Child Underperforms Because Tested Above Cognitive Level

[violin_lover]

janet_lee88:

Chenonceau:

The schools don't TEACH the material BUT they do TEST it.

Yes...what schools DON'T teach, THEY TEST.
All thanks to 'teach less, learn more'. Completely idiotic. Think only MOE has the cheek to use others backsides as their face.

Well say!!!

[KSP]

violin_lover:

janet_lee88:

[quote=\"Chenonceau\"]
The schools don't TEACH the material BUT they do TEST it.

Yes...what schools DON'T teach, THEY TEST.
All thanks to 'teach less, learn more'. Completely idiotic. Think only MOE has the cheek to use others backsides as their face.

Well say!!![/quote]Teach Less, Learn More, Test Even More.....

[Nebbermind]

buds:

I guess because this practice of adding in extra resources that are deemed good listings in the market is highly subjective btwn schools, parents may find it unfair why some school teachers bother to stream the bookshops for good finds for their students and some just don't.

Sekali their colleagues start questioning if they have any share in the publishing house...or related to the authors...etc....

we see this kinda response very often in forums, ya?

[KSP]

I view our education system very similar to the healthcare system. We have gov polyclinics and hospitals but if u want more specialised and better treatment go for private (means more $$ too).

[buds]

buds:

Personal experiences are what separates many n I am trying to grasp the frustrations of many from the small not-so-pleasant experiences we've had. Just that most times issues of whatever kind have been resolved quickly n positively btwn teachers and/or HODs/Principal.


But I do agree tt our system is not world class.

With the kind of Science textbooks we have, far from it I say..

Funz:

I so agree with this. With DD, I hardly have any issues. Maybe cos she is still in lower Pr. With DS however, I am facing some frustrations. It could be the school, it could be the teacher, it could be due to DS himself. He is only in P1 so I reserve judgement.

Mine in upper primary but still hardly have any issues to date. Ya, P1 still too early to tell but good to observe and monitor. Could be a case of just \"that\" teacher.. could be school.. as long as you can keep him motivated regardless of what he comments on the goings-on in class/school. :hugs:

Funz:

I like that MOE has done away with exams for P1 and 2, wish it could be done away with all the way to P4 and if I want to be idealistic, no PSLE at all.

You wished!

Aniwaes, yes i loike it too that they've done away with that for mostly P1s.

Funz:

I like the introduction of Stellar for teaching English.

Yes! Yes! I love love love the use of Stellar and cannot rave about it enough! The students learn so much more, they learn soft skills and presentation skills... reali goes beyond just teaching structured English components textbook style.

Then again, subjective to teacher bah.

Stellar books/big books come with some prepared materials and the rest are *teacher-prepared materials (*if they add on). :nailbite:

Funz:

Models for math, however, is driving me nuts.

Same.. :siao:

Funz:

The move to single session is also something that I am in favour of, would be better if they can mandate that all schools start only at 8am and school buses will have to follow that schedule. I wish they will start Science at P1 and not only at P3 :yikes:

YES TO BOTH! :celebrate:

Thankfully, the Montessori preschool curriculum covers extensively even until Geography. And a really hands-on one at that too! Heng arh.

Funz:

For now, I do really see the teach less learn more thing working where DD is concerned. I see DD's school doing away with rote learning and drilling and more experiential learning. I see more emphasis on verbal and presentation skills, on reasoning and thinking skills. So far, I have not yet experienced the testing beyond cognitive level or what has been taught. Then again, like I say, DD is only in P3.

Then our #2 is same age, Funz. It works for us too, yes, even at P3 now. It has gotten more challenging and the teachers are more anal abt how they answer OE Comprehension these days which i love and also give extra focus on punctuation (often overlooked) and also beginning synthesis (jiejie started synthesis at P4).

Both of them have never been tested beyond cognitive level as well.

Whatever has been taught will be tested... and parents are informed that there a certain number of star* questions which are there meant to sift the creme of the crop. Not frequently exposed questions in class but have been shown how to do. Guess this is meant for streaming purposes. But parents are informed that it's fine if students cannot get them right.

Funz:

Then when I look at DS, I'm trying to reconcile the 2 experiences. Stellar according to DS is totally different from what DD had experienced. His school/teacher still does a fair bit of rote work and they believe in homework. To date, not much emphasis on verbal/preso skills (aka show & tell). I am still hoping that since it is only P1 and we are only into the 2nd mth, what they are doing is laying foundation and things will get interesting for DS soon.

Mine has homework on and off, which is ok with me as it will prep her for the heavier workload in P4.

Funz:

So far, my kids are pulling band 1 grades on most of their mini tests so I don't feel so strongly about this issue.

Same same oso.. The mini tests are very helpful cos i can jump in with some pumping in case i see some lapse or some concept problem. Easier to tackle if they stumble upon obstacles in this mini tests as compared to no tests at all and get choked to death at SA1 results. :faint:

Funz:

Give me another year or 2 and I may be on a similar war path as Chen, then again, maybe not, it all boils down to what we experience with our kids.

