Intellect or Age Peer?
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2ppaamm:
It's the part on parents enriching kids that I am confused. For parents who can't or don't know how to enrich their kids, wouldn't it mean turning to external sources like enrichment centers to advance or enrich the kids?
O no, did I sound like I am encouraging children to go for enrichment? Not at all! Explain later... daughter needs help...
(Btw, i'm not against advancing kids. I must confess that I do advance my kids intentionally by providing them with materials such as books and DVDs).
I'm currently a little dense up in the snow mountain with a flu. So, bear with me if you find my questions less than intellectual.
From your various posts, i have the impression that you disapprove of local enrichment classes and education system. Did I get that right? If seen from another perspective, wouldn't online classes be another form of enrichment classes that parents can enroll their kids for academic advancement, albeit for different academic subjects? And by trying to accumulate credit points within a short period in order to gain entrance to university, how does such a system differ from our current system of grade chasing to the \"best schools\"?
I bear no malice, just wondering aloud.
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chamonix:
I think that if you bring your child to a high competence in writing overall (and do maintenance work through the years), you can wait till P6 to train to the rubrics. However, if the child is not of good competence in writing, no amount of rubrics training will help. For example, if the child has no vocabulary, no sense of the dramatic, it's no use telling the child in P6 that his compos are too imaginative - won't help his marks. One of the rubrics in P6 is Content Realism. Come on... how fun is it to write a story that is completely realistic when you're a little kid? So... when Little Boy was small, I never required realism. Instead, I celebrated every evidence of the imaginative. Then in P6, it's no effort bringing in Content Realism. One shouldn't be spending years training a kid to lack imagination.
I can totally understand this part, which is why I have been thinking about sending them for writing classes. You see, I can't and don't know how to teach nor drill them on the rubrics of compo writing required by school. Maybe, overtime they will learn to. But I too want to save them from unnecessary pains.
Oops, shouldn't this be in the thread on \"parents, not enrichment centers, is the key\"?
Can the moderators please move the discussions unrelated to giftedness to the relevant threads? Thanks!
I enjoy writing and I know how to write. My kids and I had great fun writing together. They read my writing and I read theirs, without marking. Just read and laughed. I also like Science and trivia, so there were plenty of such related materials in the house. In PSLE year, both these subjects are low stress subjects. Hardly need to spend time because it isn't too difficult in P6 to layer on the rubrics once your competence is already there.
The subjects that trip us up (fail) are those we never bothered to have fun with - Chinese and Math. I don't like Math and so we never played with that. I had very few materials in Math at home. So Math materials were all meant for school, no extras beyond because I found it not fun. Now I know better, I consciously go about getting Math materials because even if I dun find it fun, I realise he does (and that all this fun adds up to school results). Also he is older now and can actually ask me to buy stuff he likes. -
Whenever I tell people that my children are radically accelerated, they automatically think that I hot house the kids. I just wonder why people think that way. Is the only way to learn the hard way? Screaming at unmotivated kids, covering boring syllabus and keeping away from the outdoors… such strange beliefs. Perhaps they have read too many stories about how some parents would torture their kids into achieving beyond what they are able?
I had a totally different experience with my children. I think my kids enjoyed their education far more than any average Singaporean child. Three did the PSLE, but there was no tuition, no supplement, no scolding from me, no assessment, no nothing. The results were not top of Singapore, but they got to the secondary schools they wanted. These same three kids also finished their Grade 8 by P5, and these same three kids became national athletes. And they enjoyed their education, which include sports, arts and academic. The key is the motivation and looking after their self-esteem and passion.
So, if we were to let our kids learn with their intellectual peers, they will be motivated. Because they will be in the right environment, with people they can relate to, talking about things they all love. If I had kept my son in JC2 this year, I’m not sure if he would end up like his best friend who ended up asking for a diagnosis from a psychologist so that he could go to an international school. He simply hated his elitist secondary school. My son loves his education and loves his course in the uni and has started his masters course in a topic he loves.
