MOE Relooking P1 registration - Too much priority to alumni
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limlim:
Every villager pay $x for the school.
But hor.. ask you hor.. You pay for your kid's education only OR the whole village pay for most of it?
If the rest of the village pays most of it..
then why should they let you have priority? :evil:
we shd not forget that Govt schools are funded by all the tax payers.. not only alumni.. even thou they have contributed in 1 way or the other.
Alumni, being also a villager, also pays $x. On top of that:
1) he (or parents) pays $y donation for help school building / faciliaties improvement.
2) He, together with the rest of his classmates (with teachers & parents help) study hard and indirectly build up strong academic performance of school.
3) where there are certain talents, he spends extra time and effort to participate in national / international competitions and put the school in pride of place amongst other leading competing institutions.
4) He participates in school-lead social / community events - representing his school in contributing back to the community and the less privileged.
5) He does this for 6 years.
Now back to our non-alumni villager who pays $x, ... what else did he contribute to the school? -
Lyddon:
Not that he chose not to do (1) to (5), but just that he was never given a chance to contribute to the school.
Every villager pay $x for the school.limlim:
But hor.. ask you hor.. You pay for your kid's education only OR the whole village pay for most of it?
If the rest of the village pays most of it..
then why should they let you have priority? :evil:
we shd not forget that Govt schools are funded by all the tax payers.. not only alumni.. even thou they have contributed in 1 way or the other.
Alumni, being also a villager, also pays $x. On top of that:
1) he (or parents) pays $y donation for help school building / faciliaties improvement.
2) He, together with the rest of his classmates (with teachers & parents help) study hard and indirectly build up strong academic performance of school.
3) where there are certain talents, he spends extra time and effort to participate in national / international competitions and put the school in pride of place amongst other leading competing institutions.
4) He participates in school-lead social / community events - representing his school in contributing back to the community and the less privileged.
5) He does this for 6 years.
Now back to our non-alumni villager who pays $x, ... what else did he contribute to the school? -
limlim:
Note that I did not mention there are 100 families or 100 children planning to enrol. The demand across the whole of singapore is anybody's guess. I also mention the only priority is based on distance. No phase 1, 2A, and 2B.
For the purpose of discussion, let's assume there is 100 vacancies every year.Lyddon:
Here's a good example of someone buying a property near a desired \"popular\" school to gain \"higher\" chance of enroling his child in.
For simplicity of illustration, imagine:
1) The school in question is the No.1 Top performing school in singapore. (top PSLE, Top GEP, top in everything)
2) there are only 100 properties within the 1km radius of the school, and,
3) there are 100 Pri.1 vacancies in that school, and
4) Priority based solely on distance only.
If priority is based solely on distance, and nothing else... the above is likely to happen ... to a lesser extremem, of course.
You arrive at your own conclusion based on the above.
I would safety conclude that there will be significant number of variances available to others after all those who wants to enroll in P1 in the vicinity have done so..
Why, bcoz NOT all the 100 families have kids going to P1 every year!
if all these families \"stop at 2\" (assume), either they take up 20% of vacancies every year, and exhaust all the demand within 10 years (leaving 80% to others every year for 10yrs, 100% thereafter).. or, they take up 40% of vacancies every year, and exhaust all the demand within 5 years (leaving 60% to others every year for 5yrs, 100% thereafter).. OR they take up 80% of vacancies every year, and exhaust all the demand within 2 years (leaving >=20% to others every year for 3yrs, 100% thereafter).. Is there a cause for concern?? really??????????
Consider the above scenario again for Alumni. The blanket is now over the whole of Singapore.. I could safety assume that the P2A vacancies would highly possible be fully taken up leaving ~0% for others, even those staying at the door step, for each and every year!Lyddon:
All school are the same..For simplicity of illustration, imagine:
Lyddon:
Distance over connections.. anytime.You arrive at your own conclusion based on the above.
If there are only 100 of such properties available for sale right now, next to this top school.
Say there are 150 families who want their only child to enrol in this school. They are all going to try to out-bid each other for the 100 properties.
