them to \"stop dreaming and get back to study?\"Lance G. King:
Rather than trying to motivate students we need to teach them how to motivate themselves. Self-motivation is a skill that anyone can learn but it needs to be taught and then reinforced by parents and teachers not doing it for students but demonstrating them how to do it for themselves.
I want to agree with you, but reality is that it isn't happening. There's a lot of pressure in our society, and the system does play a part. It takes lots of self-reflection, patience, questioning of policies and their impact in people/society, resilience, the willingness to question and a personal will to think different. Yet again, how many people have the luxury of time (and possibly money) to do that? The result for many is to just follow the herd or get trampled on. Just my take.
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