If I were to let my daughter stay in her sec 4 class, she might still come home everyday complaining about her Geography teacher who scolds the class (a top class, btw) for a whole 30 minutes and got those few students who did not do their homework to stay outside the classroom, and gave instructions to the rest not to share notes with this group. She told me she thought the teacher was immature and did not understand what she was trying to achieve. I couldn’t say a thing, because my daughter was right, but I have to ask her to respect authorities. In addition, she would have burnt her Dec hols, and probably her June 2012 hols studying for ‘O’ levels. Instead, she is enjoying her course in the uni doing research on a topic of her passion, making clay models to sell on her blog, and earn some pocket money doing sports coaching.
If I were to let my younger daughter stay in the Sec 3 this year, she would have missed out her chance to explore photography, music, arts and even statistics. Topics she has started to love. She would have spent half of last year mugging and learning how to be exam smart so that she too could get into a top class in Sec 3. Instead, I let her explore what she wanted, and she managed to travel, and joined a national team from another country to train in a sport she loves and shared their joy when the team qualified for London 2012, made new friends, and understood a totally different culture through sports and arts. If she had stayed with her age peers, she would not have won a scholarship to start her undergrad studies end this month.
If I had let myself believe that teachers are right, and that my son is ONLY gifted in Maths, we would not have explored expo writing at undergrad levels, he would still be stuck doing cliche compo for P6, and would not have learnt how to write programs and make websites - something he is now so passionate about. He would not have made animations and developed interesting cartoons to sell. He would still be in depression, trying to understand what is wrong with him. He would not have explored going into competitive sports, or learning how to horse ride. He would not have believed he is just normal.
Allowing my kids to learn beyond what the schools tell me what they are able. Allowing them to explore beyond what the public education system believes is norm, and allowing them to learn with their intellect peers has allowed my kids to see things beyond what others can even imagine. And the nice little perk is that their self-esteems get little boosts.
I will always be grateful for the resources I found. But they are by no means by accident. I spent sleepless nights, weekends after weekends, thousands after thousands looking for solutions, solutions I was told don’t exist. I dare not say I have found all the solutions, but I am glad I have devised a system that works, that gives my children an education that I believe best suits them. For them, it is definitely to work with intellectual peers, and we work hard to help them keep friends that are age peers.
What about you? What do you want your kid to remember about their education, about their childhood? Enrichment centers and straight As? I do not have a simple Singapore dream for my kids. Mine was much, much bigger. Perhaps I am greedy and straight A’s are not good enough. -
2ppaamm:
son in JC2 this year, I'm not sure if he would end up like his best friend who ended up asking for a diagnosis from a psychologist so that he could go to an international school. He simply hated his elitist secondary school.
From secondary school onwards, as long as parents can afford, going to international school is one option for many students who cannot fit the MOE system. Why does his best friend need a diagnosis report to go international school? :? -
ksi:
No, I don't think every child can opt to go to an international school. A Singaporean can only go to either ACS(I) or SJI(I) or CNIS? These are local international schools. For the rest of the international schools, I was told you'll have to get permission from MOE to enroll in them. I am not able to find any website stating this, but when I visited the schools, that's what they told me. Anyway, my son's friend who is perfectly fine, went to get a psychologist to state that he is asperger's and then got permission to enroll in an international-international school (not one of these local ones).2ppaamm:
son in JC2 this year, I'm not sure if he would end up like his best friend who ended up asking for a diagnosis from a psychologist so that he could go to an international school. He simply hated his elitist secondary school.
From secondary school onwards, as long as parents can afford, going to international school is one option for many students who cannot fit the MOE system. Why does his best friend need a diagnosis report to go international school? :? -
O, got a link that talks about this. Those 3 international arms of local schools are not considered 'international' schools. http://www.asiaone.com/News/Education/Story/A1Story20071122-37914.html
Found the quote from MOE so like MOE, \"But the MOE stressed that the Government prefers Singaporeans to attend local schools for the purpose of building a national identity.