At the end, 100 parents paid $1mil for each of the 100 properties and their children got into Pri 1 in that school. The other 50 families / children tries to find another school for Pri1.
Next year (year 2), (assuming same national birth rate and same population)another group of 150 families want their only child to enrol to this top school. However, only 60 out of 100 families are willing to selling their $1mil property. The other 40 families do not want to sell due to convenience of proximity to school. Now we have 150 parents trying to out-bid each other for 60 properties. Properties will surely sell for more than $1mil, say ... $1.2mil. 60 children enrol to Pri1 via 1km priority. the other 90 ballot for 40 Pri.1 places for outside 1km.
Year 3, same scenario. New group of 150 families, and same 60 properties up for sale ... for $1.3mil each (remember last year was $1.2mil).
Year 4, ... same thing happens.
Every year, 60% of the Pri.1 cohort will come from families that are more and more well-off.
Now, extrapolate this when school has enrolment by top priority of 0-1km and then 2nd priority of 1-2km. Same thing will happen to the larger number of properties (maybe 200-400) in the 1-2km radius (though property price will be less and increase will be less).
Next, imagine the 150 families mentioned are the current Phase 2C applicants. If MOE decides to place applicants in Phase 2A and 2B under 0-1 km / 1-2km priority AND put a quota of XX% on them. This will result in additional families (on top of the 150 families) going to bid for those properties in 0-1km and 1-2km.
What will happen to the demographics of students in the school?
Of course, prices will not increase indefinately as it will be dependent other factors (like size of property, traffic conditions etc) wrt other properties in singapore.
The ultra-high net worth families in singapore may not necessary want to enrol their child/children in public school and may have other alternatives. -
chamonix:
Not that he chose not to do (1) to (5), but just that he was never given a chance to contribute to the school.
For most singaporeans, contribution of (1) to (5) is done ... in another school. It's their decision whether they want to apply to their alma mater or not.
If it's because their school has closed and he has lost his alma mater... I am sorry that his contributions has come to naught. -
Lyddon:
Though I am a non-alumni (primary school) villager, I would still support the cause of alumni if the same privilege is accorded to alumni of secondary schools, junior colleges, and maybe even tertiary institutions.
Alumni, being also a villager, also pays $x. On top of that:
1) he (or parents) pays $y donation for help school building / faciliaties improvement.
2) He, together with the rest of his classmates (with teachers & parents help) study hard and indirectly build up strong academic performance of school.
3) where there are certain talents, he spends extra time and effort to participate in national / international competitions and put the school in pride of place amongst other leading competing institutions.
4) He participates in school-lead social / community events - representing his school in contributing back to the community and the less privileged.
5) He does this for 6 years.
Now back to our non-alumni villager who pays $x, ... what else did he contribute to the school?
By virtue of the argument above, my children should be entitled the same treatment as the alumni in primary schools when they embarked on their next level of education, shouldn't they?
After all, all the schools we went to are our alma maters, our nourishing mothers, aren't they?
That will save us from the PSLE nightmare, the unhealthy competition, stress, unnecessary acceleration that resulted from sending kids to enrichment centres/tuitions, etc.
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I have nothing against the alumni/clans-related/PV having privileges in primary one school registration.
I have nothing against those alumni/clans-related/PV who stay far away yet willing to drive their kids to certain schools.
After all, who is to comment if they don't mind spending extra time/money to ferry their kids to a school further away? It is their choice.
What I cannot understand is:
Why couldn't my child join a school less than 2km away from home?
I had to enrol him in a school more than 2km away, certainly not by choice.
(Just because there are some who think 2km - 5km is a reasonable distance to travel to and fro?)
Why was I forced to spend more money (petrol) and time to drive my child to a school further away?
I did mind very much spending these unnecessary money and time.
(Just because there are those who can afford that kind of money and time?)
Why couldn't my child have extra 15 minutes of sleep?
Instead he had to wake up earlier to get ready for school.
(Just because there are some who think it is fine for their kids to sleep less or on the car or skip breakfast?)