Yes... i actually scared :nailbite: to be in this thread... *gulp* war path is quite an apt description.. *gulp* .. because my path has different bridge as we have come to terms with.. *bigger gulp* .. but if the war path does eventually benefit children all over the nation with standardized everything, then it'd be a fruitful path.. after all i still have one more tiger to go thru the primary school journey.

But now i siam :siam: first..

Chenonceau dahling.. i'm just sharing the other side of the bridge experience here orh.. don't flame my tree. :please:

:xedfingers:

PS. Pssst.. DD1's Math teacher showing some colour and hubs is :mad: and :rant: each time there's Maths homework and because he is more impatient than me i'm sure he'd be flamin' posts if he knew this thread exists. I'm gonna give the teacher some time before she gets into those helluva crappy mondays syndrome of mine. :torchme:

DD1's teacher... you've been cautioned. :nunchuk:

[doodbug]

buds:

buds:

Personal experiences are what separates many n I am trying to grasp the frustrations of many from the small not-so-pleasant experiences we've had. Just that most times issues of whatever kind have been resolved quickly n positively btwn teachers and/or HODs/Principal.


But I do agree tt our system is not world class.

With the kind of Science textbooks we have, far from it I say..

Funz:

I so agree with this. With DD, I hardly have any issues. Maybe cos she is still in lower Pr. With DS however, I am facing some frustrations. It could be the school, it could be the teacher, it could be due to DS himself. He is only in P1 so I reserve judgement.

Mine in upper primary but still hardly have any issues to date. Ya, P1 still too early to tell but good to observe and monitor. Could be a case of just \"that\" teacher.. could be school.. as long as you can keep him motivated regardless of what he comments on the goings-on in class/school. :hugs:

Funz:

I like that MOE has done away with exams for P1 and 2, wish it could be done away with all the way to P4 and if I want to be idealistic, no PSLE at all.

You wished!

Aniwaes, yes i loike it too that they've done away with that for mostly P1s.

Funz:

I like the introduction of Stellar for teaching English.

Yes! Yes! I love love love the use of Stellar and cannot rave about it enough! The students learn so much more, they learn soft skills and presentation skills... reali goes beyond just teaching structured English components textbook style.

Then again, subjective to teacher bah.

Stellar books/big books come with some prepared materials and the rest are *teacher-prepared materials (*if they add on). :nailbite:

Funz:

Models for math, however, is driving me nuts.

Same.. :siao:

Funz:

The move to single session is also something that I am in favour of, would be better if they can mandate that all schools start only at 8am and school buses will have to follow that schedule. I wish they will start Science at P1 and not only at P3 :yikes:

YES TO BOTH! :celebrate:

Funz:

For now, I do really see the teach less learn more thing working where DD is concerned. I see DD's school doing away with rote learning and drilling and more experiential learning. I see more emphasis on verbal and presentation skills, on reasoning and thinking skills. So far, I have not yet experienced the testing beyond cognitive level or what has been taught. Then again, like I say, DD is only in P3.

Then our #2 is same age, Funz. It works for us too, yes, even at P3 now. It has gotten more challenging and the teachers are more anal abt how they answer OE Comprehension these days which i love and also give extra focus on punctuation (often overlooked) and also beginning synthesis (jiejie started synthesis at P4).

Both of them have never been tested beyond cognitive level as well.

Whatever has been taught will be tested... and parents are informed that there a certain number of star* questions which are there meant to sift the creme of the crop. Not frequently exposed questions in class but have been shown how to do. Guess this is meant for streaming purposes. But parents are informed that it's fine if students cannot get them right.

Funz:

Then when I look at DS, I'm trying to reconcile the 2 experiences. Stellar according to DS is totally different from what DD had experienced. His school/teacher still does a fair bit of rote work and they believe in homework. To date, not much emphasis on verbal/preso skills (aka show & tell). I am still hoping that since it is only P1 and we are only into the 2nd mth, what they are doing is laying foundation and things will get interesting for DS soon.

Mine has homework on and off, which is ok with me as it will prep her for the heavier workload in P4.

Funz:

So far, my kids are pulling band 1 grades on most of their mini tests so I don't feel so strongly about this issue.

Same same oso.. The mini tests are very helpful cos i can jump in with some pumping in case i see some lapse or some concept problem. Easier to tackle if they stumble upon obstacles in this mini tests as compared to no tests at all and get choked to death at SA1 results. :faint:

Funz:

Give me another year or 2 and I may be on a similar war path as Chen, then again, maybe not, it all boils down to what we experience with our kids.