'Singaporean children should be educated in an environment that embraces the history and culture of Singapore, in particular, the multi-racial and multi-religious characteristics of Singapore'
International schools are less multi-racial and multi-religious??? It is by now a common knowledge why Singapore government makes it so difficult for locals, especially gifted boys to enroll in international schools. They want to 'create that national identity' (brain wash?). So even when the kid has problems, it is very difficult to get approved for international school. Easier for girls. -
2ppaamm:
Anyway, my son's friend who is perfectly fine, went to get a psychologist to state that he is asperger's and then got permission to enroll in an international-international school (not one of these local ones).
I kept asking an educational psychologist what good is it to get a formal diagnosis for the kid who displayed behaviours on the ASD spectrum? Why nowadays it seems that once a kid could not really \"fit\" into pre-schools or schools or the \"kwai kwai\" type would be deemed \"special\" and thus parents got to go see psychologist to see if anything wrong (most times the pyschologist also seems clueless only know how to ask a lot of questions).
This educational pyschologist said it is mainly for the School System, to help to get deferment in Chinese, to get more understanding and help from the teachers. I thought to myself, how about to defer NS? :evil: :evil: -
Chenonceau:
Content realism - my friend shared with me how her then P6 son's writing on terrorism was considered unrealistic. How can that be when security was stepped up and tightened following the aftermath of Sept 11 attack? I was going through some compo guides. One book particularly emphasizes on what one should not write about - deaths, terrorist threats etc. It even advises against writing events that stretch over a few days. In short, it is best to conclude the events within the day. :faint:
I think that if you bring your child to a high competence in writing overall (and do maintenance work through the years), you can wait till P6 to train to the rubrics. However, if the child is not of good competence in writing, no amount of rubrics training will help. For example, if the child has no vocabulary, no sense of the dramatic, it's no use telling the child in P6 that his compos are too imaginative - won't help his marks. One of the rubrics in P6 is Content Realism. Come on... how fun is it to write a story that is completely realistic when you're a little kid? So... when Little Boy was small, I never required realism. Instead, I celebrated every evidence of the imaginative. Then in P6, it's no effort bringing in Content Realism. One shouldn't be spending years training a kid to lack in imagination.chamonix:
I can totally understand this part, which is why I have been thinking about sending them for writing classes. You see, I can't and don't know how to teach nor drill them on the rubrics of compo writing required by school. Maybe, overtime they will learn to. But I too want to save them from unnecessary pains.
Oops, shouldn't this be in the thread on \"parents, not enrichment centers, is the key\"?
Can the moderators please move the discussions unrelated to giftedness to the relevant threads? Thanks!
I enjoy writing and I know how to write. My kids and I had great fun writing together. They read my writing and I read theirs, without marking. Just read and laughed. I also like Science and trivia, so there were plenty of such related materials in the house. In PSLE year, both these subjects are low stress subjects. Hardly need to spend time because it isn't too difficult in P6 to layer on the rubrics once your competence is already there.
The subjects that trip us up (fail) are those we never bothered to have fun with - Chinese and Math. I don't like Math and so we never played with that. I had very few materials in Math at home. So Math materials were all meant for school, no extras beyond because I found it not fun. Now I know better, I consciously go about getting Math materials because even if I dun find it fun, I realise he does (and that all this fun adds up to school results). Also he is older now and can actually ask me to buy stuff he likes.
How does your son find the Edward Zaccaro's books?