For the record, we had been staying at the same address since he was born. Yet, we could not enjoy the benefits of staying close to the school (not even a branded school) because of alumni and church-related applicants.
Unfairness or fairness of the system? Just our luck?
So, if all the connections are scrapped or accorded less importance, I don't see any fairness or unfairness involved either. If there are any unfavourable changes made to certain groups, it's just unfortunate (for the group/groups) that the Ministry of Education has decided other attributes should take precedence over parental's past contributions or connections.
But, knowing our government, it's quite unlikely there will be any drastic changes. At least not for the immediate future. I'll be awfully surprised if there's a major haul in the primary one school registration exercise this year. -
limlim:
I like the analogy above and thought of another possible example to share for friendly discussion:
Very nice analogy!!
But hor.. ask you hor.. You pay for your kid's education only OR the whole village pay for most of it?
If the rest of the village pays most of it..
then why should they let you have priority? :evil:
we shd not forget that Govt schools are funded by all the tax payers.. not only alumni.. even thou they have contributed in 1 way or the other.
Think our Public Housing (eg HDB). It is build by government, using tax payers money (whole village), to provide affordable housing for its citizen. Without it and if all houses are build and sold by private developer, some may not be able to afford it in their lifetime. So we are appreciative.
But I notice these Public Housing (not sure if 100% but I know most) are leasehold (capped) 99 years. Why not make it Freehold so the first generation that bought the flat, lived in it for many years, bring in the furniture, paint it every 3 years, have party in the house, clean the house everyday, raise fund to repair the house etc.....since these dwellers have done so much work for the house, shouldn't they deserve to own this house forever so that they could pass the house on to their offsprings?
How come over here it is not: one generation pay and lived in it so their offsprings gets \"automatic\" timeless unconditional right over the ownership and entitlement of this house?
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chamonix:
See? Just because u are not alumni of a school u wanted, u are asking qns on unfairness relating to distance to a pri school near ur hse. Everyone here has his/her own agenda. :evil:
Though I am a non-alumni (primary school) villager, I would still support the cause of alumni if the same privilege is accorded to alumni of secondary schools, junior colleges, and maybe even tertiary institutions.
By virtue of the argument above, my children should be entitled the same treatment as the alumni in primary schools when they embarked on their next level of education, shouldn't they? -
CactusInDesert:
My post merely reflects whatever the alumni supporters deem as fine aren't necessarily fine for others. That's where the 'unfairness' comes into picture for us. (If you want to look at it from a distance vs alumni perspective, I can't stop you either.)
See? Just because u are not alumni of a school u wanted, u are asking qns on unfairness relating to distance to a pri school near ur hse. Everyone here has his/her own agenda. :evil:chamonix:
Though I am a non-alumni (primary school) villager, I would still support the cause of alumni if the same privilege is accorded to alumni of secondary schools, junior colleges, and maybe even tertiary institutions.
By virtue of the argument above, my children should be entitled the same treatment as the alumni in primary schools when they embarked on their next level of education, shouldn't they?
On our part, we have never felt any bitterness. To us, school A is just as good/bad as school B lah.
You are right on one issue - it's all about self-interest in this registration matter. There is no real basis to preserve any particular group. :evil: -
CactusInDesert:
That is because schools are not privately owned. Fair enough that some priority and privileges is to be given to those who put in relatively more effort than their neighbour but when these priority and privileges start to become unreasonable and is done at the expense of another possibly deserving citizen family , it then becomes everybody's business (whether it is about their own agenda or not) because these schools are not privately owned. :evil:
See? Just because u are not alumni of a school u wanted, u are asking qns on unfairness relating to distance to a pri school near ur hse. Everyone here has his/her own agenda. :evil:chamonix:
Though I am a non-alumni (primary school) villager, I would still support the cause of alumni if the same privilege is accorded to alumni of secondary schools, junior colleges, and maybe even tertiary institutions.
By virtue of the argument above, my children should be entitled the same treatment as the alumni in primary schools when they embarked on their next level of education, shouldn't they?
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