Yes... i actually scared :nailbite: to be in this thread... *gulp* war path is quite an apt description.. *gulp* .. because my path has different bridge as we have come to terms with.. *bigger gulp* .. but if the war path does eventually benefit children all over the nation with standardized everything, then it'd be a fruitful path.. after all i still have one more tiger to go thru the primary school journey.

But now i siam :siam: first..

Chenonceau dahling.. i'm just sharing the other side of the bridge experience here orh.. don't flame my tree. :please:

:xedfingers:

PS. Pssst.. DD1's Math teacher showing some colour and hubs is :mad: and :rant: each time there's Maths homework and because he is more impatient than me i'm sure he'd be flamin' posts if he knew this thread exists. I'm gonna give the teacher some time before she gets into those helluva crappy mondays syndrome of mine. :torchme:

DD1's teacher... you've been cautioned. :nunchuk:

It's certainly nice to hear positive experiences with the education system too! It's very encouraging - and helps give parents confidence that their children will manage alright. No war here in KSP lah!!

[doodbug]

My impression of STELLAR is that there is much potential in the program, to incalculate an appreciation for the Language, to hone technical grammatical skills, and it exposes children to a range of vocabulary. However, correct me if I am wrong, the concern with STELLAR is the uneven application or adoption of this program across the schools, or even across the different cohorts within a school. In my son’s school, the STELLAR booklets used every year are different. I have no problems with the materials that my son receives or is using; however an upper Primary kid’s mommy does not like the STELLAR system at all, because the materials for her kid’s level are much weaker.

[Chenonceau]

Buds... I know you've had great experiences. I know also you know how to manage Teachers... and schools. It doesn't mean the system has no problems. We're not talking about the same thing so we can actually agree. You see your tree and it is a beautiful tree. I am trying to see the forest.


I agree you have a lovely tree. I agree with that there are many lovely trees around just like yours... and many are unknown neighbourhood schools. But there are many many sick trees in the forest too.

Ads such as the following don't happen if the SYSTEM is robust.
http://i42.tinypic.com/1t379v.jpg\">



Further, you have stated that your school WRITES good materials. My questions are...
(1) Should teachers be expected to TEACH, MARK, COUNSEL... and WRITE?
(2) Should teachers test beyond what they teach?
(3) How many schools run Stellar?
(4) How many teachers run Stellar the way it should be run?

It's no use talking about single trees (your tree and your friends' trees or the GEP special tree) when so many other trees in the forest are sick. If tomorrow, your school Principal were replaced, and a lousy Principal came in and thus, your kids had to go through a hard time, then what'll you do? Put your kids in the school your current Principal goes to?

My DS has no Stellar. His English teacher makes spelling mistakes that HE does not make. His Chinese teacher asks the class to contribute tuition materials for sharing. His Math teacher says \"This kind of questions, we have not covered\" but that exact type of question was asked in the exam 2 weeks later.

Your tree is not sick, but it could get sick unless there are systemic mechanisms to strengthen every school and every teacher NO MATTER where in the country.

My DS' school had a great Principal 7 years ago. The compo materials that he was given in P3 and P4 are about as old. DS gets no Chinese compo materials AT ALL. The school doesn't WRITE them. Principals move around. If or when your school gets a lousy Principal who hires prostitutes and believes in teaching from the textbooks only etc... what would you do? Go and manage the Principal? What is happening to me and my DS... psle2011mum... beanbear... janet... fifiyeo... peony... pixiedust can well happen to you.

It just takes one change of Principal. Unless there are other non-human strengtheners of the system.
(1) better textbooks
(2) better policies on teaching and testing
(3) e-sharing platform for teachers

I am not trying to flame you. But if we don't keep the pressure up, a sick forest will just get more sick simply because people in MOE believe it is a world class forest. So buds, it's not you.

[Nebbermind]

buds:

Funz:

So far, my kids are pulling band 1 grades on most of their mini tests so I don't feel so strongly about this issue.

Same same oso.. The mini tests are very helpful cos i can jump in with some pumping in case i see some lapse or some concept problem. Easier to tackle if they stumble upon obstacles in this mini tests as compared to no tests at all and get choked to death at SA1 results. :faint:

Buds

Enjoy your sharing!

I believe they shd be ablt to get high band2 or band one if they have been able to complete their daily work on their own. Most schools will not have that many 'difficult questions' esp during CAs

[jedamum]

doodbug:

My impression of STELLAR is that there is much potential in the program, to incalculate an appreciation for the Language, to hone technical grammatical skills, and it exposes children to a range of vocabulary. However, correct me if I am wrong, the concern with STELLAR is the uneven application or adoption of this program across the schools, or even across the different cohorts within a school. In my son's school, the STELLAR booklets used every year are different. I have no problems with the materials that my son receives or is using; however an upper Primary kid's mommy does not like the STELLAR system at all, because the materials for her kid's level are much weaker.

:goodpost:
i have seen the Stellar worksheets of my nephew's sch and my boy's sch last year and the standard was distinctively different.