Both 2ppaamm's and your children are very blessed to have you ladies as mothers. Don't dwell too much on what you didn't do. From what you shared about your son, he is an intelligent, fine young man. Kudos for doing a great job! :rahrah: -
2ppaamm:
ACS International and Hwa Chong International only offers a programme from secondary onwards so this article is talking about children getting into international schools mainly at the primary level which only goes by exception. I suppose that is why statistics from them are left out. At the primary level, MOE needs to be consulted before the children can get out of a local system whereas at secondary, from what I know of my friends' kids, their children can opt to go to the ACSInternational and HCInternational for an IB education without having to subscribe to a MOE secondary school at all.O, got a link that talks about this. Those 3 international arms of local schools are not considered 'international' schools. http://www.asiaone.com/News/Education/Story/A1Story20071122-37914.html
Found the quote from MOE so like MOE, \"But the MOE stressed that the Government prefers Singaporeans to attend local schools for the purpose of building a national identity.
'Singaporean children should be educated in an environment that embraces the history and culture of Singapore, in particular, the multi-racial and multi-religious characteristics of Singapore'
International schools are less multi-racial and multi-religious??? It is by now a common knowledge why Singapore government makes it so difficult for locals, especially gifted boys to enroll in international schools. They want to 'create that national identity' (brain wash?). So even when the kid has problems, it is very difficult to get approved for international school. Easier for girls.
However, it is interesting to note that going to international schools like SAS or UWC at secondary level needs letter from the doctor. -
ksi:
As far as I know or understand, every Singaporean international school applicant needs to get an MOE approval, even in SJI (btw, SJI has a primary school arm and still not covered in this article). The only difference is that the approval is 'automatic' compared to the international/international schools. For example, all the 3 local-international schools cannot accept students below 12 years old, this is laid down by MOE. Also, there is a 'quota' to how many Singaporeans they can take, and often, the kids are put on the waitlist not because they have no space, but because MOE refuse to increase the quota. The MOE is aware of the lack of control on the nationalistic education once a child is immersed in the international school culture. So while MOE does not necessarily control who goes to these local-international schools, it appears they do control the number of Singaporeans going there.
ACS International and Hwa Chong International only offers a programme from secondary onwards so this article is talking about children getting into international schools mainly at the primary level which only goes by exception. I suppose that is why statistics from them are left out. At the primary level, MOE needs to be consulted before the children can get out of a local system whereas at secondary, from what I know of my friends' kids, their children can opt to go to the ACSInternational and HCInternational for an IB education without having to subscribe to a MOE secondary school at all.2ppaamm:
O, got a link that talks about this. Those 3 international arms of local schools are not considered 'international' schools. http://www.asiaone.com/News/Education/Story/A1Story20071122-37914.html
Found the quote from MOE so like MOE, \"But the MOE stressed that the Government prefers Singaporeans to attend local schools for the purpose of building a national identity.
'Singaporean children should be educated in an environment that embraces the history and culture of Singapore, in particular, the multi-racial and multi-religious characteristics of Singapore'
International schools are less multi-racial and multi-religious??? It is by now a common knowledge why Singapore government makes it so difficult for locals, especially gifted boys to enroll in international schools. They want to 'create that national identity' (brain wash?). So even when the kid has problems, it is very difficult to get approved for international school. Easier for girls.
However, it is interesting to note that going to international schools like SAS or UWC at secondary level needs letter from the doctor.
All the 4 international schools (local-international and international-international) I asked told me that the MOE approval is hard to get for my son's (gifted boy) case from experience, but they welcomed a try ($$$ upon application and administration of entrance tests). My son was applying for grade 9, which is Sec 3. I'm not sure why there is a difference between your friend's case. Perhaps you can tell us more so that we can learn from it? I'd like to know more. What is 'subscribe to any MOE school'? I thought once you are in the international schools, you are out of the MOE system? Were your friend's kids overseas for 2 or more years? :?
Btw, MOE is not being consulted, they approve - ultimate authority. Without this approval, the international school cannot enroll the student. I know of a case where the Singaporean child has never attended a Singapore school, but is gifted because he had won many awards overseas, and studied overseas. When he came back, MOE disapproved him going to an international school. So he was forced to go to a local school, and he really could not get used to the Singapore system. So even for kids who were away for more than 2 years, it is difficult, especially if you are a gifted boy.
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